June 2016 - DeTomaso - detomasolist.com

Re: [DeTomaso] Is Laurie's statement truthful?
by RallyFanatic＠aol.com 30 Jun '16

30 Jun '16

In a message dated 6/29/2016 9:15:36 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, forestg(a)att.net writes: John, Say what you will but none of this took place until after Mr. Shortt started reviling people. Maybe you should get more facts before backing someone up.Forest From: John Bennett <jbennett111(a)zoho.com> To: Nathan Giles <nathan.giles(a)ex3.com> Cc: detomaso(a)detomasolist.com; Larry Finch <fresnofinches(a)aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Is Laurie's statement truthful? Thank you Nathan! Oh My God. What is wrong with you people? I didn't realize that this list was about as non Pantera related as it gets. I just joined this Pantera club with my original GTS; yes there is a GT in the VIN, and get subjected to this rhetoric? This has got to be the biggest form of online bullying, and Man-Child like behavior that I have ever witnessed in my life, from all sides! No matter what Mr. Shortt has done in the past, you people who disparage him make you all no better. I was emailed some of his posts from 9 years ago; yes vulgar, and insulting, to say the least; I do not agree, but how pathetic that you have to dig up emails on someone from that long ago to prove your point. I have been sent personal emails from people outlining their grievances, and giving me reasons why I should defect from the club that I just joined? I was notified that some of the chapters are planning to secede from the national club, and that it is the chapter presidents arranging the little coup d'etat. Then this email here slamming a person who just volunteered to be a new editor and letting us know of the shady practice by the previous editors; I now wonder myself if they were on the printers payroll. At least they are gone. No wonder you have these issues, anyone would be abrasive and discontent after getting bullied in this manner. Likewise, Mr Shortt should not be unprofessional and abusive as the representative of a national organization. That is just not acceptable. Curious? Do you all spend every waking hour behind the keyboard of your computers and devise ways to "get back" at someone? Do you sit there and write things about someone from the safety of your home, make accusations, and point fingers because it makes you feel like a man? It is not what men do. There is a list of possible mental disorders that can be the only explanation. Shame on you, and Go Nancy, an absolute peach. Who is destroying the Pantera club? Look within yourselves, and point your fingers inwards. All of you on both sides! Now yes as Nathan so gracelessly stated can we please get back to the cars? Thank you for ruining my first club experience. John Sent using [1]Zoho Mail ---- On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 20:24:37 -0700 Nathan Giles <nathan.giles(a)ex3.com>wrote ---- Can we please get off this and focus on the cars? How much is enough? Nathan Giles > On Jun 29, 2016, at 20:04, Larry Finch via DeTomaso <[2]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > > All, > > Earlier today the new Profiles Editor, Laurie Basile, posted a rather > lengthy email. > > For someone who just last week talked about being "positive", > "congenial" and "professional", I found today's post to exhibit very > little of those qualities. > > But what struck me the strongest was the following written by Laurie: > > "You may recall how the DeRykes published in a Newsletter that Mike Drew did not > intend to run again as Editor of Profiles." > > Hmmmm? Is that true? Seems easy enough to research as I happen to have the perti > nent 2014 newsletters right here on my desk. Let's see if I can find where/when > such a statement was placed in a newsletter, okay? > > First mention of the election was in the August, 2014 newsletter on page #12. Bo > ilerplate text from the Bylaws which outlined the term and duties of the officer > s up for election, followed by a solicitation for candidates. Nothing more. > > Next mention of the election was in the September, 2014 newsletter on page #9. T > hat page included the candidate statements from VP candidate Mike Burnett and Tr > easurer candidate Bob Reid. Providing a candidate's statement is required under > the Bylaws, but no other statements were submitted nor had any other members bee > n nominated for any of the four open positions. The only mention of the Annual E > ditor position in September's newsletter was: > Annual Editor - > Incumbent - Mike Drew, Pantera Club of Northern California (PCNC) > No candidates yet (and no Candidate Statements, either - a Bylaws requir > ement.) > > Next newsletter election mention was just the ballot included in the November is > sue. At the time the ballot was sent to the printers, no one had submitted a can > didate statement for the Annual Editor position. So the ballot included this - > > ANNUAL EDITOR Incumbent chose not to run again > No new candidate > Write-in candidate -------------- > Associate Vote -------------- > > I have personally spoken with my friend Mike Drew and he acknowledges he failed > to submit the required statement. > Thus Mike, in essence, "chose not to run again" by failing to submit his candida > te's statement. > > "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choi > ce." - `Freewill' by Rush, 1980 > > I do not know who composed the election ballot (Election committee or the newsle > tter Editor), but in either case there was not any mis-conduct by the DeRykes, j > ust a ballot that contained a truthful statement; and it was due to a regrettabl > e omission by Mike Drew. > > > Laurie's statement seemed to imply the DeRykes had purposely lied about Mike Dre > w's actions. As outlined above, that is simply not true. > > If you are a POCA member, you can confirm all this by viewing the cited > newsletters which are available for viewing on the new website. > Larry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [3]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. https://www.zoho.com/mail/ 2. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. John, Say what you will but none of this took place until after Mr. Shortt started reviling people. Maybe you should get more facts before backing someone up. Forest __________________________________________________________________ From: John Bennett <jbennett111(a)zoho.com> To: Nathan Giles <nathan.giles(a)ex3.com> Cc: detomaso(a)detomasolist.com; Larry Finch <fresnofinches(a)aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Is Laurie's statement truthful? Thank you Nathan! Oh My God. What is wrong with you people? I didn't realize that this list was about as non Pantera related as it gets. I just joined this Pantera club with my original GTS; yes there is a GT in the VIN, and get subjected to this rhetoric? This has got to be the biggest form of online bullying, and Man-Child like behavior that I have ever witnessed in my life, from all sides! No matter what Mr. Shortt has done in the past, you people who disparage him make you all no better. I was emailed some of his posts from 9 years ago; yes vulgar, and insulting, to say the least; I do not agree, but how pathetic that you have to dig up emails on someone from that long ago to prove your point. I have been sent personal emails from people outlining their grievances, and giving me reasons why I should defect from the club that I just joined? I was notified that some of the chapters are planning to secede from the national club, and that it is the chapter presidents arranging the little coup d'etat. Then this email here slamming a person who just volunteered to be a new editor and letting us know of the shady practice by the previous editors; I now wonder myself if they were on the printers payroll. At least they are gone. No wonder you have these issues, anyone would be abrasive and discontent after getting bullied in this manner. Likewise, Mr Shortt should not be unprofessional and abusive as the representative of a national organization. That is just not acceptable. Curious? Do you all spend every waking hour behind the keyboard of your computers and devise ways to "get back" at someone? Do you sit there and write things about someone from the safety of your home, make accusations, and point fingers because it makes you feel like a man? It is not what men do. There is a list of possible mental disorders that can be the only explanation. Shame on you, and Go Nancy, an absolute peach. Who is destroying the Pantera club? Look within yourselves, and point your