May 2016 - DeTomaso - detomasolist.com

The Mission Statement of POCA
by Ed Mendez 25 May '16

25 May '16

The Mission Statement of POCA: POCA (Pantera Owners Club of America) exists to provide news, technical information, planned/coordinated events, and opportunities for owners and fans of all DeTomaso models to interact in social situations designed to enhance the ownership experience.

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POCA membership‏
by Rod Kunishige 25 May '16

25 May '16

Good news. POCA Board mtg minutes are now open to paid members. Good news. POCA Board mtg minutes are now open to paid members.

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Re: [DeTomaso] Club Status
by LEVITT1946＠aol.com 25 May '16

25 May '16

well stated my friends best bob levitt In a message dated 5/24/2016 6:13:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com writes: Well stated! Sent from Effie's iPhone > On May 24, 2016, at 1:54 PM, Nathan Giles <nathan.giles(a)ex3.com> wrote: > > Through the years I have seen one club after another flounder because people get caught up in personalies. DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN to POCA! > > The current elected leadership is doing what they think is best to move the club forward. > Many of thier initiatives are good. > They've obviously rubbed some members the wrong way. > > Forget all that. This is a community of friends who love a particular Marque. Don't get blinded by the BS. Lets stick together and have fun.Ebgough of this already. > > Nathan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Törnblom" <tipo874(a)gmail.com> > To: "Daniel C Jones" <daniel.c.jones2(a)gmail.com> > Cc: DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 1:49:09 PM > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law > > I have a couple of months until I'm up for renewal, and there has to be some serious improvements before I renew. > > I have been a member since 2000, when I bought the car and with the current state of affairs I will just let my membership expire. > > Thomas > > 24 maj 2016 kl. 18:56 skrev Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2(a)gmail.com>: > >>> What does this have to do with Panteras or DeTomaso? >> Reading between the lines, it appears POCA's "Dear Leader" saw someone >> re-posting one of his many unflattering posts and is threatening Kurt >> with legal action unless all of his posts are removed from the DeTomaso >> mailing list archives (claims he has copyright on all material he >> posted to the list).A That guy is a real piece of work and not who I >> want representing our club.A My POCA membership is up for renewal and >> I'm having a very hard time justifying re-joining, even though I've >> been a member since the 1990s.A >> Dan Jones >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >> DeTomaso mailing list >> DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com >> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. well stated my friends best bob levitt In a message dated 5/24/2016 6:13:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, erichards(a)zogob.sdcoxmail.com writes: Well stated! Sent from Effie's iPhone > On May 24, 2016, at 1:54 PM, Nathan Giles <nathan.giles(a)ex3.com> wrote: > > Through the years I have seen one club after another flounder because people get caught up in personalies. DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN to POCA! > > The current elected leadership is doing what they think is best to move the club forward. > Many of thier initiatives are good. > They've obviously rubbed some members the wrong way. > > Forget all that. This is a community of friends who love a particular Marque. Don't get blinded by the BS. Lets stick together and have fun.Ebgough of this already. > > Nathan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Toernblom" <tipo874(a)gmail.com> > To: "Daniel C Jones" <daniel.c.jones2(a)gmail.com> > Cc: DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 1:49:09 PM > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law > > I have a couple of months until I'm up for renewal, and there has to be some serious improvements before I renew. > > I have been a member since 2000, when I bought the car and with the current state of affairs I will just let my membership expire. > > Thomas > > 24 maj 2016 kl. 18:56 skrev Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2(a)gmail.com>: > >>> What does this have to do with Panteras or DeTomaso? >> Reading between the lines, it appears POCA's "Dear Leader" saw someone >> re-posting one of his many unflattering posts and is threatening Kurt >> with legal action unless all of his posts are removed from the DeTomaso >> mailing list archives (claims he has copyright on all material he >> posted to the list).A That guy is a real piece of work and not who I >> want representing our club.A My POCA membership is up for renewal and >> I'm having a very hard time justifying re-joining, even though I've >> been a member since the 1990s.A >> Dan Jones >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA >> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes >> DeTomaso mailing list >> DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com >> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.

