June 2016 - DeTomaso - detomasolist.com

Fw: [#HL-V7138] Copyright ownership of posts to Internet Forum???
by Ken Green 26 Jun '16

26 Jun '16

First, the email that got this started was from June 9th, it is not a new additional email. Around that time I sent and email to the Electronic Frontier Foundation which is specifically into similar issues: Electronic Frontier Foundation I apologize, but I sat on their reply for a couple weeks. There are links for anyone having the time and inclination. Because they specialize in this area, it is likely that the links are to current law. I think a major point is that everyone on the forum was aware that it is expected that people will reply, and the original post will be repeated. Additionally, I'm pretty sure Mr. Shortt replied to many posts, and thus reposted others material. Ken ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "info(a)eff.org" <info(a)eff.org> To: kgreen(a)averillandgreen.com Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [#HL-V7138] Copyright ownership of posts to Internet Forum??? Hi Kenneth, Thanks for writing to us! You may find the following links helpful: http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/risks-associated-publication http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/protecting-yourself-against-copyright-claim… http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/website-permissions/transferring-infor… Additionally, you may want to look into fair use of copyrighted material as well. Here are some resources: https://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/IP http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/fair-use http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/four-factors/#educational_fai… http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html http://www.teachingcopyright.org/handout/fair-use-faq Hope this helps! Best, Electronic Frontier Foundation (415) 436-9333 info(a)eff.org Become a Member! https://www.eff.org/support On Thu, 09 Jun 2016, kgreen(a)averillandgreen.com wrote: > Hi, > I do patent and trademark prosecution, very little copyright work, and > no litigation. I am on a car related Internet forum, and a problem has > developed due to a member who recently became president of a national > organization, the Pantera Owners Club of America (POCA), and has become a > bit of a tyrant. He had made some pretty bad posts in the past years, > some fairly racist, and has asserted that his old posts are protected by > an implied copyright and that reposting or forwarding them infringes his > copyrights, and has threatened legal action. He has similarly emailed > members of the forum with pretty raunchy language, and demanded that his > emails are not posted. The forum is non-profit and the manager is > not paid for his effort, no member fees, and had not even allowed us to > compensate him for costs he has incurred for maintaining the forum. I > don't think the manager monitors posts, and they are immediately posted. > He just provides the medium for communication. Can you please point me > to the current law regarding ownership of private email, posts to internet > forums and/or bulletin boards? I am not getting paid anything for this > and am just trying to help the guy who is managing the internet forum. > Thank you, Kenneth L. Green Attorney At Law AVERILL & GREEN 14831 Whittier > Blvd.Suite 206 Whittier, CA 90605 (562) 698-8039 (voice) (562) 693-5243 > (FAX) CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail and its attachments are confidential and > may be protected by the attorney-client privilege, attorney work product > doctrine, or other nondisclosure protection. If you believe that it has > been sent to you in error, you may not read, disclose, print, copy, store, > or disseminate the e-mail or any attachments or the information in them. > Please kindly reply to the sender that you have received the message in > error, and then delete it. Thank you. First, the email that got this started was from June 9th, it is not a new additional email. Around that time I sent and email to the Electronic Frontier Foundation which is specifically into similar issues: [1]Electronic Frontier Foundation I apologize, but I sat on their reply for a couple weeks. There are links for anyone having the time and inclination. Because they specialize in this area, it is likely that the links are to current law. I think a major point is that everyone on the forum was aware that it is expected that people will reply, and the original post will be repeated. Additionally, I'm pretty sure Mr. Shortt replied to many posts, and thus reposted others material. Ken ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "info(a)eff.org" <info(a)eff.org> To: kgreen(a)averillandgreen.com Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [#HL-V7138] Copyright ownership of posts to Internet Forum??? Hi Kenneth, Thanks for writing to us! You may find the following links helpful: [2]http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/risks-associated-publication [3]http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/protecting-yourself-against-copyrigh t-claims-based-user-content [4]http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/website-permissions/transferrin g-information/ Additionally, you may want to look into fair use of copyrighted material as well. Here are some resources: [5]https://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/IP [6]http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/fair-use [7]http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/four-factors/#educatio nal_fair_use_guidelines [8]http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html [9]http://www.teachingcopyright.org/handout/fair-use-faq Hope this helps! Best, Electronic Frontier Foundation (415) 436-9333 [10]info(a)eff.org Become a Member! [11]https://www.eff.org/support On Thu, 09 Jun 2016, [12]kgreen(a)averillandgreen.com wrote: > Hi, > I do patent and trademark prosecution, very little copyright work, and > no litigation. I am on a car related Internet forum, and a problem has > developed due to a member who recently became president of a national > organization, the Pantera Owners Club of America (POCA), and has become a > bit of a tyrant. He had made some pretty bad posts in the past years, > some fairly racist, and has asserted that his old posts are protected by > an implied copyright and that reposting or forwarding them infringes his > copyrights, and has threatened legal action. He has similarly emailed > members of the forum with pretty raunchy language, and demanded that his > emails are not posted. The forum is non-profit and the manager is > not paid for his effort, no member fees, and had not even allowed us to > compensate him for costs he has incurred for maintaining the forum. I > don't think the manager monitors posts, and they are immediately posted. > He just provides the medium for communication. Can you please point me > to the current law regarding ownership of private email, posts to internet > forums and/or bulletin boards? I am not getting paid anything for this > and am just trying to help the guy who is managing the internet forum. > Thank you, Kenneth L. Green Attorney At Law AVERILL & GREEN 14831 Whittier > Blvd.Suite 206 Whittier, CA 90605 (562) 698-8039 (voice) (562) 693-5243 > (FAX) CONFIDENTIALITY This e-mail and its attachments are confidential and > may be protected by the attorney-client privilege, attorney work product > doctrine, or other nondisclosure protection. If you believe that it has > been sent to you in error, you may not read, disclose, print, copy, store, > or disseminate the e-mail or any attachments or the information in them. > Please kindly reply to the sender that you have received the message in > error, and then delete it. Thank you. References 1. https://www.eff.org/ 2. http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/risks-associated-publication 3. http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/protecting-yourself-against-copyright-claim… 4. http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/website-permissions/transferring-infor… 5. https://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/IP 6. http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/fair-use 7. http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/four-factors/#educational_fai… 8. http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html 9. http://www.teachingcopyright.org/handout/fair-use-faq 10. mailto:info@eff.org 11. https://www.eff.org/support 12. mailto:kgreen@averillandgreen.com