fingers inwards. All of you on both sides! Now yes as Nathan so gracelessly stated can we please get back to the cars? Thank you for ruining my first club experience. John Sent using [1]Zoho Mail ---- On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 20:24:37 -0700 Nathan Giles <[1]nathan.giles(a)ex3.com>wrote ---- Can we please get off this and focus on the cars? How much is enough? Nathan Giles > On Jun 29, 2016, at 20:04, Larry Finch via DeTomaso <[2][2]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > > All, > > Earlier today the new Profiles Editor, Laurie Basile, posted a rather > lengthy email. > > For someone who just last week talked about being "positive", > "congenial" and "professional", I found today's post to exhibit very > little of those qualities. > > But what struck me the strongest was the following written by Laurie: > > "You may recall how the DeRykes published in a Newsletter that Mike Drew did not > intend to run again as Editor of Profiles." > > Hmmmm? Is that true? Seems easy enough to research as I happen to have the perti > nent 2014 newsletters right here on my desk. Let's see if I can find where/when > such a statement was placed in a newsletter, okay? > > First mention of the election was in the August, 2014 newsletter on page #12. Bo > ilerplate text from the Bylaws which outlined the term and duties of the officer > s up for election, followed by a solicitation for candidates. Nothing more. > > Next mention of the election was in the September, 2014 newsletter on page #9. T > hat page included the candidate statements from VP candidate Mike Burnett and Tr > easurer candidate Bob Reid. Providing a candidate's statement is required under > the Bylaws, but no other statements were submitted nor had any other members bee > n nominated for any of the four open positions. The only mention of the Annual E > ditor position in September's newsletter was: > Annual Editor - > Incumbent - Mike Drew, Pantera Club of Northern California (PCNC) > No candidates yet (and no Candidate Statements, either - a Bylaws requir > ement.) > > Next newsletter election mention was just the ballot included in the November is > sue. At the time the ballot was sent to the printers, no one had submitted a can > didate statement for the Annual Editor position. So the ballot included this - > > ANNUAL EDITOR Incumbent chose not to run again > No new candidate > Write-in candidate -------------- > Associate Vote -------------- > > I have personally spoken with my friend Mike Drew and he acknowledges he failed > to submit the required statement. > Thus Mike, in essence, "chose not to run again" by failing to submit his candida > te's statement. > > "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choi > ce." - `Freewill' by Rush, 1980 > > I do not know who composed the election ballot (Election committee or the newsle > tter Editor), but in either case there was not any mis-conduct by the DeRykes, j > ust a ballot that contained a truthful statement; and it was due to a regrettabl > e omission by Mike Drew. > > > Laurie's statement seemed to imply the DeRykes had purposely lied about Mike Dre > w's actions. As outlined above, that is simply not true. > > If you are a POCA member, you can confirm all this by viewing the cited > newsletters which are available for viewing on the new website. > Larry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [3][3]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > [4][4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5][5]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [6][6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. [7]https://www.zoho.com/mail/ 2. mailto:[8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:[9]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. mailto:[11]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. [12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [13]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:nathan.giles@ex3.com 2. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 7. https://www.zoho.com/mail/ 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 11. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 13. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. [05] In a message dated 6/29/2016 9:15:36 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, forestg(a)att.net writes: John, Say what you will but none of this took place until after Mr. Shortt started reviling people. Maybe you should get more facts before backing someone up.Forest From: John Bennett <jbennett111(a)zoho.com> To: Nathan Giles <nathan.giles(a)ex3.com> Cc: detomaso(a)detomasolist.com; Larry Finch <fresnofinches(a)aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Is Laurie's statement truthful? Thank you Nathan! Oh My God. What is wrong with you people? I didn't realize that this list was about as non Pantera related as it gets. I just joined this Pantera club with my original GTS; yes there is a GT in the VIN, and get subjected to this rhetoric? This has got to be the biggest form of online bullying, and Man-Child like behavior that I have ever witnessed in my life, from all sides! No matter what Mr. Shortt has done in the past, you people who disparage him make you all no better. I was emailed some of his posts from 9 years ago; yes vulgar, and insulting, to say the least; I do not agree, but how pathetic that you have to dig up emails on someone from that long ago to prove your point. I have been sent personal emails from people outlining their grievances, and giving me reasons why I should defect from the club that I just joined? I was notified that some of the chapters are planning to secede from the national club, and that it is the chapter presidents arranging the little coup d'etat. Then this email here slamming a person who just volunteered to be a new editor and letting us know of the shady practice by the previous editors; I now wonder myself if they were on the printers payroll. At least they are gone. No wonder you have these issues, anyone would be abrasive and discontent after getting bullied in this manner. Likewise, Mr Shortt should not be unprofessional and abusive as the representative of a national organization. That is just not acceptable. Curious? Do you all spend every waking hour behind the keyboard of your computers and devise ways to "get back" at someone? Do you sit there and write things about someone from the safety of your home, make accusations, and point fingers because it makes you feel like a man? It is not what men do. There is a list of possible mental disorders that can be the only explanation. Shame on you, and Go Nancy, an absolute peach. Who is destroying the Pantera club? Look within yourselves, and point your fingers inwards. All of you on both sides! Now yes as Nathan so gracelessly stated can we please get back to the cars? Thank you for ruining my first club experience. John Sent using [1]Zoho Mail ---- On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 20:24:37 -0700 Nathan Giles <nathan.giles(a)ex3.com>wrote ---- Can we please get off this and focus on the cars? How much is enough? Nathan Giles > On Jun 29, 2016, at 20:04, Larry Finch via DeTomaso <[2]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > > All, > > Earlier today the new Profiles Editor, Laurie Basile, posted a rather > lengthy email. > > For someone who just last week talked about being "positive", > "congenial" and "professional", I found today's post to exhibit very > little of those qualities. > > But what struck me the strongest was the following written by Laurie: > > "You may recall how the DeRykes published in a Newsletter that Mike Drew did not > intend to run again as Editor of Profiles." > > Hmmmm? Is that true? Seems easy enough to research as I happen to have the perti > nent 2014 newsletters right here on my desk. Let's see if I can find where/when > such a statement was placed in a newsletter, okay? > > First mention of the election was in the August, 2014 newsletter on page #12. Bo > ilerplate text from the Bylaws which outlined the term and duties of the officer > s up for election, followed by a solicitation for candidates. Nothing more. > > Next mention of the election was in the September, 2014 newsletter on page #9. T > hat page included the candidate statements from VP candidate Mike Burnett and Tr > easurer candidate Bob Reid. Providing a candidate's statement is required under > the Bylaws, but no other statements were submitted nor had any other members bee > n nominated for any of the four open positions. The only mention of the Annual E > ditor position