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Re: [DeTomaso] Was: Club Status Now: A Utopian Thought Experiment
by marshallgsmith 24 May '16

24 May '16

An all time classic Rob! Thanks for the chuckle. Marshall Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Rob Dumoulin <rob(a)dumoulins.net> Date: 05/24/2016 3:17 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Nathan Giles <nathan.giles(a)ex3.com> Cc: DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Was: Club Status Now: A Utopian Thought Experiment Well, I advertised Utopia, but may be a stretch. How about a world where everybody just wakes up one morning and puts their lives into perspective? This is an audience participation game. First, if you are responding through a daily digest and not directly to post,for the benefit of us all, please cut the daily digest out. It really is a buzz-kill. Please add to the below list by copy-all and PLEASE leave the politics for sites like this: http://www.ihatemylife.us/index2.html The first level of the list must begin with the word "We'. - We Like the concept of the "wheel" - We Like Cars - We Like to Drive Cars - We Like to talk about the DeTomaso marque - We Prefer the smell of leather and gas over cologne and perfume - We either like to work on or closely supervise others working on our cars - We even name our cars and sometimes talk to them (is it just me?) - We Like to Drive a Pantera EXCEPT when: - It's raining - It's snowing - It's too cold outside and your heater bypass valves are closed from Summer - It's too hot outside and the darn AC compressor stopped kicking in - You need to bring a furry pet to the vet - You go to the store to buy anything bigger than a book - You are driving from the passenger seat...You have been there - You feel like taking the GT40 - The engine is on a stand in the spare bedroom - Rob DuMoulin Well, I advertised Utopia, but may be a stretch. How about a world where everybody just wakes up one morning and puts their lives into perspective?A This is an audience participation game.A First, if you are responding through a daily digest and not directly to post,for the benefit of us all, please cut the daily digest out.A It really is a buzz-kill. Please add to the below list by copy-all and PLEASE leave the politics for sites like this: A A A A A A [1]http://www.ihatemylife.us/index2.html The first level of the list must begin with the word "We'. - We Like the concept of the "wheel" - We Like Cars - We Like to Drive Cars - We Like to talk about the DeTomaso marque - We Prefer the smell of leather and gas over cologne and perfume - We either like to work on or closely supervise others working on our cars - We even name our cars and sometimes talk to them (is it just me?) - We Like to Drive a Pantera EXCEPT when: A A - It's raining A A - It's snowing A A - It's too cold outside and your heater bypass valves are closed from Summer A A - It's too hot outside and the darn AC compressor stopped kicking in A A - You need to bring a furry pet to the vet A A - You go to the store to buy anything bigger than a book A A - You are driving from the passenger seat...You have been there A A - You feel like taking the GT40 A A - The engine is on a stand in the spare bedroom A A -A Rob DuMoulin References 1. http://www.ihatemylife.us/index2.html _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. An all time classic Rob! Thanks for the chuckle. Marshall Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Rob Dumoulin <rob(a)dumoulins.net> Date: 05/24/2016 3:17 PM (GMT-08:00) To: Nathan Giles <nathan.giles(a)ex3.com> Cc: DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Was: Club Status Now: A Utopian Thought Experiment Well, I advertised Utopia, but may be a stretch. How about a world where everybody just wakes up one morning and puts their lives into perspective? This is an audience participation game. First, if you are responding through a daily digest and not directly to post,for the benefit of us all, please cut the daily digest out. It really is a buzz-kill. Please add to the below list by copy-all and PLEASE leave the politics for sites like this: http://www.ihatemylife.us/index2.html The first level of the list must begin with the word "We'. - We Like the concept of the "wheel" - We Like Cars - We Like to Drive Cars - We Like to talk about the DeTomaso marque - We Prefer the smell of leather and gas over cologne and perfume - We either like to work on or closely supervise others working on our cars - We even name our cars and sometimes talk to them (is it just me?) - We Like to Drive a Pantera EXCEPT when: - It's raining - It's snowing - It's too cold outside and your heater bypass valves are closed from Summer - It's too hot outside and the darn AC compressor stopped kicking in - You need to bring a furry pet to the vet - You go to the store to buy anything bigger than a book - You are driving from the passenger seat...You have been there - You feel like taking the GT40 - The engine is on a stand in the spare bedroom - Rob DuMoulin Well, I advertised Utopia, but may be a stretch. How about a world where everybody just wakes up one morning and puts their lives into perspective?A This is an audience participation game.A First, if you are responding through a daily digest and not directly to post,for the benefit of us all, please cut the daily digest out.A It really is a buzz-kill. Please add to the below list by copy-all and PLEASE leave the politics for sites like this: A A A A A A [1]http://www.ihatemylife.us/index2.html The first level of the list must begin with the word "We'. - We Like the concept of the "wheel" - We Like Cars - We Like to Drive Cars - We Like to talk about the DeTomaso marque - We Prefer the smell of leather and gas over cologne and perfume - We either like to work on or closely supervise others working on our cars - We even name our cars and sometimes talk to them (is it just me?) - We Like to Drive a Pantera EXCEPT when: A A - It's raining A A - It's snowing A A - It's too cold outside and your heater bypass valves are closed from Summer A A - It's too hot outside and the darn AC compressor stopped kicking in A A - You need to bring a furry pet to the vet A A - You go to the store to buy anything bigger than a book A A - You are driving from the passenger seat...You have been there A A - You feel like taking the GT40 A A - The engine is on a stand in the spare bedroom A A -A Rob DuMoulin References 1. http://www.ihatemylife.us/index2.html _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.