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Re: [DeTomaso] Good News (for me anyways)
by Larry Finch 26 Jun '16

26 Jun '16

Ll Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.

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Fwd: [SDP] New JOIN url for www.poca.com/join
by John Bennett 26 Jun '16

26 Jun '16

Great membership now only $50! > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Ed Mendez <edducati(a)mac.com> > Subject: [SDP] New JOIN url for www.poca.com/join > Date: 26 June 2016 at 16:25:26 NZST > To: San Diego Panteras <sdpanteras(a)googlegroups.com>, Space City Panteras <SCPOCA(a)yahoogroups.com> > > Please spread the word! > > We have created an easy to remember, simple web address for people to sign up online. > > Simply go to > > www.poca.com/join <http://www.poca.com/join> > > to have people sign up. > > You can sign up people on your smart phone at car shows, events, etc. > > In addition, you can now choose the International option; no matter where you live, and receive a full POCA membership for $50.00 instead of $75.00. What this option gives you is to receive "Digital only" Newsletters and Profiles in full color pdf format. > > Note: If they want posted hardcopies then they would choose the Domestic option for the standard $75.00, > > Don’t forget we have the 3 5 1 program, they more members you get benefits the club and yourself. Details here: > > https://poca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=999896&module_… <https://poca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=999896&module_…> > > Thanks, > > Ed Mendez > > PR Director - POCA > > www.poca.com <http://www.poca.com/> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SDPANTERAS" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sdpanteras+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com <mailto:sdpanteras+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to sdpanteras(a)googlegroups.com <mailto:sdpanteras@googlegroups.com>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. Great membership now only $50! Begin forwarded message: From: Ed Mendez <[1]edducati(a)mac.com> Subject: [SDP] New JOIN url for [2]www.poca.com/join Date: 26 June 2016 at 16:25:26 NZST To: San Diego Panteras <[3]sdpanteras(a)googlegroups.com>, Space City Panteras <[4]SCPOCA(a)yahoogroups.com> Please spread the word! We have created an easy to remember, simple web address for people to sign up online. Simply go to [5]www.poca.com/join to have people sign up. You can sign up people on your smart phone at car shows, events, etc. In addition, you can now choose the International option; no matter where you live, and receive a full POCA membership for $50.00 instead of $75.00. What this option gives you is to receive "Digital only" Newsletters and Profiles in full color pdf format. Note: If they want posted hardcopies then they would choose the Domestic option for the standard $75.00, Don't forget we have the 3 5 1 program, they more members you get benefits the club and yourself. Details here: [6]https://poca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=999896& module_id=225364 Thanks, Ed Mendez PR Director - POCA [7]www.poca.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SDPANTERAS" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [8]sdpanteras+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to [9]sdpanteras(a)googlegroups.com. For more options, visit [10]https://groups.google.com/d/optout. References 1. mailto:edducati@mac.com 2. http://www.poca.com/join 3. mailto:sdpanteras@googlegroups.com 4. mailto:SCPOCA@yahoogroups.com 5. http://www.poca.com/join 6. https://poca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=999896&module_… 7. http://www.poca.com/ 8. mailto:sdpanteras+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com 9. mailto:sdpanteras@googlegroups.com 10. https://groups.google.com/d/optout