in September's newsletter was: > Annual Editor - > Incumbent - Mike Drew, Pantera Club of Northern California (PCNC) > No candidates yet (and no Candidate Statements, either - a Bylaws requir > ement.) > > Next newsletter election mention was just the ballot included in the November is > sue. At the time the ballot was sent to the printers, no one had submitted a can > didate statement for the Annual Editor position. So the ballot included this - > > ANNUAL EDITOR Incumbent chose not to run again > No new candidate > Write-in candidate -------------- > Associate Vote -------------- > > I have personally spoken with my friend Mike Drew and he acknowledges he failed > to submit the required statement. > Thus Mike, in essence, "chose not to run again" by failing to submit his candida > te's statement. > > "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choi > ce." - `Freewill' by Rush, 1980 > > I do not know who composed the election ballot (Election committee or the newsle > tter Editor), but in either case there was not any mis-conduct by the DeRykes, j > ust a ballot that contained a truthful statement; and it was due to a regrettabl > e omission by Mike Drew. > > > Laurie's statement seemed to imply the DeRykes had purposely lied about Mike Dre > w's actions. As outlined above, that is simply not true. > > If you are a POCA member, you can confirm all this by viewing the cited > newsletters which are available for viewing on the new website. > Larry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [3]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > [4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. https://www.zoho.com/mail/ 2. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. John, Say what you will but none of this took place until after Mr. Shortt started reviling people. Maybe you should get more facts before backing someone up. Forest __________________________________________________________________ From: John Bennett <jbennett111(a)zoho.com> To: Nathan Giles <nathan.giles(a)ex3.com> Cc: detomaso(a)detomasolist.com; Larry Finch <fresnofinches(a)aol.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Is Laurie's statement truthful? Thank you Nathan! Oh My God. What is wrong with you people? I didn't realize that this list was about as non Pantera related as it gets. I just joined this Pantera club with my original GTS; yes there is a GT in the VIN, and get subjected to this rhetoric? This has got to be the biggest form of online bullying, and Man-Child like behavior that I have ever witnessed in my life, from all sides! No matter what Mr. Shortt has done in the past, you people who disparage him make you all no better. I was emailed some of his posts from 9 years ago; yes vulgar, and insulting, to say the least; I do not agree, but how pathetic that you have to dig up emails on someone from that long ago to prove your point. I have been sent personal emails from people outlining their grievances, and giving me reasons why I should defect from the club that I just joined? I was notified that some of the chapters are planning to secede from the national club, and that it is the chapter presidents arranging the little coup d'etat. Then this email here slamming a person who just volunteered to be a new editor and letting us know of the shady practice by the previous editors; I now wonder myself if they were on the printers payroll. At least they are gone. No wonder you have these issues, anyone would be abrasive and discontent after getting bullied in this manner. Likewise, Mr Shortt should not be unprofessional and abusive as the representative of a national organization. That is just not acceptable. Curious? Do you all spend every waking hour behind the keyboard of your computers and devise ways to "get back" at someone? Do you sit there and write things about someone from the safety of your home, make accusations, and point fingers because it makes you feel like a man? It is not what men do. There is a list of possible mental disorders that can be the only explanation. Shame on you, and Go Nancy, an absolute peach. Who is destroying the Pantera club? Look within yourselves, and point your fingers inwards. All of you on both sides! Now yes as Nathan so gracelessly stated can we please get back to the cars? Thank you for ruining my first club experience. John Sent using [1]Zoho Mail ---- On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 20:24:37 -0700 Nathan Giles <[1]nathan.giles(a)ex3.com>wrote ---- Can we please get off this and focus on the cars? How much is enough? Nathan Giles > On Jun 29, 2016, at 20:04, Larry Finch via DeTomaso <[2][2]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > > All, > > Earlier today the new Profiles Editor, Laurie Basile, posted a rather > lengthy email. > > For someone who just last week talked about being "positive", > "congenial" and "professional", I found today's post to exhibit very > little of those qualities. > > But what struck me the strongest was the following written by Laurie: > > "You may recall how the DeRykes published in a Newsletter that Mike Drew did not > intend to run again as Editor of Profiles." > > Hmmmm? Is that true? Seems easy enough to research as I happen to have the perti > nent 2014 newsletters right here on my desk. Let's see if I can find where/when > such a statement was placed in a newsletter, okay? > > First mention of the election was in the August, 2014 newsletter on page #12. Bo > ilerplate text from the Bylaws which outlined the term and duties of the officer > s up for election, followed by a solicitation for candidates. Nothing more. > > Next mention of the election was in the September, 2014 newsletter on page #9. T > hat page included the candidate statements from VP candidate Mike Burnett and Tr > easurer candidate Bob Reid. Providing a candidate's statement is required under > the Bylaws, but no other statements were submitted nor had any other members bee > n nominated for any of the four open positions. The only mention of the Annual E > ditor position in September's newsletter was: > Annual Editor - > Incumbent - Mike Drew, Pantera Club of Northern California (PCNC) > No candidates yet (and no Candidate Statements, either - a Bylaws requir > ement.) > > Next newsletter election mention was just the ballot included in the November is > sue. At the time the ballot was sent to the printers, no one had submitted a can > didate statement for the Annual Editor position. So the ballot included this - > > ANNUAL EDITOR Incumbent chose not to run again > No new candidate > Write-in candidate -------------- > Associate Vote -------------- > > I have personally spoken with my friend Mike Drew and he acknowledges he failed > to submit the required statement. > Thus Mike, in essence, "chose not to run again" by failing to submit his candida > te's statement. > > "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choi > ce." - `Freewill' by Rush, 1980 > > I do not know who composed the election ballot (Election committee or the newsle > tter Editor), but in either case there was not any mis-conduct by the DeRykes, j > ust a ballot that contained a truthful statement; and it was due to a regrettabl > e omission by Mike Drew. > > > Laurie's statement seemed to imply the DeRykes had purposely lied about Mike Dre > w's actions. As outlined above, that is simply not true. > > If you are a POCA member, you can confirm all this by viewing the cited > newsletters which are available for viewing on the new website. > Larry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > [3][3]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > [4][4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [5][5]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [6][6]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. [7]https://www.zoho.com/mail/ 2. mailto:[8]detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:[9]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. mailto:[11]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. [12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [13]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [14]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. References 1. mailto:nathan.giles@ex3.com 2. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 4. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 5. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 7. https://www.zoho.com/mail/ 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 11. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 13. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