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Was: Club Status Now: A Utopian Thought Experiment
by Rob Dumoulin 24 May '16

24 May '16

Well, I advertised Utopia, but may be a stretch. How about a world where everybody just wakes up one morning and puts their lives into perspective? This is an audience participation game. First, if you are responding through a daily digest and not directly to post,for the benefit of us all, please cut the daily digest out. It really is a buzz-kill. Please add to the below list by copy-all and PLEASE leave the politics for sites like this: http://www.ihatemylife.us/index2.html The first level of the list must begin with the word "We'. - We Like the concept of the "wheel" - We Like Cars - We Like to Drive Cars - We Like to talk about the DeTomaso marque - We Prefer the smell of leather and gas over cologne and perfume - We either like to work on or closely supervise others working on our cars - We even name our cars and sometimes talk to them (is it just me?) - We Like to Drive a Pantera EXCEPT when: - It's raining - It's snowing - It's too cold outside and your heater bypass valves are closed from Summer - It's too hot outside and the darn AC compressor stopped kicking in - You need to bring a furry pet to the vet - You go to the store to buy anything bigger than a book - You are driving from the passenger seat...You have been there - You feel like taking the GT40 - The engine is on a stand in the spare bedroom - Rob DuMoulin Well, I advertised Utopia, but may be a stretch. How about a world where everybody just wakes up one morning and puts their lives into perspective?A This is an audience participation game.A First, if you are responding through a daily digest and not directly to post,for the benefit of us all, please cut the daily digest out.A It really is a buzz-kill. Please add to the below list by copy-all and PLEASE leave the politics for sites like this: A A A A A A [1]http://www.ihatemylife.us/index2.html The first level of the list must begin with the word "We'. - We Like the concept of the "wheel" - We Like Cars - We Like to Drive Cars - We Like to talk about the DeTomaso marque - We Prefer the smell of leather and gas over cologne and perfume - We either like to work on or closely supervise others working on our cars - We even name our cars and sometimes talk to them (is it just me?) - We Like to Drive a Pantera EXCEPT when: A A - It's raining A A - It's snowing A A - It's too cold outside and your heater bypass valves are closed from Summer A A - It's too hot outside and the darn AC compressor stopped kicking in A A - You need to bring a furry pet to the vet A A - You go to the store to buy anything bigger than a book A A - You are driving from the passenger seat...You have been there A A - You feel like taking the GT40 A A - The engine is on a stand in the spare bedroom A A -A Rob DuMoulin References 1. http://www.ihatemylife.us/index2.html

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POCA membership
by Rod Kunishige 24 May '16

24 May '16

POCA membership It is very simple: You can not vote unless you are a $75 paid member or associate (soon to be $85). You can not run for office unless you are a paid member or associate. You can vote for those existing Board members upon their rotation who share your view if you are a paid member or associate. You can find out the vision of Board members including their respect of others opinion by asking each if you are a paid member or associate.You can vote for a new Board candidate who share your view if you are a paid member or associate. Do you want to be a paid member or associate? Your choice as always. POCA membership It is very simple: You can not vote unless you are a $75 paid member or associate (soon to be $85). You can not run for office unless you are a paid member or associate. You can vote for those existing Board members upon their rotation who share your view if you are a paid member or associate. You can find out the vision of Board members including their respect of others opinion by asking each if you are a paid member or associate. You can vote for a new Board candidate who share your view if you are a paid member or associate. Do you want to be a paid member or associate? Your choice as always.

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Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law
by kdb＠kbyrnes.com 24 May '16

