[DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve

jderyke at aol.com jderyke at aol.com
Sun Nov 6 14:59:47 EST 2022


Ancient-tech says that the original 351-W block- of all years- can be retrofitted with altered Cleveland OEM or aftermarket aluminum heads. But swapping heads and blocks is not a bolt-on afternoon exercise for rookies!  Ford published an info sheet on this conversion back in the '70s-'80s. The problem areas I remember are the Pantera AC/alternator bracket (too short), the Pantera dipstick guide (too short) and the need for a 351-W intake or spacers, all because the original Windsor block is 0.300" taller and has different water routing in its block. The oil pan and its gasket must be Windsor. The rear main seal on a Windsor is one piece which is a benefit for some (351-Cs can be machined to accept it), and the separate aluminum Windsor front cover can be altered to take the more convenient to service Cleveland front-entry crank seal. 
Harmonic balancers & flywheels (with the 26.2 in-oz balance factor), distributors (with a Windsor-size gear) & clutches interchange. The mechanical fuel pump must be Windsor. Windsor blocks take 1/2" head bolts while Clevelands used 7/16". An hour with a drill fixes that. There may be a bit of work readjusting the gearshift rod support under the left head, and the left side header on a taller block may run into the fuel tank so the conversion might need specific headers (on at least the left side). Hall used to sell them. Clearance will be worse with SVO heads due to the raised exhaust ports.. A stock Cleveland GTS left header can be altered (#5 tube) to clear the tank. Air cleaner height will also be taller so expect more fiddling if you're marginal on screen clearance now.
Windsor blocks originally used lower rpm 3" main bearing size but Tim Meyer's blocks and I think some Darts are machined for Cleveland-sized 2.75" main bearings. I'm not up on what the various years of Dart aftermarket blocks specifically need, but with the availability of both brand new iron or aluminum 351-C thick-wall aftermarket blocks from Tim Meyer, all this fiddling may be redundant for many. TM blocks accept 4.125" pistons and with a 4" stroker crank, gives 427.6 cubes- possibly with some counterweight shaving near the oil pump. He has a very responsive web site.J DeRyke
-----Original Message-----
From: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>; 'Ken Green' <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; 'Dan' <dan at excaliburre.com>; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Sent: Sun, Nov 6, 2022 6:28 am
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve

Hi Chuck,

True.  The 9.2" deck height Dart block is similar enough to a 351C that you could do this swap and most people wouldn't notice.

351C headers fit perfectly.

The bellhousing is the same, so the ZF bolts up with no changes.

The Dart block is beefier.  The block bulges out a bit at the cylinders, plus there are some stiffening ribs.  I had to grind on the motor mounts to get them to fit.  Not a big deal - maybe 1/4" of aluminum removed in a non-critical area.

You need a 351W style oil pan, but if you're doing an Armando pan, it's not a big deal.  One plus is you can run a one-piece 351W oil pan gasket.

The China wall is 351W style, which juts out a bit, whereas a 351C juts inward.  One again, not a big deal.  You just screw a small piece of aluminum to the bottom of the intake, and it seals just fine.  I learned that trick from Tom Upton.

351W and 351C distributors are the same.  The only difference is the gear.  So, buy a 351W gear for your 351C distributor, and you're done.

The water neck/thermostat housing can be a small challenge.  I already had A3 heads with water coming out the front of the heads and a remote thermostat, so mine was easy.  If you want to retain the stock look, you have to figure this one out.

You can use off-the-shelf 302/5.0, 351W camshafts, but multiply lifts by (1.73/1.6) to get the true lift.  I ran a Ford Motorsports X303 for a while, but finally had one custom made for my combination (from Brent Lykins - very happy with this camshaft).

You have to use a 351W timing cover, fuel pump, and water pump.

The stock Pantera dipstick fits in a 351W timing cover.  It was nice to not have to figure that one out.

I have a bulkhead reduction kit, which relocates the a/c compressor and alternator down and to the passenger's side.  It fits the Dart block.

The Dart block accepts factory roller camshafts - with that sheet metal retainer.  So, you can use factory hydraulic roller lifters if you want.

Will.


On 11/6/22, 9:06 AM, "Charles Engles" <cengles at cox.net> wrote:

    Dear Will,

                  I seem to recall that the Ford SVO and perhaps the Dart Windsor blocks with the 9.2" deck height, permit  you to bolt on Cleveland heads and intake manifolds and headers.  Is that right?  