1 0

Re: [DeTomaso] Is Laurie's statement truthful?
by RallyFanatic＠aol.com 30 Jun '16

30 Jun '16

You are absolutely correct Larry. I remember everything exactly as you have stated. Facts are facts. Sandi Snyder In a message dated 6/29/2016 8:04:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com writes: All, Earlier today the new Profiles Editor, Laurie Basile, posted a rather lengthy email. For someone who just last week talked about being “positive”, “congenial” and “professional”, I found today’s post to exhibit very little of those qualities. But what struck me the strongest was the following written by Laurie: "You may recall how the DeRykes published in a Newsletter that Mike Drew did not intend to run again as Editor of Profiles.” Hmmmm? Is that true? Seems easy enough to research as I happen to have the pertinent 2014 newsletters right here on my desk. Let’s see if I can find where/when such a statement was placed in a newsletter, okay? First mention of the election was in the August, 2014 newsletter on page #12. Boilerplate text from the Bylaws which outlined the term and duties of the officers up for election, followed by a solicitation for candidates. Nothing more. Next mention of the election was in the September, 2014 newsletter on page #9. That page included the candidate statements from VP candidate Mike Burnett and Treasurer candidate Bob Reid. Providing a candidate's statement is required under the Bylaws, but no other statements were submitted nor had any other members been nominated for any of the four open positions. The only mention of the Annual Editor position in September's newsletter was: Annual Editor - Incumbent - Mike Drew, Pantera Club of Northern California (PCNC) No candidates yet (and no Candidate Statements, either - a Bylaws requirement.) Next newsletter election mention was just the ballot included in the November issue. At the time the ballot was sent to the printers, no one had submitted a candidate statement for the Annual Editor position. So the ballot included this - ANNUAL EDITOR Incumbent chose not to run again No new candidate Write-in candidate ——————— Associate Vote ——————— I have personally spoken with my friend Mike Drew and he acknowledges he failed to submit the required statement. Thus Mike, in essence, "chose not to run again" by failing to submit his candidate's statement. "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.” - ‘Freewill’ by Rush, 1980 I do not know who composed the election ballot (Election committee or the newsletter Editor), but in either case there was not any mis-conduct by the DeRykes, just a ballot that contained a truthful statement; and it was due to a regrettable omission by Mike Drew. Laurie’s statement seemed to imply the DeRykes had purposely lied about Mike Drew’s actions. As outlined above, that is simply not true. If you are a POCA member, you can confirm all this by viewing the cited newsletters which are available for viewing on the new website. Larry All, Earlier today the new Profiles Editor, Laurie Basile, posted a rather lengthy email. For someone who just last week talked about being "positive", "congenial" and "professional", I found today's post to exhibit very little of those qualities. But what struck me the strongest was the following written by Laurie: "You may recall how the DeRykes published in a Newsletter that Mike Drew did not intend to run again as Editor of Profiles." Hmmmm? Is that true? Seems easy enough to research as I happen to have the perti nent 2014 newsletters right here on my desk. Let's see if I can find where/when such a statement was placed in a newsletter, okay? First mention of the election was in the August, 2014 newsletter on page #12. Bo ilerplate text from the Bylaws which outlined the term and duties of the officer s up for election, followed by a solicitation for candidates. Nothing more. Next mention of the election was in the September, 2014 newsletter on page #9. T hat page included the candidate statements from VP candidate Mike Burnett and Tr easurer candidate Bob Reid. Providing a candidate's statement is required under the Bylaws, but no other statements were submitted nor had any other members bee n nominated for any of the four open positions. The only mention of the Annual E ditor position in September's newsletter was: Annual Editor - Incumbent - Mike Drew, Pantera Club of Northern California (PCNC) No candidates yet (and no Candidate Statements, either - a Bylaws requir ement.) Next newsletter election mention was just the ballot included in the November is sue. At the time the ballot was sent to the printers, no one had submitted a can didate statement for the Annual Editor position. So the ballot included this - ANNUAL EDITOR Incumbent chose not to run again No new candidate Write-in candidate -------------- Associate Vote -------------- I have personally spoken with my friend Mike Drew and he acknowledges he failed to submit the required statement. Thus Mike, in essence, "chose not to run again" by failing to submit his candida te's statement. "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choi ce." - `Freewill' by Rush, 1980 I do not know who composed the election ballot (Election committee or the newsle tter Editor), but in either case there was not any mis-conduct by the DeRykes, j ust a ballot that contained a truthful statement; and it was due to a regrettabl e omission by Mike Drew. Laurie's statement seemed to imply the DeRykes had purposely lied about Mike Dre w's actions. As outlined above, that is simply not true. If you are a POCA member, you can confirm all this by viewing the cited newsletters which are available for viewing on the new website. Larry _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. You are absolutely correct Larry. I remember everything exactly as you have stated. Facts are facts. Sandi Snyder In a message dated 6/29/2016 8:04:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com writes: All, Earlier today the new Profiles Editor, Laurie Basile, posted a rather lengthy email. For someone who just last week talked about being "positive", "congenial" and "professional", I found today's post to exhibit very little of those qualities. But what struck me the strongest was the following written by Laurie: "You may recall how the DeRykes published in a Newsletter that Mike Drew did not intend to run again as Editor of Profiles." Hmmmm? Is that true? Seems easy enough to research as I happen to have the pertinent 2014 newsletters right here on my desk. Let's see if I can find where/when such a statement was placed in a newsletter, okay? First mention of the election was in the August, 2014 newsletter on page #12. Boilerplate text from the Bylaws which outlined the term and duties of the officers up for election, followed by a solicitation for candidates. Nothing more. Next mention of the election was in the September, 2014 newsletter on page #9. That page included the candidate statements from VP candidate Mike Burnett and Treasurer candidate Bob Reid. Providing a candidate's statement is required under the Bylaws, but no other statements were submitted nor had any other members been nominated for any of the four open positions. The only mention of the Annual Editor position in September's newsletter was: Annual Editor - Incumbent - Mike Drew, Pantera Club of Northern California (PCNC) No candidates yet (and no Candidate Statements, either - a Bylaws requirement.) Next newsletter election mention was just the ballot included in the November issue. At the time the ballot was sent to the printers, no one had submitted a candidate statement for the Annual Editor position. So the ballot included this - ANNUAL EDITOR Incumbent chose not to run again No new candidate Write-in candidate -------------- Associate Vote -------------- I have personally spoken with my friend Mike Drew and he acknowledges he failed to submit the required statement. Thus Mike, in essence, "chose not to run again" by failing to submit his candidate's statement. "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." - `Freewill' by Rush, 1980 I do not know who composed the election ballot (Election committee or the newsletter Editor), but in either case there was not any mis-conduct by the DeRykes, just a ballot that contained a truthful statement; and it was due to a regrettable omission by Mike Drew. Laurie's statement seemed to imply the DeRykes had purposely lied about Mike Drew's actions. As outlined above, that is simply not true. If you are a POCA member, you can confirm all this by viewing the cited newsletters which are available for viewing on the new website. Larry All, Earlier today the new Profiles Editor, Laurie Basile, posted a rather lengthy email. For someone who just last week talked about being "positive", "congenial" and "professional", I found today's post to exhibit very little of those qualities. But what struck me the strongest was the following written by Laurie: "You may recall how the DeRykes published in a Newsletter that Mike Drew did not intend to run again as Editor of Profiles." Hmmmm? Is that true? Seems easy enough to research as I happen to have the perti nent 2014 newsletters right here on my desk. Let's see if I can find where/when such a statement was placed in a newsletter, okay? First mention of the election was in the August, 2014 newsletter on page #12. Bo ilerplate text from the Bylaws which outlined the term and duties of the officer s up for election, followed by a solicitation for candidates. Nothing more. Next mention of the election was in the September, 2014 newsletter on page #9. T hat page included the candidate statements from VP candidate Mike Burnett and Tr easurer candidate Bob Reid. Providing a candidate's statement is required under the Bylaws, but no other statements were submitted nor had any other members bee n nominated for any of the four open positions. The only mention of the Annual E ditor position in September's newsletter was: Annual Editor - Incumbent - Mike Drew, Pantera Club of Northern California (PCNC) No candidates yet (and no Candidate Statements, either - a Bylaws requir ement.) Next newsletter election mention was just the ballot included in the November is sue. At the time the ballot was sent to the printers, no one had submitted a can didate statement for the Annual Editor position. So the ballot included this - ANNUAL EDITOR Incumbent chose not to run again No new candidate Write-in candidate -------------- Associate Vote -------------- I have personally spoken with my friend Mike Drew and he acknowledges he failed to submit the required statement. Thus Mike, in essence, "chose not to run again" by failing to submit his candida te's statement. "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choi ce." - `Freewill' by Rush, 1980 I do not know who composed the election ballot (Election committee or the newsle tter Editor), but in either case there was not any mis-conduct by the DeRykes, j ust a ballot that contained a truthful statement; and it was due to a regrettabl e omission by Mike Drew. Laurie's statement seemed to imply the DeRykes had purposely lied about Mike Dre w's actions. As outlined above, that is simply not true. If you are a POCA member, you can confirm all this by viewing the cited newsletters which are available for viewing on the new website. Larry _______________________________________________ Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