24 May '16

Thanks Ken. The issue is a disgruntled former poster of the email list has sent me a request to purge every post he has made to the list. He is claiming he owns the copyright to anything he has written. Is he correct? Thanks,Kurt ------ Original message------From: Ken GreenDate: Mon, May 23, 2016 11:27 PMTo: Kurt Byrnes;DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com;Subject:Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law Generally, you are not free to use a copyrighted work in its entirely, or substantial portions, but under the fair use, you can copy short sections of it if you are commenting on them, not reproducing the work as a whole. If it's something simple like a photo or painting, you cannot reproduce it in its original entirely, but I think there was a case where the court found that a low resolution thumb nail version of as copyrighted painting did not infringe because it would never be blown up and used as art. This looks pretty good: Using materials from the Internet Using materials from the InternetUsing materials from the InternetView on copyright.lib.utexas.eduPreview by Yahoo From: Kurt Byrnes > To: DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 1:41 PM Subject: [DeTomaso] Copyright law If you or anyone you know could please advise me in regards to copyrights of material posted to the list, please contact me ASAP! Sheesh! _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Thanks Ken. The issue is a disgruntled former poster of the email list has sent me a request to purge every post he has made to the list. He is claiming he owns the copyright to anything he has written. Is he correct? Thanks, Kurt ------ Original message------ From: Ken Green Date: Mon, May 23, 2016 11:27 PM To: Kurt Byrnes[1];DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com; Subject:Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law Generally, you are not free to use a copyrighted work in its entirely, or substantial portions, but under the fair use, you can copy short sections of it if you are commenting on them, not reproducing the work as a whole. If it's something simple like a photo or painting, you cannot reproduce it in its original entirely, but I think there was a case where the court found that a low resolution thumb nail version of as copyrighted painting did not infringe because it would never be blown up and used as art. This looks pretty good: [2]Using materials from the Internet [3]image [4]Using materials from the Internet Using materials from the Internet [5]View on [6]copyright.lib.utexas.edu Preview by Yahoo __________________________________________________________________ From: Kurt Byrnes [7]> To:[8] DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 1:41 PM Subject: [DeTomaso] Copyright law If you or anyone you know could please advise me in regards to copyrights of material posted to the list, please contact me ASAP! Sheesh! _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list [9]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com [10]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. References 1. mailto:;DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 2. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 3. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 4. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 5. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 6. http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/ 7. mailto:<kdb(a)kbyrnes.com 8. mailto:%20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

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Re: [DeTomaso] Fw: Fw: Jiffy Lube - NPC
by Scott Mead Photography 24 May '16