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POCA
by gonancy＠juno.com 26 Jun '16

26 Jun '16

Dear Forum, Even though I've just been a lurker and occasional poster and spellcheck nazi on the Forum since its inception, I wanted to put it out to the Pantera Community that I will be letting Judy McCartney know that I am ending my membership in POCA effective immediately. That means my associate member, the Profiles Editor, will be leaving also. Mike has the June issue at the printer's right now. It will be his last issue. As an aside, Mike couldn't even put his own profile on the POCA website, even though he's on the BOD, because he's an associate member, not a "true " member according to whomever it was that he contacted about it. How do you like that? Makes him sound like a second class citizen. It's been a great 25 years, GoNancy Haney P.S. I listened in on the last BOD meeting last week and it was all I could do to keep my mouth shut. A monumental effort on my part. I could not believe my ears sometimes at what MS was saying. He is a real piece of work. ____________________________________________________________ Nextiva vFAX Why Do You Still Have An Old Fax Machine? http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5757934166446134075b2st03vuc

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Rear calliper rebuild kit for a '74
by Michael Barnes 26 Jun '16

26 Jun '16

Has anyone got a contact in the U.K. Who can supply these please? Thanks in advance Michael Sent from my iPad

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Re: [DeTomaso] Door cards.
by John McKee 25 Jun '16

25 Jun '16

Michael, I plan to use this product to replace the door plastic. Thermo-Tec Super Sonic Mats http://www.thermotec.com/products/14700-super-sonic-acoustical-mat.html John -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Michael Barnes Sent: Friday, June 17, 2016 10:14 AM To: Detomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Subject: [DeTomaso] Door cards. Hi all,just fitted a pair of new door mirrors and was in the process of refitting the door cards when I remembered a piece of advice a friends dad gave me forty years ago ( yeah I know) " don't put the plastic back on the door behind the card as it causes condensation and inevitably corrosion" What do you guys think, leave the plastic on or bin it? Thanks for any input Michael Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

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News from Laurie
by laurieferrari＠aol.com 25 Jun '16