1 0

Car Trailers
by MyCars 30 Jun '16

30 Jun '16

Anyone know where you can rent an open car trailer (tongue, 5th wheel or gooseneck) long enough to carry two cars (75 Corvette & 71 Pantera). I am in SoCal and need to go get my cars that are up in Seattle. The usual places like U-Haul, Ryder & Pensky, won't rent for a Corvette or Pantera (they say they don't fit) and they only have trailers long enough for 1 car. Thanks Roydon

1 0

I am thrilled
by gonancy＠juno.com 30 Jun '16

30 Jun '16

Oh boy! I'm a peach! I couldn't be more pleased. Peaches are a good thing. ( wait, or is that a bad thing? I'm confused) ____________________________________________________________ Affordable Wireless Plans Set up is easy. Get online in minutes. Starting at only $9.95 per month! www.netzero.net?refcd=nzmem0216

1 0

Had enough, now it's my turn
by laurieferrari＠aol.com 30 Jun '16

30 Jun '16

Ok folks, my turn.... including Miss Empress, Nazi of spellcheck of POCA and former Editor's Mama, the self anointed Co-editor, I'd suggest instead of ranting and raving and trying your best to sabotage the Club... I'd stick to your proclaimed expertise and see why there are two "the's" in the first paragraph, 7th line of the Editor's article, "What is a Pantera" in the 2015, #3 Profiles. While God knows, no one is perfect, there should be at least someone doing a better job of editing since you claim to spend hours upon hours and are such experts! That was my first look; I haven't gone further but I'm sure I can. However, that is far from the point. Insofar as the recent dramatic resignations of both the Editor of the Newsletter and also of Profiles, due to a change in printer, let me say that it's been at least 15 years since I was on the Board and realized then on, that there was something amiss with the total lack of interest in researching a quote for a less expensive printer. In fact, the membership dues were increased to 75. from 50. because of the expensive printing costs. This affected all of you who are members! As it turns out there is definite nepotism involved and the little clique of those controlling the Board for many years, have not entertained any more thrifty nor better printer choices because of this relationship between the DeRykes and the printer (some relative.. niece, daughter in law, or whoever; you can go check the facts). Furthermore, not only has there been control over the printer, there has been control over the elections. You may recall how the DeRykes published in a Newsletter that Mike Drew did not intend to run again as Editor of Profiles. That was entirely bogus and a political manipulation to mislead members in an attempt by them to have their son, Mike Haney, take the position. He not only took over the position in a very questionable election, but also got another vote on the Board to perpetuate the dictatorship that they now accuse the current Board of. If there has been any dictatorship, it surely seems it was the previous. The new Board publicizes meetings, takes surveys for decisions, has actually taken an immediate step in modernizing the Website and has encouraged an impressing increase in membership. If you are going to take sides, let me ask you, do you want a small group to monopolize what you think, what you read, and to be fed mistruths and negative propaganda, or do you want a club where everything is on the up and up... where decisions are made in the best interests of ALL members... and pray tell, hopefully not just to line someone's pockets at our expense? I don't care, at this point, who has said what and who is trying to paint a one sided picture. From my own perspective though, the negativity and threats of suits that everyone is pontificating about are not based on this Forum's existence, but on personal letters and hateful posts that are printed and reprinted to the public out of context to make the current President appear awful and to make the individual Board members seem as if they have no individual input nor brains...You can be sure, that is not the case. Anyone who is attacked, and made to appear so negative, especially when all efforts were designed for the improvement of the Club, would naturally have justified retorts if he is human. In broader perspective, people are dying every time I turn on the news, 40 innocents were killed while having fun at a nightclub, many were killed today in Istanbul, a little 4 year old lost her entire family in a train wreck yesterday, and 3 people were also killed yesterday very near where I am daily because someone was road racing at 100 mph on Ventura Blvd. in Woodland Hills, hit a car head on and killed a mother and her little child and someone else died, for no reason. Do you really think it is smart and a purposeful use of your time to be so petty and hostile over our CAR CLUB? Laurie Ok folks, my turn.... including Miss Empress, Nazi of spellcheck of POCA and former Editor's Mama, the self anointed Co-editor, I'd suggest instead of ranting and raving and trying your best to sabotage the Club... I'd stick to your proclaimed expertise and see why there are two "the's" in the first paragraph, 7th line of the Editor's article, "What is a Pantera" in the 2015, #3 Profiles. While God knows, no one is perfect, there should be at least someone doing a better job of editing since you claim to spend hours upon hours and are such experts! That was my first look; I haven't gone further but I'm sure I can. However, that is far from the point. Insofar as the recent dramatic resignations of both the Editor of the Newsletter and also of Profiles, due to a change in printer, let me say that it's been at least 15 years since I was on the Board and realized then on, that there was something amiss with the total lack of interest in researching a quote for a less expensive printer. In fact, the membership dues were increased to 75. from 50. because of the expensive printing costs. This affected all of you who are members! As it turns out there is definite nepotism involved and the little clique of those controlling the Board for many years, have not entertained any more thrifty nor better printer choices because of this relationship between the DeRykes and the printer (some relative.. niece, daughter in law, or whoever; you can go check the facts). Furthermore, not only has there been control over the printer, there has been control over the elections. You may recall how the DeRykes published in a Newsletter that Mike Drew did not intend to run again as Editor of Profiles. That was entirely bogus and a political manipulation to mislead members in an attempt by them to have their son, Mike Haney, take the position. He not only took over the position in a very questionable election, but also got another vote on the Board to perpetuate the dictatorship that they now accuse the current Board of. If there has been any dictatorship, it surely seems it was the previous. The new Board publicizes meetings, takes surveys for decisions, has actually taken an immediate step in modernizing the Website and has encouraged an impressing increase in membership. If you are going to take sides, let me ask you, do you want a small group to monopolize what you think, what you read, and to be fed mistruths and negative propaganda, or do you want a club where everything is on the up and up... where decisions are made in the best interests of ALL members... and pray tell, hopefully not just to line someone's pockets at our expense? I don't care, at this point, who has said what and who is trying to paint a one sided picture. From my own perspective though, the negativity and threats of suits that everyone is pontificating about are not based on this Forum's existence, but on personal letters and hateful posts that are printed and reprinted to the public out of context to make the current President appear awful and to make the individual Board members seem as if they have no individual input nor brains...You can be sure, that is not the case. Anyone who is attacked, and made to appear so negative, especially when all efforts were designed for the improvement of the Club, would naturally have justified retorts if he is human. In broader perspective, people are dying every time I turn on the news, 40 innocents were killed while having fun at a nightclub, many were killed today in Istanbul, a little 4 year old lost her entire family in a train wreck yesterday, and 3 people were also killed yesterday very near where I am daily because someone was road racing at 100 mph on Ventura Blvd. in Woodland Hills, hit a car head on and killed a mother and her little child and someone else died, for no reason. Do you really think it is smart and a purposeful use of your time to be so petty and hostile over our CAR CLUB? Laurie

10 19

Fw: Impeach
by gonancy＠juno.com 30 Jun '16

30 Jun '16

IMPEACH SHORTTY! RECLAIM POCA, or whatever you want to call it now. I don't know who voted for this guy, but you should be ASHAMED! I WILL BE THE NEW EMPRESS OF THE NEW AND IMPROVED De TOMASO REGIME! ALL HAIL EMPRESS GoNANCY! ( I can't be any worse, can I? Besides, I'm holding the OLD Profiles editor hostage) Is Shortt gonna sue me now? ____________________________________________________________ Fivebreak.com 40 Years of the Same Photo Together, But The Last One is Incredible http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5771e334d859863346a63st02vuc