24 May '16

I shudder to think of the number of people who have been scarred, or left the club over the years from slung arrows or miss-information, ether over forums or from the rumor mill. When I read/hear of such things, it strikes a familial chord: My father, Don, joined POCA back in ’75, and was shortly thereafter “drafted” (as a lot of us were for Board positions back in the day) to be the club’s Membership Chairman. As a software designer, he wrote and administered POCA’s first membership software, as well as provided all the mailing labels, reports and printouts to the Board (keep in mind, this was in the days of mainframes, punch cards and massive line printers). After several years, he stepped aside as Membership Chairman, but continued to provide POCA with a free terminal/modem, data processing, reports, labels etc. Even as he migrated from mainframes to minis and micro-computers, he shouldered the cost of converting and housing POCA’s data. He would probably still be donating his time and supplies to the Club, had it not been for a group of people, and one particular board member, referencing my father, who wrote “Never again shall POCA be held to ransom by a third-party vendor” among other unfortunate writings. What was said cut my father to the core. After years of dedication, volunteering his time and supplies – again at absolutely no charge -- to an organization he adored, he quietly turned all the data over to club (even converting the data to their then-new system), let his POCA membership expire and sold his car for far below market value. I only recount this event, as it serves as a good reminder that before we click on the “send” key, it would behoove us to read what we wrote, and ask ourselves “would I like to be on the receiving end of this message?” If not, then think twice before clicking the mouse button. Mahalo, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of scott black via DeTomaso Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 4:52 PM To: Asa Jay Laughton; detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: [DeTomaso] Fw: Fw: Jiffy Lube - NPC Yes, it was disappointing email response. I appreciated the kind words from those who know me. And no, we have yet to represent (or even pitch) any oil change business. Though, we would happily accept the work, LOL. I hope that cooler heads prevail in the POCA leadership than occurred in this unfortunate attack. Scott Black Former POCA Board Member TimePiece Public Relations & Marketing Marketing Acceleration www.tprm-usa.com On Sunday, May 22, 2016 3:37 PM, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay(a)asajay.com> wrote: As I recall, Scott was the PR chair for POCA for many years and did a wonderful job. I think it was (like many of us) more work and less play in his own life that caused him to step back. But I'm sure he can defend himself on this one too. ;) Asa Jay Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired & Shelley Marie Spokane, WA ****************************** http://w7tsc.org http://www.teampanteraracing.com On 5/21/2016 5:40 PM, Julian Kift wrote: > "PS: I know Scott Black and he is a prince." > > A good guitarist or dead? ;-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On > Behalf Of Ken Green via DeTomaso > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 6:56 PM > To: detomaso(a)detomasolist.com > Subject: [DeTomaso] Fw: Jiffy Lube - NPC > > > > I suppose this post from 2007 might give you an idea of Mr. Short's temperament. A few folks on the forum did not take kindly to the negative comments suggesting that Scott Black was trying to line his own packets. > Ken > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: Michael Shortt<michaelsavga(a)gmail.com> > To: Art Stephens<artstephens(a)charter.net> > Cc: DeTomaso A<detomaso(a)realbig.com>; scott >black<timepiecepr2(a)yahoo.com> > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 2:46 AM > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Jiffy Lube - NPC > > I don't know you Scott, through my search of the last 24 months of Detomaso List postings I can't find another post by you. You may very well have the best of intentions. > > However, as a PR Professional (?), your rehashing of old news ( that was on Dateline 3 years ago ) seems highly irresponsible, leading me to question your motives, seeing that your business targets the automotive marketplace does nothing to remove any doubt, nothing like creating a problem that you can offer to help fix for a fee. > > There are crooks in every business, yes even PR firms and Jiffy Lube franchisees, but to use a broad brush to paint all of them as being such is nothing more than over the backyard fence fearmongering. You above all others should know that to be true. > > Anybody who has their car serviced at any dealership of any kind, esp. one that promises 30 min or less, and goes and sits on their ass and watches TV instead of watching their car probably deserves whatever they get. There is no excuse for the crooks, they should have been arrested, that is nothing more than stealing, but a smart consumer would be watching and would ALWAYS request your parts. I personally ask for the new oil filter and date it myself with a sharpie "for my own records". Fluids changes can be checks by examining the dipstick for the color of the replacement fluids and lastly if they don't meet your expectations, refuse to pay until proof has been furnished, the last thing they want is a car blocking the bay or the police to show up if they are indeed crooks, too much attention and the last thing a crook wants is attention. > > Trust is overrated, knowing for sure is always the best route to take and if you're too sorry, too unskilled, or like me, lack the space for a backyard buddy so that I could easily do those routine things myself, then it is your responsibility to look out for number one. Nobody else ever will. > > Michael in Savannah > > > On 8/24/07, Art Stephens<artstephens(a)charter.net> wrote: >> Thank you Scott. I don't do business with them and it looks like >>I never will! >> >> Art >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "scott black"<timepiecepr2(a)yahoo.com> >> To: "DeTomaso A"<detomaso(a)realbig.com> >> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 7:53 PM >> Subject: [DeTomaso] Jiffy Lube - NPC >> >> >>> >>> 4 minute video of California Jiffy Lubes at work....do business >>>with >> any >>> Jiffy's in your town? >>> >>> >>> >> http://mfile.akamai.com/12924/wmv/vod.ibsys.com/2006/0503/9152183.200 >> k >> .asx >>> Scott Black >>> >>> >>> TimePiece Public Relations >>> Dallas - Houston - New York >>> www.timepiecepr.com >>> >>> --------------------------------- >>> Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! >>> TV. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA >>> >>> Archive Search Engine Now Available at >>> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/ >>> >>> DeTomaso mailing list >>> DeTomaso(a)list.realbig.com >>> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.4/969 - Release Date: >> 8/23/2007 >>> 4:04 PM >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA >> >> Archive Search Engine Now Available at >> http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/ >> >> DeTomaso mailing list >> DeTomaso(a)list.realbig.com >> http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> > > > -- > Michael L. Shortt > Savannah, Georgia > www.michaelshortt.com > michael(a)michaelshortt.com > > > This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, > 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally > privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of > this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender > that you have received this message in error, then delete it. Thank > you _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA > > Archive Search Engine Now Available at > http://www.realbig.com/detomaso/ > > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)list.realbig.com > http://list.realbig.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed > 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > _______________________________________________ > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed > 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2016.0.7597 / Virus Database: 4568/12278 - Release Date: > 05/22/16 > > _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above.

4 3

Factory deck lid shock mounts And bumpers
by Ed Mendez 24 May '16

24 May '16

Can someone please send me either schematics or blueprints or pictures of the factory decklid mounts for a 1972 serial number 3072. Engine bay side? They are either welded on top of the engine bay (early) or welded and braced from underneath (later). My car is in the body shop and the factory location for the deck lid shocks were missing jerry rigged and non stock. Here's a picture from serial number 36xx blue car, and then from a push button black car. When did the factory change over to the new style of mounting location? My other car 2152 has the early style as pictured. The candy apple car. Also, need the factory locations for the rubber bumper on each side on top of the tail light housings. Thanks Ed Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus

2 1

Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law
by kdb＠kbyrnes.com 24 May '16