25 Jun '16

Get ready! I am delighted to serve as the Interim Profiles Editor in light of Mike Haney's resignation. I am gearing up for interviews with new members, long time members, obtaining details of special cars personalities, projects, compiling auction and sales information, networking with people of interest, and calling on all Chapter Presidents for highlights of your news for a new Chapter Report Section of Profiles. I regret that there has been unrest in the club of late and I aim to be positive and do my utmost to maintain professionalism. I know that decisions for the betterment of POCA have recently been entertained by the Board. One such issue is the choice of printer. Facts have been provided showing that we were offered an $8,000. yearly savings for an improved product from a new printer. For whatever reasoning, Jack DeRyke found this so unacceptable that he resigned even though urged not to do so. This is hard to fathom as it would seem that one's dedication to the Club for so many years would supersede personal interests, most especially when the majority of the Board has voted to try the new printer. This is unfortunate but decisions need to be made democratically and for the betterment of the entire membership. We have a great club made up of incredible people and a bright future ahead with our growing numbers and the many new benefits we are seeing. I encourage you to be congenial and please contact me with your stories, experiences, upgrades, repairs, restorations, pictures; no information is too little. Let's all contribute to a fabulous Profiles issue for the last one of this year. You will find my contact information on the membership information page. My warmest greetings to everyone! Laurie Get ready! I am delighted to serve as the Interim Profiles Editor in light of Mike Haney's resignation. I am gearing up for interviews with new members, long time members, obtaining details of special cars personalities, projects, compiling auction and sales information, networking with people of interest, and calling on all Chapter Presidents for highlights of your news for a new Chapter Report Section of Profiles. I regret that there has been unrest in the club of late and I aim to be positive and do my utmost to maintain professionalism. I know that decisions for the betterment of POCA have recently been entertained by the Board. One such issue is the choice of printer. Facts have been provided showing that we were offered an $8,000. yearly savings for an improved product from a new printer. For whatever reasoning, Jack DeRyke found this so unacceptable that he resigned even though urged not to do so. This is hard to fathom as it would seem that one's dedication to the Club for so many years would supersede personal interests, most especially when the majority of the Board has voted to try the new printer. This is unfortunate but decisions need to be made democratically and for the betterment of the entire membership. We have a great club made up of incredible people and a bright future ahead with our growing numbers and the many new benefits we are seeing. I encourage you to be congenial and please contact me with your stories, experiences, upgrades, repairs, restorations, pictures; no information is too little. Let's all contribute to a fabulous Profiles issue for the last one of this year. You will find my contact information on the membership information page. My warmest greetings to everyone! Laurie

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Re: [DeTomaso] Tech Session
by Charles Engles 25 Jun '16

25 Jun '16

Dear Jeff, Hmmm. I am a computer dope. Try an email to : deTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com You might also try to Google Detomasolist.com, which might have the sign up info. Also, since you were on the old forum, Kurt may have already added you to the new forum with all the rest of the POCA reprobates. You might just try sending an email.. I hope that helps. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles From: JJD1010(a)aol.com [mailto:JJD1010@aol.com] Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 5:35 PM To: cengles(a)cox.net Subject: Re: Tech Session Where do I find the new old forum? In a message dated 6/22/2016 5:35:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cengles(a)cox.net writes: Dear Jeff, Yes, I sent the attachment for the total of, IIRC, $111.33 to Mike DiTucci. I will try to find the pdf and sent it to you directly. Yes, the Old Forum is back despite threats of lawsuit by Mr. Michael Dog-in-the-Manger Shortt. The New Old Forum is good. Mr. Shortt is suffering from mental illness. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles rom: JJD1010(a)aol.com [mailto:JJD1010@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 3:31 PM To: cengles(a)cox.net Subject: Tech Session Chuck, Sorry I missed tech session. Do you have any expenses you want to be reimbursed for? Jeff PS: Did the email forum ever get going again? I sure miss it! Dear Jeff, Hmmm. I am a computer dope. Try an email to : [1]deTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com You might also try to Google Detomasolist.com, which might have the sign up info. Also, since you were on the old forum, Kurt may have already added you to the new forum with all the rest of the POCA reprobates. You might just try sending an email...... I hope that helps. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles From: JJD1010(a)aol.com [mailto:JJD1010@aol.com] Sent: Friday, June 24, 2016 5:35 PM To: cengles(a)cox.net Subject: Re: Tech Session Where do I find the new old forum? In a message dated 6/22/2016 5:35:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [2]cengles(a)cox.net writes: Dear Jeff, Yes, I sent the attachment for the total of, IIRC, $111.33 to Mike DiTucci. I will try to find the pdf and sent it to you directly. Yes, the Old Forum is back despite threats of lawsuit by Mr. Michael Dog-in-the-Manger Shortt. The New Old Forum is good. Mr. Shortt is suffering from mental illness. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles rom: [3]JJD1010(a)aol.com [[4]mailto:JJD1010@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 3:31 PM To: [5]cengles(a)cox.net Subject: Tech Session Chuck, Sorry I missed tech session. Do you have any expenses you want to be reimbursed for? Jeff PS: Did the email forum ever get going again? I sure miss it! References 1. mailto:deTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. mailto:cengles@cox.net 3. mailto:JJD1010@aol.com 4. mailto:JJD1010@aol.com 5. mailto:cengles@cox.net