4 3

Re: [DeTomaso] Quitting POCA for personal reasons
by Charles Engles 29 Jun '16

29 Jun '16

Dear Rob, Well written, well stated and well said, sir. Warmest regards, Chuck Engles -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Rob Dumoulin Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2016 2:54 PM To: DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Quitting POCA for personal reasons I suspect that many of you will opt out of reading this declaration. I understand and I am fairly confident that the reason I wrote it matches your reason for not wanting to read it. If you do, thank you for reading. If you reply, please do so only after reading it to the end. I hope you will see that this is not about me, but about POCA. Months ago, I resigned to sit on the sidelines and ignore POCA carnage around me while I focused on my own family life and automotive challenges of getting 1488 put back together. Weeks ago a decision was reached to not renew my POCA membership after being back in POCA for only one shortt but long year. The bulk of this email was composed weeks back with the intent to publish it only on the POCA site to keep it "in the family". I resurrected it now and my reasons to post to this forum are presented below. The first time I left POCA, it was because I felt that the West Coast leadership did not share my interests because I lived on the opposite side of the country. In fact, I was told such opinions directly. With no active chapter, there was no compelling reason continue as the only POCA member within at least 200 miles and I let my membership expire. Not a big deal. I leave POCA this time because not because I am on the opposite side of the country, but I feel the leadership has ventured into the opposite side of my sense of civility. Sadly enough, I leave at a time when my car is now restored and I am in a position to participate more regionally events. I can live with that especially and promote Panteras on my own if I do not have to deal with the baggage. As I hinted, reasons for leaving POCA this time are not because of the direction the club was going, but rather the means taken to do it. Being in the IT world, I am certainly biased in supporting the web-if-ication of the club, but at the same time I sympathize with and support almost all of the stated opposition. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and observations over the years has taught me that only dysfunctional "Families" ignore, discount, or belittle other member's opinions. A case cannot be made that I am a "criticizer and not a contributor" to POCA's success. Prior to the current website launch, I read the entire web hosting manual (not a small document to say the least), offered to help, was micromanaged to the extreme, tried to quell resistance on the old email list towards the new site based on the knowledge I gained from the manual, all while the hate speech started to flow from the vocal portion of the POCA leadership. At that point I started to question the means being used but still wanted to help the community. I have contributed to the "Pantera Interior" forum on the site by adding instructions on headliner replacement / speaker bar install in the interest of advancing the site and helping members. Also, I envisioned, enhanced and maintained the interactive graphical US map for the 911 list to include all 50 states and bordering Canada instead of just Southeast chapter participants. I seek nor desire praise for any of it. In fact I try to stay as anonymous as I can because my plate is so full right now I can only commit to what i choose to make time for. I mention this only so nobody could say that I was not fully vested in the success of the 'New POCA' experience and wanted it to succeed. Anybody suggesting otherwise is not genuine or not knowledgeable. Accusations that more people are not just jumping on board to help a sinking ship while the captain is willfully firing holes in the hull is utterly insane and is in my opinion propaganda, denial of self blame, or downright delusional. Not only can I not in good conscious recruit anybody else to join POCA right now, I feel fortunate that my membership expires soon. The last straw that made me no longer willing to watch the berating, hate speach, and psychotic behavior was to have a record of it "magically erased" from the POCA forum. For this, I hold the entire BOD responsible. For those of you reading this that are not in the 'Free World' or have yet to view the POCA site forums regularly, you may accept rewriting of history as protocol from your dictator regimes or are unaware of what is happening. Though we may feel helpless to deal with similar behavior from our governments, do we really expect to deal with this abuse from a freak-in car club? Does it matter that the POCA forum history will only reflect harmony and birds singing in the springtime any time relevant questions/discussions not fitting a controlled narrative occur are responded to with such revolting and utter contempt? "Control the narrative, control the situation" is a common way to erase skeletons. Just ask the Clintons (sorry, I had to sneak that shot in), and some unmentioned entity which recently tried to intimidate this list from having their past inflammatory remarks stripped from the record. Maybe to some people it does not matter, but to me it does, thus I walk away from POCA again. I have unsubscribed from all POCA forum notifications (not really missing much other than the same old impetuous vitriol), will let my membership lapse, will no longer support the POCA 911 Emergency Travel guide and map, and will not be present at the East Coast Fall event. I gladly offer to host any of the wonderful SE Pantera brethren as they travel North through Florida on their way to the event and hope to participate and support chapter events as able. I make the statement on THIS forum for one simple reason: I am confident that such a declaration would be erased from the POCA forum along with any character assassination against me that would follow. I really would like to have a record of fallout spew directed towards me before self-censorship of the POCA site occurs. Notice: Any private responses sent to me on this or any other topic may be shared with this community regardless of any disclaimers on your email stating not to share it. I beat you at your own game by declaring it first. Somehow, I suspect that creating the current POCA toxic atmosphere was done intentionally. Motives could be: - To drive away/discredit any opposition before a passive majority of its members subscribe to forum emails, then erase/replace it all the carnage with a narrative of how nobody volunteered to help, threw stones, and statements of good riddance? - To intimidate and silence opposing opinions turning them into disengaged low-information minions who pay dues? - A belief that short attention spans will forget this? - In the name of progress because the masses are fools that have to be led? Of course, these are just conspiracy theories, but my gut and view of actions from the inside says the degree of truth to all of them ranges from a little to right on the money. Your gastric outcomes may vary. Regardless of the motives, such activity and hate speech must be sanctioned by the POCA BOD, otherwise, it would have been stopped or at a minimum be publicly denounced. Not even once was it denounced nor has it diminished. I sincerely hope POCA survives this new public image it has created. I feel sorry for you Ed L. You seemed like a straight-up guy to me that was dealt a rotten situation until you requested that I not to use this email forum. If any BOD members are left standing if/when this ship sinks, you have only yourselves to blame for allowing one person to continue shooting vitriol speech when in hindsight you should have taken away his bullet points (not so subtle colloquialism intended). Even if you somehow craft an apology or stop the hate speech, don't be surprised when it does not fool anybody without actions to back it up. True colors have been shown and they are not pretty. Sad, but true that none of this was even necessary if not for the actions of one replaceable spokesperson representing the entire organization and a board that was indifferent for reasons unknown to at least me. I once considered the current President my friend. I have attended events with him, hosted him and his lovely wife Joanie while they were attending the Amelia Island Concourse, and he has hosted myself and my wife for the Hilton Head Concourse. At this stage in my life, I have no energy available to expend for any person or entity with his M.O., especially one that I pay dues to support. Micheal, please erase my contact information from your phone, email, and address book. I suspect we will never meet again. For everybody else, thank you all for being there for me and my car over these 8 long years of restoration. Proactive thanks for the years to come and I welcome the opportunity to meet and help any of you if the opportunity ever arises. Rob DuMoulin Caretaker of 1488

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Re: [DeTomaso] Condenser relay
by SOBill＠aol.com 29 Jun '16