                    Does it use the same motor mounts and ZF bellhousing?

                                          Curious, Chuck Engles

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Will Kooiman [mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com] 
    Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2022 5:40 AM
    To: Ken Green; 'Dan'; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; Charles Engles
    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve

    How about the cost?

    If you have a .030 block with 1-2 damaged cylinders and if you are happy with your .030 pistons, just do 2 sleeves.

    If you go back to standard, you have to buy 8 pistons, plus you need to rebalance, and for what?

    What if you sonic test, and 2 more cylinders are thin?

    If I had a machinist I trusted, I would be okay with 8 sleeves.

    I didn't do that.  Instead, I went with a 9.2" deck Dart block.  Yes, I had to switch to a Windsor oil pan, oil pump, fuel pump, water pump, cam, and distributor gear (dist is the same, only the gear is different).  But the Dart block is so much better, it's amazing.

    On 11/6/22, 12:38 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Ken Green via DeTomaso" <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:

          These folks have sleeves from 1/16 to 1/8 thickness.  The 1/16 would
          require a minimum amount of material removal.  Does that make a
          difference?
          [1]https://www.lasleeve.com/tech/faqs

          Ken

          On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 06:17:17 PM PDT, Charles Engles
          <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
          Dear Dan,
                      Hmmm.  Yes, the experts can be wrong.
                      However, regarding the shop in business for forty years
          that says they can sleeve all eight and it will be fine, stop for a
          minute and ask yourself: "If that is true, then why do people fret
          trying to find a good solid Cleveland block?  Why do people go to the
          effort to get them sonic checked for wall thickness?  WHY do they do
          that, IF the simple answer is to take any old 351C and simply sleeve
          all eight cylinders????      Possibly, just possibly, because while it
          can be done,  the durability and longevity are dubious and poor??
                            Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Dan [mailto:[2]dan at excaliburre.com]
          Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2022 4:40 PM
          To: 'Charles Engles'
          Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
          Yeah, I was hoping someone had been down this path before.
          After so many screw-ups at supposedly top notch engine shops I don't
          know who to trust in that industry either.
          The shop which has the engine now has been in business 40 years and
          says they can sleeve all eight and it will be fine. But I'm not "sold".
          Probably on SBC or GM big block but Cleveland's have such thin walls.
          Dan
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Charles Engles <[3]cengles at cox.net>
          Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2022 12:15 PM
          To: 'Dan Courtney' <[4]dan at excaliburre.com>; 'MICHAEL DREW'
          <[5]mikeldrew at aol.com>
          Cc: [6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
          Dear Dan,
                            The answers to the question are: 1) seek out a
          reputable and reliable machinist and engine builder with actual
          Cleveland experience and follow his recommendations; or 2) seek out
          amateur, non-machinist, hear-say opinions and sort out the truth from
          the (dis?) information.
                                          Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
          -----Original Message-----
          From: DeTomaso [mailto:[7]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
          Behalf Of Dan Courtney
          Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2022 10:57 AM
          To: MICHAEL DREW
          Cc: [8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
          Then the question becomes:Is it better to have a .030 block with one or
          two non adjacent sleeves or a fully sleeved block at original bore?I've
          been told you get heat transfer between cylinders on a Cleveland at or
          over .030.And we all know there's already too much heat in a Pantera
          engine. DanSent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
          -------- Original message --------From: MICHAEL DREW
          <[9]mikeldrew at aol.com> Date: 11/4/22  8:14 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: Dan
          <[10]dan at excaliburre.com> Cc: [11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve Dan,Sleeving all
          eight cylinders is like putting eight plugs in a flat tire with one
          hole in it!If you have a block that needs one or two sleeves, you
          install one or two sleeves. MikeSent from my iPhone> On Nov 4, 2022, at
          18:13, Dan <[12]dan at excaliburre.com> wrote:> > i>>?  I'm having handful
          of 351C blocks sonic tested.> >  One is the Boss 351 that Dennis Quella
          built for "The Winged Warrior">  in the early `80's.> >  I'm wondering
          if it would be advisable to sleeve all 8 cylinders to>  bring it back
          to original bore.> >  Another option is to sleeve just one or two holes
          and go with .030.> > >  A 3^rd option is to sleeve two cylinders on an
          original bore 2 bolt>  block.> > >  Over the years I've received advice
          regarding sleeves from sleeving all>  8 holes makes for a stronger
          block to sleeving a Cleveland can>  interfere with the water jackets.>
          > >  Does anyone have an opinion on sleeving a 351C?> > >  Dan> > > >
          >  Dan Courtney> >  La Jolla, CA> > >  [1][13]Dan at excaliburre.com> >
          References> >  1. mailto:[14]Dan at excaliburre.com>
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        References