24 May '16

Talk to the president. Please. ------ Original message------From: Ed MendezDate: Tue, May 24, 2016 11:27 AMTo: j g;Cc: Ken Green;kdb@kbyrnes.com;DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com;Subject:Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law What does this have to do with Panteras or DeTomaso? Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus> On 24/05/2016, at 08:20, j g via DeTomaso wrote:> > ALL> Just for what it's worth. There is case law showing that digitization> of copy writed material is by itself not illegal. That ; that applies> to part or whole documents . Case law states that unless the material> is used in it's entirety in only some limited cases of commercial gain> does the copy write apply. Any use of the material for research,> private usage , and in some cases like song or speech/ book parodies> can be used entirely under the free use clause even of for commercial> purposes . ( the original artist or author must some how be given> credit or is obvious) The requirements for digitization to allow search> engines or; like this list to make available to persons in the pursuit> of knowledge and or restoration projects has fully been determined by> the supreme court under case law to be legal under fair use.> Next any site such as this site that is open to individuals posting> their opinions, their information whether new , unique or rehashed copy> writed material because of the intent and purpose of this site is not> for economic gain but educational and social use , That is enough to> make the posting of information be fair use. Next , what one may not> understand is that after a 12 year period all documents associated with> production of equipment (almost all kinds) has to be made available> to after market and anyone requesting them from the original company to> allow maintenance of obsoleted materials.> I personally have gotten the original engineering documents for> Corvair parts even parts that were not ever put into production ( GM> engineering doc) for ring and pinion parts to reverse the rotation of> the manual transaxle for mid engine applications to prevent pinion> failure operating always in coast . next I have also gotten complete> casting drawings from for Ford For their duratec V6 Lincoln ls cylinder> heads on a request for motorsports support. ( best to know what the> design casting wall locations and thicknesses are supposed to be rather> than cut up too many expensive heads. ) . All were sent with the> notation of released under FAIR USE of the patent and copy write laws .> Posting of any material not specifically applied for copy write or> poors mans copy write ( copy of material sealed in a certified mail and> mailed to one's self) has been determined to not be explicitly> covered under copy write and is fair use every time.> These are not legal opinions but restating of information contained in> the public record of the fair use doctrine with regards to copy write.> Just remember all your book reports and any papers you wrote in college> , you were allowed to use both verbatim as well as reworded information> not your own creation by placing sub-notations or direct reference> giving credit to the original source or you source and author . So> free use is not a new concept it has been around for quite some time.> John Garcia> __________________________________________________________________> > From: Ken Green via DeTomaso > To: "kdb(a)kbyrnes.com" ;> "DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com" > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 12:18 AM> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law> I know a lot more about patents and trademarks, and the Internet has> become the wild west of IP law.> I would think that because the "former poster" in fact posted the> content and knowingly put it into a searchable data base, his only> right would be against someone who copied and used the content in> another fashion. What he is saying is something like telling> everyone> he ever sent an email or letter to that they now have to delete the> email or destroy the letter. Maybe offer to send an email to all the> forum members informing them that member X may sue them if they> repost> any of his posts?> The issue with stuff like this is that occasionally you run into a> total jerk who threatens to sue. IP law suits are so expensive and> stressful that you usually lose even if you win.> I can try to run this past an experienced IP litigator I know and see> what he thinks. There should be case law by now that applies.> Ken> __________________________________________________________________> From: "[1]kdb(a)kbyrnes.com" <[2]kdb(a)kbyrnes.com>> To: [3]kenn_green(a)yahoo.com; [4]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 8:46 PM> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law> Thanks Ken. The issue is a disgruntled former poster of the email> list> has sent me a request to purge every post he has made to the list.> He> is claiming he owns the copyright to anything he has written. Is he> correct?> Thanks,> Kurt> ------ Original message------> From: Ken Green> Date: Mon, May 23, 2016 11:27 PM> To: Kurt Byrnes[1];[5]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com;> Subject:Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law> Generally, you are not free to use a copyrighted work in its> entirely,> or substantial portions, but under the fair use, you can copy short> sections of it if you are commenting on them, not reproducing the> work> as a whole. If it's something simple like a photo or painting, you> cannot reproduce it in its original entirely, but I think there was a> case where the court found that a low resolution thumb nail version> of> as copyrighted painting did not infringe because it would never be> blown up and used as art.> This looks pretty good:> [2]Using materials from the Internet> [3]image> [4]Using materials from the Internet> Using materials from the Internet> [5]View on [6]copyright.lib.utexas.edu> Preview by Yahoo> __________________________________________________________________> From: Kurt Byrnes [7]>> To:[8]mailto:%[6]20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 1:41 PM> Subject: [DeTomaso] Copyright law> If you or anyone you know could please advise me in regards to> copyrights of material posted to the list, please contact me ASAP!> Sheesh!> _______________________________________________> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes> DeTomaso mailing list> [9][7]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> [10][8]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)> use the links above.