29 Jun '16

Nick, Relays are about as simple as a stone: a coil of wire to make an electromagnet and a set of movable contacts. If the coil is OK and the contacts are not burned up or welded together, the relay will work. Open the failed relay and take a look at the contacts. If it is an OEM relay, you can bend the metal enclosure and get the relays innards out. If you have an after market plastic housing relay you will need to carefully saw the housing near the base to expose the innards. Let me know what you find .... send me a picture of the contacts if you can. A picture will tell a lot about what happened. The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing. Do the best you can with what your have where you are. Have fun today! SOBill Nick, Relays are about as simple as a stone: a coil of wire to make an electromagnet and a set of movable contacts. If the coil is OK and the contacts are not burned up or welded together, the relay will work. Open the failed relay and take a look at the contacts. If it is an OEM relay, you can bend the metal enclosure and get the relays innards out. If you have an after market plastic housing relay you will need to carefully saw the housing near the base to expose the innards. Let me know what you find .... send me a picture of the contacts if you can. A picture will tell a lot about what happened. The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing. Do the best you can with what your have where you are. Have fun today! SOBill

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Quitting POCA for personal reasons
by Rob Dumoulin 29 Jun '16

29 Jun '16

I suspect that many of you will opt out of reading this declaration. I understand and I am fairly confident that the reason I wrote it matches your reason for not wanting to read it. If you do, thank you for reading. If you reply, please do so only after reading it to the end. I hope you will see that this is not about me, but about POCA. Months ago, I resigned to sit on the sidelines and ignore POCA carnage around me while I focused on my own family life and automotive challenges of getting 1488 put back together. Weeks ago a decision was reached to not renew my POCA membership after being back in POCA for only one shortt but long year. The bulk of this email was composed weeks back with the intent to publish it only on the POCA site to keep it "in the family". I resurrected it now and my reasons to post to this forum are presented below. The first time I left POCA, it was because I felt that the West Coast leadership did not share my interests because I lived on the opposite side of the country. In fact, I was told such opinions directly. With no active chapter, there was no compelling reason continue as the only POCA member within at least 200 miles and I let my membership expire. Not a big deal. I leave POCA this time because not because I am on the opposite side of the country, but I feel the leadership has ventured into the opposite side of my sense of civility. Sadly enough, I leave at a time when my car is now restored and I am in a position to participate more regionally events. I can live with that especially and promote Panteras on my own if I do not have to deal with the baggage. As I hinted, reasons for leaving POCA this time are not because of the direction the club was going, but rather the means taken to do it. Being in the IT world, I am certainly biased in supporting the web-if-ication of the club, but at the same time I sympathize with and support almost all of the stated opposition. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and observations over the years has taught me that only dysfunctional "Families" ignore, discount, or belittle other member's opinions. A case cannot be made that I am a "criticizer and not a contributor" to POCA's success. Prior to the current website launch, I read the entire web hosting manual (not a small document to say the least), offered to help, was micromanaged to the extreme, tried to quell resistance on the old email list towards the new site based on the knowledge I gained from the manual, all while the hate speech started to flow from the vocal portion of the POCA leadership. At that point I started to question the means being used but still wanted to help the community. I have contributed to the "Pantera Interior" forum on the site by adding instructions on headliner replacement / speaker bar install in the interest of advancing the site and helping members. Also, I envisioned, enhanced and maintained the interactive graphical US map for the 911 list to include all 50 states and bordering Canada instead of just Southeast chapter participants. I seek nor desire praise for any of it. In fact I try to stay as anonymous as I can because my plate is so full right now I can only commit to what i choose to make time for. I mention this only so nobody could say that I was not fully vested in the success of the 'New POCA' experience and wanted it to succeed. Anybody suggesting otherwise is not genuine or not knowledgeable. Accusations that more people are not just jumping on board to help a sinking ship while the captain is willfully firing holes in the hull is utterly insane and is in my opinion propaganda, denial of self blame, or downright delusional. Not only can I not in good conscious recruit anybody else to join POCA right now, I feel fortunate that my membership expires soon. The last straw that made me no longer willing to watch the berating, hate speach, and psychotic behavior was to have a record of it "magically erased" from the POCA forum. For this, I hold the entire BOD responsible. For those of you reading this that are not in the 'Free World' or have yet to view the POCA site forums regularly, you may accept rewriting of history as protocol from your dictator regimes or are unaware of what is happening. Though we may feel helpless to deal with similar behavior from our governments, do we really expect to deal with this abuse from a freak-in car club? Does it matter that the POCA forum history will only reflect harmony and birds singing in the springtime any time relevant questions/discussions not fitting a controlled narrative occur are responded to with such revolting and utter contempt? "Control the narrative, control the situation" is a common way to erase skeletons. Just ask the Clintons (sorry, I had to sneak that shot in), and some unmentioned entity which recently tried to intimidate this list from having their past inflammatory remarks stripped from the record. Maybe to some people it does not matter, but to me it does, thus I walk away from POCA again. I have unsubscribed from all POCA forum notifications (not really missing much other than the same old impetuous vitriol), will let my membership lapse, will no longer support the POCA 911 Emergency Travel guide and map, and will not be present at the East Coast Fall event. I gladly offer to host any of the wonderful SE Pantera brethren as they travel North through Florida on their way to the event and hope to participate and support chapter events as able. I make the statement on THIS forum for one simple reason: I am confident that such a declaration would be erased from the POCA forum along with any character assassination against me that would follow. I really would like to have a record of fallout spew directed towards me before self-censorship of the POCA site occurs. Notice: Any private responses sent to me on this or any other topic may be shared with this community regardless of any disclaimers on your email stating not to share it. I beat you at your own game by declaring it first. Somehow, I suspect that creating the current POCA toxic atmosphere was done intentionally. Motives could be: - To drive away/discredit any opposition before a passive majority of its members subscribe to forum emails, then erase/replace it all the carnage with a narrative of how nobody volunteered to help, threw stones, and statements of good riddance? - To intimidate and silence opposing opinions turning them into disengaged low-information minions who pay dues? - A belief that short attention spans will forget this? - In the name of progress because the masses are fools that have to be led? Of course, these are just conspiracy theories, but my gut and view of actions from the inside says the degree of truth to all of them ranges from a little to right on the money. Your gastric outcomes may vary. Regardless of the motives, such activity and hate speech must be sanctioned by the POCA BOD, otherwise, it would have been stopped or at a minimum be publicly denounced. Not even once was it denounced nor has it diminished. I sincerely hope POCA survives this new public image it has created. I feel sorry for you Ed L. You seemed like a straight-up guy to me that was dealt a rotten situation until you requested that I not to use this email forum. If any BOD members are left standing if/when this ship sinks, you have only yourselves to blame for allowing one person to continue shooting vitriol speech when in hindsight you should have taken away his bullet points (not so subtle colloquialism intended). Even if you somehow craft an apology or stop the hate speech, don't be surprised when it does not fool anybody without actions to back it up. True colors have been shown and they are not pretty. Sad, but true that none of this was even necessary if not for the actions of one replaceable spokesperson representing the entire organization and a board that was indifferent for reasons unknown to at least me. I once considered the current President my friend. I have attended events with him, hosted him and his lovely wife Joanie while they were attending the Amelia Island