June 2016 - DeTomaso - detomasolist.com

Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Palooza 2016 Rocked It!
by cengles＠cox.net 13 Jun '16

13 Jun '16

Dear Scott, Wow! Pantera-palooza indeed!!! Warmest regards, Chuck Engles On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 5:47 AM, Scott Couchman via DeTomaso wrote: > 51 Panteras on the lawn at Team Pantera Orange County's Pantera > Palooza Jamboree and Picnic! Special guests Chip Foose, past POCA > president John Buckman, POCA store selling lots of clothing/mugs etc, > book signing by author Wally Wyss, membership drive, hot buffet > lunch.....great day here in Irvine, CA. Plan to join us next year for > more deTomaso fun! > Prayers for Marshall Smith, President San Diego Panteras, who had an > accident on his way home unfortunately. Best to him and his > Pushbutton! > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes > DeTomaso mailing list > DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) > use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the > list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive > or approve the archiving of list messages.

1 0

Shimms to make narrower shock absorber bushings fit between ears?
by Ken Green 13 Jun '16

13 Jun '16

I have new shock absorbers that came with bushings to wide to easily fit between the mount ears. I received a drawing from Joe Byre (thanks) that showed the ears to be 46 +- .5 mm, or about 1 and 13/16. The shock bushings are 1 and 7/8, 1/16 wider. While I could muscle them in and then tighten the bolts, the result is likely to cause early shock failure because the shocks cannot be so tight that they cannot slightly pivot, and being pinched between the ears may cause early failure (confirmed by the manufacturer). I also have a set of 1 and 7/16 bushings, so I could use 3/8 inches of washer, etc. and properly fill the gap. McMaster has oil embedded thrust bearings in 1/8 and 1/16 for a little over a buck, so only about $7 per shock, only about $30 total. This seems like a good solution, any comments? Ken I have new shock absorbers that came with bushings to wide to easily fit between the mount ears. I received a drawing from Joe Byre (thanks) that showed the ears to be 46 +- .5 mm, or about 1 and 13/16. The shock bushings are 1 and 7/8, 1/16 wider. While I could muscle them in and then tighten the bolts, the result is likely to cause early shock failure because the shocks cannot be so tight that they cannot slightly pivot, and being pinched between the ears may cause early failure (confirmed by the manufacturer). I also have a set of 1 and 7/16 bushings, so I could use 3/8 inches of washer, etc. and properly fill the gap. McMaster has oil embedded thrust bearings in 1/8 and 1/16 for a little over a buck, so only about $7 per shock, only about $30 total. This seems like a good solution, any comments? Ken

2 5

'63 Cortina "De Tomaso"
by The DeTomaso Registry Guy 12 Jun '16

12 Jun '16

Anyone know about the Cortina De Tomaso ? Chuck The De Tomaso Registry Guy http://www.detomasoregistry.org/Members/ProvaMoMemMain.asp Anyone know about the Cortina De Tomaso ? Chuck The De Tomaso Registry Guy [1]http://www.detomasoregistry.org/Members/ProvaMoMemMain.asp References 1. http://www.detomasoregistry.org/Members/ProvaMoMemMain.asp

1 0

very rare Pantera picture
by Ed Mendez 12 Jun '16

12 Jun '16

From a Pantera friend of mine in Belgium. On peut reconnaître Hervé Regout, Jean Graton, Pierre Dieudonné, Emerson Fitipaldi, etc… ! From a Pantera friend of mine in Belgium. On peut reconnaitre Herve Regout, Jean Graton, Pierre Dieudonne, Emerson Fitipaldi, etc... ! [cid:29957AFD-D273-4BF6-9730-C4094863610A@Home]

3 2

Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
by Tomas Gunnarsson 12 Jun '16