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Re: [DeTomaso] Good News (for me anyways)
by Christopher Kimball 25 Jun '16

25 Jun '16

I hope not, but the thought is starting to cross my mind more frequently... Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Mike Thomas<mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net> Sent: ‎6/‎25/‎2016 10:21 AM To: 'Christopher Kimball'<mailto:chrisvkimball@msn.com>; 'MyCars'<mailto:mycars@comcast.net>; 'Pantera Owners Club of America'<mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Good News (for me anyways) Yes you do, Chris . . . Well, in one sense at least. Some have said that when you and Pandora came together, that you "really bought the farm this time . . .". So, by that reasoning, selling the farm and selling Pandora could mean one ant the same. I know that is not in your plans . . . Mike -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Kimball Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 9:26 PM To: MyCars <mycars(a)comcast.net>; Pantera Owners Club of America <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Good News (for me anyways) Congrats! I hope I have as much patience to wait for my farm to sell so I can finish my car. Oh, wait; I don't have a farm... Sincerely, Chris > To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > From: mycars(a)comcast.net > Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 21:01:15 -0700 > Subject: [DeTomaso] Good News (for me anyways) > > So I finally got the organic certification for the farm, it has been 2 > years. In the next few weeks I'll be picking & selling a few acres > worth of avocados to a local distributor. > > Now for the Pantera content. Once I get paid for the avocados, I'll be > able to afford to ship my cars (push button Pantera & convertible > Corvette) from Seattle to SoCal, some time mid-summer. Two years of > being separated from my Pantera, I can't wait to tear up some roads. > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed > 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. I hope not, but the thought is starting to cross my mind more frequently... Sent from my Windows Phone __________________________________________________________________ From: [1]Mike Thomas Sent: 6/25/2016 10:21 AM To: [2]'Christopher Kimball'; [3]'MyCars'; [4]'Pantera Owners Club of America' Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Good News (for me anyways) Yes you do, Chris . . . Well, in one sense at least. Some have said that when you and Pandora came together, that you "really bought the farm this time . . .". So, by that reasoning, selling the farm and selling Pandora could mean one ant the same. I know that is not in your plans . . . Mike -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [[5]mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Kimball Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 9:26 PM To: MyCars <mycars(a)comcast.net>; Pantera Owners Club of America <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Good News (for me anyways) Congrats! I hope I have as much patience to wait for my farm to sell so I can finish my car. Oh, wait; I don't have a farm... Sincerely, Chris > To: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > From: mycars(a)comcast.net > Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 21:01:15 -0700 > Subject: [DeTomaso] Good News (for me anyways) > > So I finally got the organic certification for the farm, it has been 2 > years. In the next few weeks I'll be picking & selling a few acres > worth of avocados to a local distributor. > > Now for the Pantera content. Once I get paid for the avocados, I'll be > able to afford to ship my cars (push button Pantera & convertible > Corvette) from Seattle to SoCal, some time mid-summer. Two years of > being separated from my Pantera, I can't wait to tear up some roads. > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed > 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > [6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:mbefthomas@comcast.net 2. mailto:chrisvkimball@msn.com 3. mailto:mycars@comcast.net 4. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 5. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

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Good News (for me anyways)
by MyCars 25 Jun '16

25 Jun '16

So I finally got the organic certification for the farm, it has been 2 years. In the next few weeks I'll be picking & selling a few acres worth of avocados to a local distributor. Now for the Pantera content. Once I get paid for the avocados, I'll be able to afford to ship my cars (push button Pantera & convertible Corvette) from Seattle to SoCal, some time mid-summer. Two years of being separated from my Pantera, I can't wait to tear up some roads.

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