> References> 1. mailto:;[9]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 2. [10]https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html> 3. [11]https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html> 4. [12]https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html> 5. [13]https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html> 6. [14]http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/> 7. mailto:%[15]3Ckdb@kbyrnes.com> 8. mailto:%[16]20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 9. mailto:[17]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 10. [18]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> _______________________________________________> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes> DeTomaso mailing list> [19]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)> use the links above.> > References> > 1. mailto:kdb@kbyrnes.com> 2. mailto:kdb@kbyrnes.com> 3. mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com> 4. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 5. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 6. mailto:20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 7. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 8. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> 9. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 10. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html> 11. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html> 12. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html> 13. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html> 14. http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/> 15. mailto:3Ckdb@kbyrnes.com> 16. mailto:20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 17. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> 19. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> _______________________________________________> > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes> DeTomaso mailing list> DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Talk to the president. Please. ------ Original message------ From: Ed Mendez Date: Tue, May 24, 2016 11:27 AM To: j g; Cc: Ken Green[1];kdb@kbyrnes.com[2];DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com; Subject:Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law What does this have to do with Panteras or DeTomaso? Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus> On 24/05/2016, at 08:20, j g via DeTomaso wrote:> > ALL> Just for what it 's worth. There is case law showing that digitization> of copy writed materia l is by itself not illegal. That ; that applies> to part or whole documents . Case law states that unless the material> is used in it's entirety in only som e limited cases of commercial gain> does the copy write apply. Any use of the material for research,> private usage , and in some cases like song or speech / book parodies> can be used entirely under the free use clause even of for co mmercial> purposes . ( the original artist or author must some how be given> credit or is obvious) The requirements for digitization to allow search> eng ines or; like this list to make available to persons in the pursuit> of knowl edge and or restoration projects has fully been determined by> the supreme cou rt under case law to be legal under fair use.> Next any site such as this site that is open to individuals posting> their opinions, their information whethe r new , unique or rehashed copy> writed material because of the intent and pu rpose of this site is not> for economic gain but educational and social use , That is enough to> make the posting of information be fair use. Next , what o ne may not> understand is that after a 12 year period all documents associated with> production of equipment (almost all kinds) has to be made available> to after market and anyone requesting them from the original company to> all ow maintenance of obsoleted materials.> I personally have gotten the original engineering documents for> Corvair parts even parts that were not ever put in to production ( GM> engineering doc) for ring and pinion parts to reverse the rotation of> the manual transaxle for mid engine applications to prevent pini on> failure operating always in coast . next I have also gotten complete> ca sting drawings from for Ford For their duratec V6 Lincoln ls cylinder> heads o n a request for motorsports support. ( best to know what the> design casting w all locations and thicknesses are supposed to be rather> than cut up too many expensive heads. ) . All were sent with the> notation of released under FAIR U SE of the patent and copy write laws .> Posting of any material not specifical ly applied for copy write or> poors mans copy write ( copy of material sealed in a certified mail and> mailed to one's self) has been determined to not be explicitly> covered under copy write and is fair use every time.> These are not legal opinions but restating of information contained in> the public rec ord of the fair use doctrine with regards to copy write.> Just remember all yo ur book reports and any papers you wrote in college> , you were allowed to use both verbatim as well as reworded information> not your own creation by placi ng sub-notations or direct reference> giving credit to the original source or you source and author . So> free use is not a new concept it has been around for quite some time.> John Garcia> ______________________________________ ____________________________> > From: Ken Green via DeTomaso > To: [3]"kdb@k byrnes.com" ;> [4]"DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com" > Sent: Tuesday, May 24 , 2016 12:18 AM> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law> I know a lot more about patents and trademarks, and the Internet has> become the wild west of IP law.> I would think that because the "former poster" in fact posted the> content and knowingly put it into a searchable data base, his only> righ t would be against someone who copied and used the content in> another fashi on. What he is saying is something like telling> everyone> he ever sent a n email or letter to that they now have to delete the> email or destroy the letter. Maybe offer to send an email to all the> forum members informing th em that member X may sue them if they> repost> any of his posts?> The issue with stuff like this is that occasionally you run into a> total jerk w ho threatens to sue. IP law suits are so expensive and> stressful that you usually lose even if you win.> I can try to run this past an experienced IP litigator I know and see> what he thinks. There should be case law by now t hat applies.> Ken> ___________________________________________________ _______________> From: "[1[5]]kdb(a)kbyrnes.com" <[2[6]]kdb(a)kbyrnes.com>> To: [3[7]]kenn_green(a)yahoo.com; [4[8]]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent : Monday, May 23, 2016 8:46 PM> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law> T hanks Ken. The issue is a disgruntled former poster of the email> list> h as sent me a request to purge every post he has made to the list.