12 Jun '16

I'm rather confident that the Ford units are the same interior core diameter, possibly a different length, as the universal coolers sold by Mocal and others. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Jeff Cobb [jeffcobb1(a)me.com] Sent: 12/6/2016 8:17:14 PM To: kenn_green(a)yahoo.com Cc: jeffcobb1@me.com;ehpantera@yahoo.com;MikeLDrew@aol.com;guson@home.se;det omaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Ken, Laminovas do a great job of heat rejection. The Laminovas I have and would like to use are about 43mm exterior core dia by 332 long. I would believe the Fords are smaller. Their best use would be to have, as used in some cars, an dynamic a/c freon/oil or coolant or turbo/supercharged pressured intake interface. Here is some info, http://97.74.32.155/files/laminova.pdf Jeff Cobb On Jun 12, 2016, at 12:22 PM, Ken Green < kenn_green(a)yahoo.com <mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com> > wrote: Jeff, Do you think the "Laminova" type oil coolers the Ford used do a very good job? I don't think the Ford coolers have the cooling capacity of the coolers made by Laminova? Seems like they also restrict coolant flow. Ken _____ From: Jeff Cobb < jeffcobb1(a)me.com <mailto:jeffcobb1@me.com> > To: mark skwarek < ehpantera(a)yahoo.com <mailto:ehpantera@yahoo.com> >; Mike Drew < MikeLDrew(a)aol.com <mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com> >; Tomas Gunnarsson < guson(a)home.se <mailto:guson@home.se> >; " detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> " < detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Interesting thread. It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that heat exchangers were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than the vehicles speed. Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the hot metal fins. So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area, maybe by 1/4th. Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants 210 F, though the oil heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the coolants so that at extreme temps the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant. After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant temps so a larger reserve heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be present so to not allow dangerous oil temps, ie; 280F. The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly whereas coolant takes heat from surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated heat or metals that capture/hold heat from friction. Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air. Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid because of the high surface area and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together. Keep cool, Jeff Cobb On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:26 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso < detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > wrote: > My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear wheel. > I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran some > ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at SSCC > last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump > running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see what > happens this year. > Mark > 5481 > On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso > < detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > wrote: > Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a > monumental > act of wishful thinking.... > Mike > Sent from my iPad > On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[1][1] guson(a)home.se <mailto:guson@home.se> > > wrote: > What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. > I > doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that > position > is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. > Tomas > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> > From: Scott Mead Photography > [[2][2] scott(a)scottmeadphotography.com <mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com> ] > Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM > To: [3][3] demongusta(a)gmail.com <mailto:demongusta@gmail.com> ;[4][4] MikeLDrew(a)aol.com <mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com> > Cc: [5][5] detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature > Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a > reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler > mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy > was > that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through > the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, > I > have no idea, but it was a clean setup. > FWIW, > Scott > -----Original Message----- > From: DeTomaso > [[6]mailto:[6] detomaso-bounces(a)server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com> ] On > Behalf Of Jack Donahue > Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM > To: Mike Drew > Cc: [7][7] detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature > Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be > an > air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C > condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original > condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get > the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds > good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few > years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on > hot days in traffic. >> On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso > <[8][8] detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com> > wrote: >> >> AJ, >> >> Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at > freeway speeds? >> >> Mike >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton > <[9][9] asajay(a)asajay.com <mailto:asajay@asajay.com> > > wrote: >> >>> Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this > topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290. > That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the > information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around > 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run > Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but > I > don't have the spec in front of me. >>> >>> For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a > racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 > class > and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right > around > 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need > to > add an oil cooler. >>> >>> Your mileage may vary, >>> Asa Jay >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10] demongusta(a)gmail.com <mailto:demongusta@gmail.com> >: >>> >>>> Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and > topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water > pump, > thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would > pursue > the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of > an > oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project > (get > in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I > need > some feedback. All input is appreciated. >>>> #4348 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>> [11][11] DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com <mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com> >>>> [12][12] http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, > etc.) use the links above. >>>> >>&g === message truncated === I'm rather confident that the Ford units are the same interior core diameter, possibly a different length, as the universal coolers sold by Mocal and others. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Jeff Cobb [jeffcobb1(a)me.com] Sent: 12/6/2016 8:17:14 PM To: kenn_green(a)yahoo.com Cc: jeffcobb1@me.com;ehpantera@yahoo.com;MikeLDrew@aol.com;guson@home.se;de tomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Ken, Laminovas do a great job of heat rejection. The Laminovas I have and would like to use are about 43mm exterior core dia by 332 long. I would believe the Fords are smaller. Their best use would be to have, as used in some cars, an dynamic a/c freon/oil or coolant or turbo/supercharged pressured intake interface. Here is some info, [1]http://97.74.32.155/files/laminova.pdf Jeff Cobb On Jun 12, 2016, at 12:22 PM, Ken Green <[2]kenn_green(a)yahoo.com> wrote: Jeff, Do you think the "Laminova" type oil coolers the Ford used do a very good job? I don't think the Ford coolers have the cooling capacity of the coolers made by Laminova? Seems like they also restrict coolant flow. Ken __________________________________________________________________ From: Jeff Cobb <[3]jeffcobb1(a)me.com> To: mark skwarek <[4]ehpantera(a)yahoo.com>; Mike Drew <[5]MikeLDrew(a)aol.com>; Tomas Gunnarsson <[6]guson(a)home.se>; "[7]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com" <[8]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Interesting thread. It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that heat exchangers were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than the vehicles speed. Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the hot metal fins. So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area, maybe by 1/4th. Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants 210 F, though the oil heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the coolants so that at extreme temps the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant. After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant temps so a larger reserve heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be present so to not allow dangerous oil temps, ie; 280F. The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly whereas coolant takes heat from surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated heat or metals that capture/hold heat from friction. Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air. Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid because of the high surface area and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together. Keep cool, Jeff Cobb On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:26 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <[9]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear wheel. > I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran some > ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at SSCC > last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump > running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see what > happens this year. > Mark > 5481 > On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso > <[10]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a > monumental > act of wishful thinking.... > Mike > Sent from my iPad > On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[1][1][11]guson(a)home.se> > wrote: > What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. > I > doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that > position > is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. > Tomas > <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> > From: Scott Mead Photography > [[2][2][12]scott(a)scottmeadphotography.com] > Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM > To: [3][3][13]demongusta@gmail.com;[4][4][14]MikeLDrew@aol.com > Cc: [5][5][15]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature > Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a > reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler > mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy > was > that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through > the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, > I > have no idea, but it was a clean setup. > FWIW, > Scott > -----Original Message----- > From: DeTomaso > [[6]mailto:[6][16]detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On > Behalf Of Jack Donahue > Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM > To: Mike Drew > Cc: [7][7][17]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature > Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be > an > air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C > condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original > condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get > the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds > good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few > years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on > hot days in traffic. >> On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso > <[8][8][18]detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: >> >> AJ, >> >> Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at > freeway speeds? >> >> Mike >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton > <[9][9][19]asajay(a)asajay.com> > wrote: >> >>> Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this > topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290. > That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the > information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around > 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run > Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but > I > don't have the spec in front of me. >>> >>> For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a > racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 > class > and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right > around > 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need > to > add an oil cooler. >>> >>> Your mileage may vary, >>> Asa Jay >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10][20]demongusta(a)gmail.com>: >>> >>>> Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and > topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water > pump, > thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would > pursue > the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of > an > oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project > (get > in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I > need > some feedback. All input is appreciated. >>>> #4348 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>>> [11][11][21]DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com >>>> [12][12][22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>>> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, > etc.) use the links above. >>>> >>&g === message truncated === References 1. http://97.74.32.155/files/laminova.pdf 2. mailto:kenn_green@yahoo.com 3. mailto:jeffcobb1@me.com 4. mailto:ehpantera@yahoo.com 5. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 6. mailto:guson@home.se 7. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 8. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 9. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 10. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 11. mailto:guson@home.se 12. mailto:scott@scottmeadphotography.com 13. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 14. mailto:MikeLDrew@aol.com 15. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 16. mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com 17. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 18. mailto:detomaso@server.detomasolist.com 19. mailto:asajay@asajay.com 20. mailto:demongusta@gmail.com 21. mailto:DeTomaso@server.detomasolist.com 22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso

2 1

Oil temps
by David 12 Jun '16

12 Jun '16

"Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a monumental act of wishful thinking...." Really? Guess I will have to do a study on air flow at the oil cooler. Mine seems to work well. What I DO know: air flow at the rear a/c grill is almost zero at highway speeds. Don't put a cooler there without a fan. Search and research, there are no universal answers. You can quote me. David in Durango "Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a monumental act of wishful thinking...." Really? Guess I will have to do a study on air flow at the oil cooler. Mine seems to work well. What I DO know: air flow at the rear a/c grill is almost zero at highway speeds. Don't put a cooler there without a fan. Search and research, there are no universal answers. You can quote me. David in Durango

1 0

Oil temps
by David 12 Jun '16

12 Jun '16

Jack, First step is oil temp gauge. Don't know how many folks here have stated they "need" a oil cooler but don't know what oil temps they are dealing with. Next: comparing numbers on this list might be interesting but it certainly isn't gospel. Driving style (hoon or adult driven), uphill/downhill, gauge/sender, ambient temp, final drive ratio and so on. Buy me a steak and lobster, I'll tell you about gauges and senders. For those collecting data points: Oil temps on public roads - 160-180 (yeah, lecture me on cold oil) Oil temps at BBORR(59 miles at 95mph) or a mile event (one mile standing start) - Sometime 200 degrees. My car: Hall oil cooler with a 16 inch long cooler (way too much, imo- about 3x the Miata cooler), 350ish rwhp, 3.2 final drive [1] That is my experience . . . David in Durango (love the "Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA" [1] for those of you that told me the 3.2 gear would "ruin" my car . . . my standing start mile speeds are UP 6mph! Yeah, its ruined. Jack, First step is oil temp gauge. Don't know how many folks here have stated they "need" a oil cooler but don't know what oil temps they are dealing with. Next: comparing numbers on this list might be interesting but it certainly isn't gospel. Driving style (hoon or adult driven), uphill/downhill, gauge/sender, ambient temp, final drive ratio and so on. Buy me a steak and lobster, I'll tell you about gauges and senders. For those collecting data points: Oil temps on public roads - 160-180 (yeah, lecture me on cold oil) Oil temps at BBORR(59 miles at 95mph) or a mile event (one mile standing start) - Sometime 200 degrees. My car: Hall oil cooler with a 16 inch long cooler (way too much, imo- about 3x the Miata cooler), 350ish rwhp, 3.2 final drive [1] That is my experience . . . David in Durango (love the "Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA" [1] for those of you that told me the 3.2 gear would "ruin" my car . . . my standing start mile speeds are UP 6mph! Yeah, its ruined.

1 0

Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
by Tomas Gunnarsson 12 Jun '16

12 Jun '16

What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. I doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that position is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Scott Mead Photography [scott(a)scottmeadphotography.com] Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM To: demongusta@gmail.com;MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup. FWIW, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic. > On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > > AJ, > > Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at freeway speeds? > > Mike > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay(a)asajay.com> wrote: > >> Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290. That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have the spec in front of me. >> >> For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an oil cooler. >> >> Your mileage may vary, >> Asa Jay >> >> >> >> >> Quoting Jack Donahue <demongusta(a)gmail.com>: >> >>> Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water pump, thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need some feedback. All input is appreciated. >>> #4348 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>> DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com >>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. >>> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. >> >> >> -- >> Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home >> ****************************************************** >> http://www.w7tsc.org >> http://www.teampanteraracing.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >> DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com >> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. >> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed > 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins. I doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that position is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp. Tomas <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-----> From: Scott Mead Photography [scott(a)scottmeadphotography.com] Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM To: demongusta@gmail.com;MikeLDrew@aol.com Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup. FWIW, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic. > On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > > AJ, > > Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at freeway speeds? > > Mike > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay(a)asajay.com> wrote: > >> Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290. That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have the spec in front of me. >> >> For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an oil cooler. >> >> Your mileage may vary, >> Asa Jay >> >> >> >> >> Quoting Jack Donahue <demongusta(a)gmail.com>: >> >>> Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water pump, thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need some feedback. All input is appreciated. >>> #4348 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>> DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com >>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. >>> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. >> >> >> -- >> Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home >> ****************************************************** >> http://www.w7tsc.org >> http://www.teampanteraracing.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >> DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com >> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. >> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed > 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

