[DeTomaso] No Pantera Content / Elect, Cars

[Larry Stock]

What if you don't fully discharge your battery before re-charging?
Assuming that you drive your EV daily something less than 300 miles, 3000 daily charges is 8.2 years, or is it somewhat extended, or??
Larry

On 11/21/22, 8:52 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Julian Kift" <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:

       I'm actually heavily involved in EV battery recycling currently, my
       data suggests the Honda Insight is a Nickel Metal Hydride battery,
       which are much more prone to conditioning over time than Li-ion.

       The typical EV Li-ion battery is good for 3,000 charges, that is close
       to 1 million miles assuming a 300-mile range. At the end of EV life
       60-70% capacity threshold there will still be short commuters that are
       willing to live with the reduced range, alternatively there is already
       a growing industry for second life repurposing of batteries for
       stationery (UPS backup) type applications where charge & discharge is
       infrequent.

       As Jeff sated there are rapid advancements in battery technology, the
       key is making them cost effective to mass produce. That said with the
       number of new Gigafactories coming online in the US it will be a while
       before the industry switches to a whole new battery chemistry, more
       likely to be adopted and proven by the niche players initially.

       Julian
         __________________________________________________________________

       From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
       Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
       Sent: Monday, November 21, 2022 4:28 AM
       To: Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
       Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
       Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] No Pantera Content / Elect, Cars

       The battery life/cost turned me off.  Even if you take it to the
       extreme (my Honda Insight), it would still have been cheaper to buy a
       normal compact.
       The car was $20K in 2006.  The battery replacement cost at the dealer
       was $4K, and it would last about 70,000 miles.
       When the car was new, it would do about 75mpg.  When the battery was
       dead, it would do about 55-60mpg.  As the car aged, it lost about
       5-10mpg.  The lifetime mpg was something like 55mpg for 250K miles and
       4 battery packs (replaced 3 times, and the last one was dead when we
       traded it in).
       The battery part of the hybrid added about 15-20mpg.  It was drivable
       with a dead battery, but it was really slow.
       This was with a lithium-ion battery pack, and unless I'm missing
       something, the current "improved" battery is still a lithium-ion
       battery.  Maybe they are calling 70K miles unlimited life.
       That being said, I recently rode in a friend's Tesla Model S dual
       motor.  It is impressive.  I would love to have one - but not because
       it's cheaper or because it's better for the environment.
       On 11/20/22, 12:17 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Jeff Detrich"
       <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
       jjdetrich at gmail.com> wrote:
              Agree that there are many differentA perspectives and anecdotal
              evidence,A as there shouldA be. My take is that development of
       EVs and
              development of the electric grid to support them need to happen
       in
              parallel. Doing everything linearly will take too much time. And
       one
              thing that is really helping is technological advancement inA
       the
              competitive free market sector, esp for batteries. Repairable
              batteries, quick charge batteries, cheaper batteries, less rare
       metal
              batteries, higher capacity batteries, renewableA energy storage
              batteries are all on the horizon. Expect hiccups along the
       way.A  But
              in the meantime, if you can't justify the technology now,
       hybrids might
              be an alternative. A friend in Phoenix bought a Lexus NX hybrid
       SUV
              late last year and is getting over 40 mpg in town vs 26 in the
              non-hybrid.
              Jeff
              6559
              On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 3:41 PM Ken Green via DeTomaso
              <[1]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
                A  A I wonder if we will ever hear the truth any more?A
       Listening
                to both
                A  A sides, it sounds like one is in an alternative
       universe.A  It
                seems like
                A  A electric cars can be a good thing for people with a short
                enough
                A  A commute to do it all electric, but will the saving on gas
       ever
                make up
                A  A for the high initial cost?A  I'm driving a car I bought 3
       years
                old off
                A  A a lease, and it has cost me a fraction of the cost of an
       EV,
                but I only
                A  A commute about 50 miles a week. An EV would never be cost
                effective for
                A  A me.
                A  A The batteries are claimed to last almost forever, but why
       do
                they last
                A  A so long in a car, but not in anything else?A  Is it the
       better
                A  A management?A  All the rechargeable lithium battery tools
       I have
                seem to
                A  A have have specific charging strategies, and say the
       batteries
                don't
                A  A like heat.A  Does this apply to EVs, and if you live in
       Phoenix
                the
                A  A batteries will have a short life?
                A  A A friends hybrid battery failed, and even a rebuilt
       battery was
                A  A expensive.A  With synthetic oil, my past and present cars
       seem
                to run
                A  A for every, just a rebuilt transmission at 100,000 miles,
       half
                the $s of
                A  A a rebuilt EV battery.
                A  A I don't know if this is a reliable souse, but maybe?
                A
                A
       [1][2]https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
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                ement-co
                A  A st.html
                A  A On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 06:45:35 AM PST, B
       Hower via
                DeTomaso
                A  A <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
                A  A FWIWA  __A  Electric Cars:
                A
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