> He> is claiming he owns the copyright to anything he has written. Is he> correct?> Thanks,> Kurt> ------ Original message------> From: Ken Green> Date: Mon, May 23, 2016 11:27 PM> To: Kurt Byrnes[1];[5[9]]DeTomaso@serv er.detomasolist.com;> Subject:Re: [DeTomaso] Copyright law> Generally, y ou are not free to use a copyrighted work in its> entirely,> or substantia l portions, but under the fair use, you can copy short> sections of it if yo u are commenting on them, not reproducing the> work> as a whole. If it's something simple like a photo or painting, you> cannot reproduce it in its o riginal entirely, but I think there was a> case where the court found that a low resolution thumb nail version> of> as copyrighted painting did not in fringe because it would never be> blown up and used as art.> This looks pretty good:> [2]Using materials from the Internet> [3]image> [4]Using materials from the Internet> Using materi als from the Internet> [5]View on [6][10]copyright.lib.utexas.edu> Previ ew by Yahoo> _____________________________________________________________ _____> From: Kurt Byrnes [7]>> To:[8]mailto:%[6[11]]20DeTomaso@server.de tomasolist.com> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 1:41 PM> Subject: [DeTomaso] Copyright law> If you or anyone you know could please advise me in regards t o> copyrights of material posted to the list, please contact me ASAP!> S heesh!> _______________________________________________> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes> DeTomaso mailing list> [9][7[12]]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> [10][ 8][13]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> To manage yo ur subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)> use the links abo ve.> References> 1. mailto:;[9[14]]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 2 . [10][15]https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html> 3. [11][16]https:/ /copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html> 4. [12][17]https://copyright.lib.ut exas.edu/useofweb.html> 5. [13][18]https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb .html> 6. [14][19]http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/> 7. mailto:%[15[20]]3 Ckdb(a)kbyrnes.com> 8. mailto:%[16[21]]20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 9. mailto:[17[22]]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 10. [18][23]http://serv er.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> _______________________________ ________________> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA> Posted emails mu st not exceed 1.5 Megabytes> DeTomaso mailing list> [19[24]]DeTomaso@server. detomasolist.com> [20][25]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/deto maso> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)> use the links above.> > References> > 1. mailto[26]:kdb@kbyrnes.com> 2. mai lto[27]:kdb@kbyrnes.com> 3. mailto[28]:kenn_green@yahoo.com> 4. mailto[29]:D eTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> 5. mailto[30]:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.co m> 6. mailto[31]:20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 7. mailto[32]:DeTomaso@ server.detomasolist.com> 8. [33]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinf o/detomaso> 9. mailto[34]:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 10. [35]https://c opyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html> 11. [36]https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu /useofweb.html> 12. [37]https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html> 13. [3 8]https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html> 14. [39]http://copyright.lib. utexas.edu/> 15. mailto[40]:3Ckdb@kbyrnes.com> 16. mailto[41]:20DeTomaso@serve r.detomasolist.com> 17. mailto[42]:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> 18. [43]h ttp://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> 19. mailto[44]:DeTomas o(a)server.detomasolist.com> 20. [45]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listi nfo/detomaso> _______________________________________________> > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes> DeTomaso mailing list>[46] DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> [47]http://server.detomasol ist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> > To manage your subscription (change email a ddress, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. References 1. mailto:;kdb@kbyrnes.com 2. mailto:;DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 3. mailto:/ 4. mailto:/ 5. mailto:]kdb@kbyrnes.com 6. mailto:]kdb@kbyrnes.com 7. mailto:]kenn_green@yahoo.com 8. mailto:]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/ 11. mailto:]20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 12. mailto:]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 13. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 14. mailto:]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 15. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 16. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 17. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 18. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 19. http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/ 20. mailto:]3Ckdb@kbyrnes.com 21. mailto:]20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. mailto:]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 23. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 24. mailto:]DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 25. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 26. mailto::kdb@kbyrnes.com 27. mailto::kdb@kbyrnes.com 28. mailto::kenn_green@yahoo.com 29. mailto::DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 30. mailto::DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 31. mailto::20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 32. mailto::DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 33. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 34. mailto::DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 35. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 36. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 37. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 38. https://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/useofweb.html 39. http://copyright.lib.utexas.edu/ 40. mailto::3Ckdb@kbyrnes.com 41. mailto::20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 42. mailto::DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 43. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 44. mailto::DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 45. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso 46. mailto:%20DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 47. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

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