6 8

Oil Temperatures
by DtomasoCat＠aol.com 12 Jun '16

12 Jun '16

Need to chime in on this subject.... I have a feeling that most of the Pantera's out there have absolutely no need for an oil cooler. I live in New Mexico and it gets hot. Just ran the Pantera yesterday in 95+ degree weather. My car has a 10 quart baffled oil pan and I run 10W40 oil (non-synthetic). I use a Pantera Performance's two pass radiator (Ron Davis design). I RARELY ever see 200 degrees on my oil temperatures. The only time I ever see temperatures that high is when I get into slow moving traffic (city driving). Running at highway speeds yesterday my water temperature was 170 degrees and the oil temperature at about 180-185 degrees. That is on a 95 degree day. I have two cooling fans for the radiator that are both manually controlled and at highway speeds they are always turned OFF. The only time I use a fan (I control each fan with a separate switch) is in stop and go traffic. It is quite rare that I run both fans at the same time. I drive the car hard and can only recall a handful of times that the oil temperature reached 200 or higher (NEVER at highway speeds or faster). I would highly recommend a 10 quart oil pan for those wanting to keep the oil cool and a nicely designed radiator doesn't hurt either. Hope this info helps! Jim Need to chime in on this subject.... I have a feeling that most of the Pantera's out there have absolutely no need for an oil cooler. I live in New Mexico and it gets hot. Just ran the Pantera yesterday in 95+ degree weather. My car has a 10 quart baffled oil pan and I run 10W40 oil (non-synthetic). I use a Pantera Performance's two pass radiator (Ron Davis design). I RARELY ever see 200 degrees on my oil temperatures. The only time I ever see temperatures that high is when I get into slow moving traffic (city driving). Running at highway speeds yesterday my water temperature was 170 degrees and the oil temperature at about 180-185 degrees. That is on a 95 degree day. I have two cooling fans for the radiator that are both manually controlled and at highway speeds they are always turned OFF. The only time I use a fan (I control each fan with a separate switch) is in stop and go traffic. It is quite rare that I run both fans at the same time. I drive the car hard and can only recall a handful of times that the oil temperature reached 200 or higher (NEVER at highway speeds or faster). I would highly recommend a 10 quart oil pan for those wanting to keep the oil cool and a nicely designed radiator doesn't hurt either. Hope this info helps! Jim

3 2

Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
by Jim Gray 12 Jun '16

12 Jun '16

Interesting, because my first Pantera had just such a setup too. That was back in the early 80's. Always seemed to work. Jim Gray -----Original Message----- From: Scott Mead Photography Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 4:56 PM To: 'Jack Donahue' ; 'Mike Drew' Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy was that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked, I have no idea, but it was a clean setup. FWIW, Scott -----Original Message----- From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces@server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf Of Jack Donahue Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM To: Mike Drew Cc: detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be an air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get the feeling, however, that it’s a waste of time, which sounds good/great to me. The old “track-pushing-hard” syndrome left me a few years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on hot days in traffic. > On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso > <detomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com> wrote: > > AJ, > > Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at > freeway speeds? > > Mike > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay(a)asajay.com> wrote: > >> Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this topic, I >> was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290. That's a >> nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the information >> makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around 230. People >> smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run Amsoil full >> synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but I don't have >> the spec in front of me. >> >> For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a racer >> will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120 class and >> spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right around 230, >> so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need to add an >> oil cooler. >> >> Your mileage may vary, >> Asa Jay >> >> >> >> >> Quoting Jack Donahue <demongusta(a)gmail.com>: >> >>> Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and topic of >>> some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water pump, >>> thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would pursue >>> the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of an >>> oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project (get >>> in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I need >>> some feedback. All input is appreciated. >>> #4348 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >>> DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com >>> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >>> >>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) >>> use the links above. >>> >>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any >>> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. >>> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >>> approve the archiving of list messages. >> >> >> -- >> Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home >> ****************************************************** >> http://www.w7tsc.org >> http://www.teampanteraracing.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not >> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list >> DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com >> http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso >> >> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use >> the links above. >> >> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any >> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. >> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or >> approve the archiving of list messages. > _______________________________________________ > > > Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed > 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com > http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use > the links above. > > Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any > message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. > They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or > approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages. _______________________________________________ Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list DeTomaso(a)server.detomasolist.com http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the links above. Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve the archiving of list messages.

1 0