          1. https://www.lasleeve.com/tech/faqs
          2. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
          3. mailto:cengles at cox.net
          4. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
          5. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
          6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          7. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
          8. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          9. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
          10. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
          11. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          12. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
          13. mailto:Dan at excaliburre.com
          14. mailto:Dan at excaliburre.com
          15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
          17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
          18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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-------------- next part --------------
   Ancient-tech says that the original 351-W block- of all years- can be
   retrofitted with altered Cleveland OEM or aftermarket aluminum heads.
   But swapping heads and blocks is not a bolt-on afternoon exercise for
   rookies!  Ford published an info sheet on this conversion back in the
   '70s-'80s. The problem areas I remember are the Pantera AC/alternator
   bracket (too short), the Pantera dipstick guide (too short) and the
   need for a 351-W intake or spacers, all because the original Windsor
   block is 0.300" taller and has different water routing in its block.
   The oil pan and its gasket must be Windsor. The rear main seal on a
   Windsor is one piece which is a benefit for some (351-Cs can be
   machined to accept it), and the separate aluminum Windsor front cover
   can be altered to take the more convenient to service Cleveland
   front-entry crank seal.
   Harmonic balancers & flywheels (with the 26.2 in-oz balance factor),
   distributors (with a Windsor-size gear) & clutches interchange. The
   mechanical fuel pump must be Windsor. Windsor blocks take 1/2" head
   bolts while Clevelands used 7/16". An hour with a drill fixes that.
   There may be a bit of work readjusting the gearshift rod support under
   the left head, and the left side header on a taller block may run into
   the fuel tank so the conversion might need specific headers (on at
   least the left side). Hall used to sell them. Clearance will be worse
   with SVO heads due to the raised exhaust ports.. A stock Cleveland GTS
   left header can be altered (#5 tube) to clear the tank. Air cleaner
   height will also be taller so expect more fiddling if you're marginal
   on screen clearance now.
   Windsor blocks originally used lower rpm 3" main bearing size but Tim
   Meyer's blocks and I think some Darts are machined for Cleveland-sized
   2.75" main bearings. I'm not up on what the various years of Dart
   aftermarket blocks specifically need, but with the availability of both
   brand new iron or aluminum 351-C thick-wall aftermarket blocks from Tim
   Meyer, all this fiddling may be redundant for many. TM blocks accept
   4.125" pistons and with a 4" stroker crank, gives 427.6 cubes- possibly
   with some counterweight shaving near the oil pump. He has a very
   responsive web site.
   J DeRyke
   -----Original Message-----
   From: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
   To: Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net>; 'Ken Green'
   <kenn_green at yahoo.com>; 'Dan' <dan at excaliburre.com>;
   detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Sent: Sun, Nov 6, 2022 6:28 am
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
   Hi Chuck,
   True.  The 9.2" deck height Dart block is similar enough to a 351C that
   you could do this swap and most people wouldn't notice.
   351C headers fit perfectly.
   The bellhousing is the same, so the ZF bolts up with no changes.
   The Dart block is beefier.  The block bulges out a bit at the
   cylinders, plus there are some stiffening ribs.  I had to grind on the
   motor mounts to get them to fit.  Not a big deal - maybe 1/4" of
   aluminum removed in a non-critical area.
   You need a 351W style oil pan, but if you're doing an Armando pan, it's
   not a big deal.  One plus is you can run a one-piece 351W oil pan
   gasket.
   The China wall is 351W style, which juts out a bit, whereas a 351C juts
   inward.  One again, not a big deal.  You just screw a small piece of
   aluminum to the bottom of the intake, and it seals just fine.  I
   learned that trick from Tom Upton.
   351W and 351C distributors are the same.  The only difference is the
   gear.  So, buy a 351W gear for your 351C distributor, and you're done.
   The water neck/thermostat housing can be a small challenge.  I already
   had A3 heads with water coming out the front of the heads and a remote
   thermostat, so mine was easy.  If you want to retain the stock look,
   you have to figure this one out.
   You can use off-the-shelf 302/5.0, 351W camshafts, but multiply lifts
   by (1.73/1.6) to get the true lift.  I ran a Ford Motorsports X303 for
   a while, but finally had one custom made for my combination (from Brent
   Lykins - very happy with this camshaft).
   You have to use a 351W timing cover, fuel pump, and water pump.
   The stock Pantera dipstick fits in a 351W timing cover.  It was nice to
   not have to figure that one out.
   I have a bulkhead reduction kit, which relocates the a/c compressor and
   alternator down and to the passenger's side.  It fits the Dart block.
   The Dart block accepts factory roller camshafts - with that sheet metal
   retainer.  So, you can use factory hydraulic roller lifters if you
   want.
   Will.
   i>>?On 11/6/22, 9:06 AM, "Charles Engles" <[1]cengles at cox.net> wrote:
       Dear Will,
                     I seem to recall that the Ford SVO and perhaps the
   Dart Windsor blocks with the 9.2" deck height, permit  you to bolt on
   Cleveland heads and intake manifolds and headers.  Is that right?
                       Does it use the same motor mounts and ZF
   bellhousing?
                                             Curious, Chuck Engles
       -----Original Message-----
       From: Will Kooiman [mailto:[2]will.kooiman at gmail.com]
       Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2022 5:40 AM
       To: Ken Green; 'Dan'; [3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com; Charles
   Engles
       Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