Concourse, and he has hosted myself and my wife for the Hilton Head Concourse. At this stage in my life, I have no energy available to expend for any person or entity with his M.O., especially one that I pay dues to support. Micheal, please erase my contact information from your phone, email, and address book. I suspect we will never meet again. For everybody else, thank you all for being there for me and my car over these 8 long years of restoration. Proactive thanks for the years to come and I welcome the opportunity to meet and help any of you if the opportunity ever arises. Rob DuMoulin Caretaker of 1488 I suspect that many of you will opt out of reading this declaration. I understand and I am fairly confident that the reason I wrote it matches your reason for not wanting to read it. If you do, thank you for reading. If you reply, please do so only after reading it to the end. I hope you will see that this is not about me, but about POCA.A Months ago, I resigned to sit on the sidelines and ignore POCA carnage around me while I focused on my own family life and automotive challenges of getting 1488 put back together.A Weeks ago a decision was reached to not renew my POCA membership after being back in POCA for only one shortt but long year. The bulk of this email was composed weeks back with the intent to publish it only on the POCA site to keep it "in the family".A I resurrected it now and my reasons to post to this forum are presented below.A The first time I left POCA, it was because I felt that the West Coast leadership did not share my interests because I lived on the opposite side of the country. In fact, I was told such opinions directly.A With no active chapter, there was no compelling reason continue as the only POCA member within at least 200 miles and I let my membership expire. Not a big deal.A I leave POCA this time because not because I am on the opposite side of the country, but I feel the leadership has ventured into the opposite side of my sense of civility. Sadly enough, I leave at a time when my car is now restored and I am in a position to participate more regionally events. I can live with that especially and promote Panteras on my own if I do not have to deal with the baggage. As I hinted, reasons for leaving POCA this time are not because of the direction the club was going, but rather the means taken to do it. Being in the IT world, I am certainly biased in supporting the web-if-ication of the club, but at the same time I sympathize with and support almost all of the stated opposition. Everybody is entitled to an opinion and observations over the years has taught me that only dysfunctional "Families" ignore, discount, or belittle other member's opinions.A A case cannot be made that I am a "criticizer and not a contributor" to POCA's success. Prior to the current website launch, I read the entire web hosting manual (not a small document to say the least), offered to help, was micromanaged to the extreme, tried to quell resistance on the old email list towards the new site based on the knowledge I gained from the manual, all while the hate speech started to flow from the vocal portion of the POCA leadership.A At that point I started to question the means being used but still wanted to help the community. I have contributed to the "Pantera Interior" forum on the site by adding instructions on headliner replacement / speaker bar install in the interest of advancing the site and helping members. Also, I envisioned, enhanced and maintained the interactive graphical US map for the 911 list to include all 50 states and bordering Canada instead of just Southeast chapter participants. I seek nor desire praise for any of it.A In fact I try to stay as anonymous as I can because my plate is so full right now I can only commit to what i choose to make time for.A I mention this only so nobody could say that I was not fully vested in the success of the 'New POCA' experience and wanted it to succeed.A Anybody suggesting otherwise is not genuine or not knowledgeable. Accusations that more people are not just jumping on board to help a sinking ship while the captain is willfully firing holes in the hull is utterly insane and is in my opinion propaganda, denial of self blame, or downright delusional. Not only can I not in good conscious recruit anybody else to join POCA right now, I feel fortunate that my membership expires soon. The last straw that made me no longer willing to watch the berating, hate speach, and psychotic behavior was to have a record of it "magically erased" from the POCA forum.A For this, I hold the entire BOD responsible. For those of you reading this that are not in the 'Free World' or have yet to view the POCA site forums regularly, you may accept rewriting of history as protocol from your dictator regimes or are unaware of what is happening.A Though we may feel helpless to deal with similar behavior from our governments, do we really expect to deal with this abuse from a freak-in car club?A Does it matter that the POCA forum history will only reflect harmony and birds singing in the springtime any time relevant questions/discussions not fitting a controlled narrative occur are responded to with such revolting and utter contempt? A "Control the narrative, control the situation" is a common way to erase skeletons. Just ask the Clintons (sorry, I had to sneak that shot in), and some unmentioned entity which recently tried to intimidate this list from having their past inflammatory remarks stripped from the record.A Maybe to some people it does not matter, but to me it does, thus I walk away from POCA again. I have unsubscribed from all POCA forum notifications (not really missing much other than the same old impetuous vitriol), will let my membership lapse, will no longer support the POCA 911 Emergency Travel guide and map, and will not be present at the East Coast Fall event.A I gladly offer to host any of the wonderful SE Pantera brethren as they travel North through Florida on their way to the event and hope to participate and support chapter events as able.A I make the statement on THIS forum for one simple reason: A I am confident that such a declaration would be erased from the POCA forum along with any character assassination against me that would follow.A I really would like to have a record of fallout spew directed towards me before self-censorship of the POCA site occurs.A Notice: Any private responses sent to me on this or any other topic may be shared with this community regardless of any disclaimers on your email stating not to share it.A I beat you at your own game by declaring it first.A Somehow, I suspect that creating the current POCA toxic atmosphere was done intentionally. Motives could be: A - To drive away/discredit any opposition before a passive majority of its members subscribe to forum emails, then erase/replace it all the carnage with a narrative of how nobody volunteered to help, threw stones, and statements of good riddance? A A - To intimidate and silence opposing opinions turning them into disengaged A low-information minions who pay dues? A A - A belief that short attention spans will forget this? A A - In the name of progress because the masses are fools that have to be led? Of course, these are justA conspiracyA theories, but my gut and view of actions from the inside says the degree of truth to all of them ranges from a little to right on the money. Your gastric outcomes may vary. Regardless of the motives, such activity and hate speech must be sanctionedA by the POCA BOD, otherwise, it would have been stopped or at a minimum be publicly denounced. Not even once was it denounced nor has it diminished. I sincerely hope POCA survives this new public image it has created. I feel sorry for you Ed L. You seemed like a straight-up guy to me that was dealt a rotten situation until you requested that I not to use this email forum. If any BOD members are left standing if/when this ship sinks, you have only yourselves to blame for allowing one person to continue shooting vitriol speech when in hindsight you should have taken away his bullet points (not so subtle colloquialism intended).A Even if you somehow craft an apology or stop the hate speech, don't be surprised when it does not fool anybody without actions to back it up.A True colors have been shown and they are not pretty.A Sad, but true that none of this was even necessary if not for the actions of one replaceable spokesperson representing the entire organization and a board that was indifferent for reasons unknown to at least me. I once considered the current President my friend.A I have attended events with him, hosted him and his lovely wife Joanie while they were attending the Amelia Island Concourse, and he has hosted myself and my wife for the Hilton Head Concourse. At this stage in my life, I have no energy available to expend for any person or entity with his M.O., especially one that I pay dues to support.A Micheal, please erase my contact information from your phone, email, and address book.A I suspect we will never meet again. For everybody else, thank you all for being there for me and my car over these 8 long years of restoration.A Proactive thanks for the years to come and I welcome the opportunity to meet and help any of you if the opportunity ever arises. Rob DuMoulin Caretaker of 1488

1 0

Condenser relay
by nick mcintosh sr 29 Jun '16

29 Jun '16

Does anyone know what would cause a condenser ran relay to go bad? I replaced one and a year later its bad again. Nick 7252 Does anyone know what would cause a condenser ran relay to go bad? I replaced one and a year later its bad again. Nick 7252

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