       How about the cost?
       If you have a .030 block with 1-2 damaged cylinders and if you are
   happy with your .030 pistons, just do 2 sleeves.
       If you go back to standard, you have to buy 8 pistons, plus you
   need to rebalance, and for what?
       What if you sonic test, and 2 more cylinders are thin?
       If I had a machinist I trusted, I would be okay with 8 sleeves.
       I didn't do that.  Instead, I went with a 9.2" deck Dart block.
   Yes, I had to switch to a Windsor oil pan, oil pump, fuel pump, water
   pump, cam, and distributor gear (dist is the same, only the gear is
   different).  But the Dart block is so much better, it's amazing.
       i>>?On 11/6/22, 12:38 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Ken Green via
   DeTomaso" <[4]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
   [5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
             These folks have sleeves from 1/16 to 1/8 thickness.  The
   1/16 would
             require a minimum amount of material removal.  Does that make
   a
             difference?
             [1][6]https://www.lasleeve.com/tech/faqs
             Ken
             On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 06:17:17 PM PDT, Charles
   Engles
             <[7]cengles at cox.net> wrote:
             Dear Dan,
                         Hmmm.  Yes, the experts can be wrong.
                         However, regarding the shop in business for forty
   years
             that says they can sleeve all eight and it will be fine, stop
   for a
             minute and ask yourself: "If that is true, then why do people
   fret
             trying to find a good solid Cleveland block?  Why do people
   go to the
             effort to get them sonic checked for wall thickness?  WHY do
   they do
             that, IF the simple answer is to take any old 351C and simply
   sleeve
             all eight cylinders????      Possibly, just possibly, because
   while it
             can be done,  the durability and longevity are dubious and
   poor??
                               Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
             -----Original Message-----
             From: Dan [mailto:[2][8]dan at excaliburre.com]
             Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2022 4:40 PM
             To: 'Charles Engles'
             Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
             Yeah, I was hoping someone had been down this path before.
             After so many screw-ups at supposedly top notch engine shops
   I don't
             know who to trust in that industry either.
             The shop which has the engine now has been in business 40
   years and
             says they can sleeve all eight and it will be fine. But I'm
   not "sold".
             Probably on SBC or GM big block but Cleveland's have such
   thin walls.
             Dan
             -----Original Message-----
             From: Charles Engles <[3][9]cengles at cox.net>
             Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2022 12:15 PM
             To: 'Dan Courtney' <[4][10]dan at excaliburre.com>; 'MICHAEL
   DREW'
             <[5][11]mikeldrew at aol.com>
             Cc: [6][12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
             Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
             Dear Dan,
                               The answers to the question are: 1) seek
   out a
             reputable and reliable machinist and engine builder with
   actual
             Cleveland experience and follow his recommendations; or 2)
   seek out
             amateur, non-machinist, hear-say opinions and sort out the
   truth from
             the (dis?) information.
                                             Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
             -----Original Message-----
             From: DeTomaso
   [mailto:[7][13]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
             Behalf Of Dan Courtney
             Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2022 10:57 AM
             To: MICHAEL DREW
             Cc: [8][14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
             Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
             Then the question becomes:Is it better to have a .030 block
   with one or
             two non adjacent sleeves or a fully sleeved block at original
   bore?I've
             been told you get heat transfer between cylinders on a
   Cleveland at or
             over .030.And we all know there's already too much heat in a
   Pantera
             engine. DanSent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
             -------- Original message --------From: MICHAEL DREW
             <[9][15]mikeldrew at aol.com> Date: 11/4/22  8:14 PM
   (GMT-08:00) To: Dan
             <[10][16]dan at excaliburre.com> Cc:
   [11][17]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
             Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] To sleeve or not to sleeve
   Dan,Sleeving all
             eight cylinders is like putting eight plugs in a flat tire
   with one
             hole in it!If you have a block that needs one or two sleeves,
   you
             install one or two sleeves. MikeSent from my iPhone> On Nov
   4, 2022, at
             18:13, Dan <[12][18]dan at excaliburre.com> wrote:> > i>>?  I'm
   having handful
             of 351C blocks sonic tested.> >  One is the Boss 351 that
   Dennis Quella
             built for "The Winged Warrior">  in the early `80's.> >  I'm
   wondering
             if it would be advisable to sleeve all 8 cylinders to>  bring
   it back
             to original bore.> >  Another option is to sleeve just one or
   two holes
             and go with .030.> > >  A 3^rd option is to sleeve two
   cylinders on an
             original bore 2 bolt>  block.> > >  Over the years I've
   received advice
             regarding sleeves from sleeving all>  8 holes makes for a
   stronger
             block to sleeving a Cleveland can>  interfere with the water
   jackets.>
             > >  Does anyone have an opinion on sleeving a 351C?> > >
   Dan> > > >
             >  Dan Courtney> >  La Jolla, CA> > >
   [1][13][19]Dan at excaliburre.com> >
             References> >  1. mailto:[14][20]Dan at excaliburre.com>
             _______________________________________________> > > Detomaso
   Email
             List is not managed by POCA> Posted emails must not exceed
   1.5
             Megabytes> DeTomaso mailing list>
   [15][21]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com>

   [16][22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso> > To
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             the links above.> > Members who post to this list grant
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   [18][24]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
             To manage your subscription (change email address,
   unsubscribe, etc.)
             use the links above.
             Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
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   of the
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           References
             1. [25]https://www.lasleeve.com/tech/faqs
             2. mailto:[26]dan at excaliburre.com
             3. mailto:[27]cengles at cox.net
             4. mailto:[28]dan at excaliburre.com
             5. mailto:[29]mikeldrew at aol.com
             6. mailto:[30]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
             7. mailto:[31]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
             8. mailto:[32]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
             9. mailto:[33]mikeldrew at aol.com
             10. mailto:[34]dan at excaliburre.com
             11. mailto:[35]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
             12. mailto:[36]dan at excaliburre.com
             13. mailto:[37]Dan at excaliburre.com
             14. mailto:[38]Dan at excaliburre.com
             15. mailto:[39]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
             16.
   [40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
             17. mailto:[41]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
             18.
   [42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
           _______________________________________________
           Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
           Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
           DeTomaso mailing list
           [43]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
           [44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
           To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.) use the links above.
           Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
   forward any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
   of the list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
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   _______________________________________________
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   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [45]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   [46]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.
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References

   1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   2. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
   3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   4. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
   5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   6. https://www.lasleeve.com/tech/faqs
   7. mailto:cengles at cox.net
   8. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
   9. mailto:cengles at cox.net
  10. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
  11. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
  12. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  13. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  14. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  15. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
  16. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
  17. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  18. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
  19. mailto:Dan at excaliburre.com
  20. mailto:Dan at excaliburre.com
  21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  23. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  25. https://www.lasleeve.com/tech/faqs
  26. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
  27. mailto:cengles at cox.net
  28. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
  29. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
  30. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  31. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  32. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  33. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
  34. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
  35. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  36. mailto:dan at excaliburre.com
  37. mailto:Dan at excaliburre.com
  38. mailto:Dan at excaliburre.com
  39. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  41. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  43. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  45. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  46. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso


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