[DeTomaso] Playboy Pantera for Auction on BaT
Daniel C Jones
daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
Tue Jun 21 12:51:33 EDT 2022
> The pictures I reviewed showed a tired red Pantera with a clearly
amateurish installation in the engine bay
I spotted several potential issues with the engine build. Below is what I
posted on BaT:
Note the engine is no longer a Cleveland. Rather, it's more of a reverse
Clevor. Clevor is slang for a Windsor block with Cleveland style canted
valve heads. This engine is the reverse with Windsor inline valve heads on
a Cleveland block. Requires some custom parts like headers and pistons
with valve notches that match the inline valves, along with gaskets and
fasteners that work with the odd intake/head/block combination. Notice the
hack job on the Windsor intake end seal to clear the oil pressure sender
fitting. Also, @BaT the engine did not make 498 HP and 495 ft-lbs and turn
over 10000 RPM on a dynamometer. Instead, someone plugged some numbers
into a simulation program (Dyno2000) which output an estimate of 498 HP and
495 ft-lbs. Remember the first rule of simulation software is GIGO. The
fact that it wasn't spun to 10K+ RPM on the dyno is a good thing as the
unnecessary high volume oil pump would have sucked that stock 5 quart pan
dry, spun a rod bearing and chucked one or more of those questionable CAT
(not to be confused with the reputable SCAT company) rods out the side of
the block. There's also a potential issue with the top ring placement.
Cleveland blocks have notches for valve clearance/unshrouding which limits
where the top ring ring can be placed. Too high will put rings into the
notches which is no bueno. This also limits where the piston pin can be
placed to get a reasonable ring pack. The typical 4" stroke Cleveland will
have a pin height of around 1.2" and use 6" rods. The paperwork suggests
the crank is a 3.875" stroke SCAT unit. That would be a custom crank
stroke so I suspect it's actually the off-the-shelf 3.85" 9000 series cast
crank which would match the stated 395 cubic inch displacement (3.875"
stroke would be over 397 cubic inches). Stroker math is simple and
suggests that a 6.2" long rod and 3.85" stroke will have a pin height of
1.075 inches which is not recommended if you want the engine to last.
Also, I see no mention of sonic testing in the engine rebuild paperwork.
Having had more than one Cleveland block fail sonic test at 0.030" over and
another that needed a sleeve at standard bore, sonic testing is highly
recommended before boring 0.040" over.
Dan Jones
On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 10:04 AM Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
> Dear Mike,
>
> I think the recipient has aged a bit better than the Pantera.
> IIRC, I saw pictures of it and a story that while it was no longer pink, it
> was the Playboy Pink Pantera. More astounding is that it was in Oklahoma
> and for sale several years ago. I cannot recall the price.
>
> The pictures I reviewed showed a tired red Pantera with a
> clearly amateurish installation in the engine bay: nitrous lines, wires,
> hoses, remote filters, etc. It looked like one should back away slowly and
> carefully, while shielding their eyes.
>
> In the BaT pictures, I can still see residua of its previous
> condition around the edges of some of the photos. I am interested in the
> BaT bidding and comments on this Pantera with a salacious back story.
>
> Warmest regards, Chuck Engles
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso [mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On Behalf
> Of Mike & Elizabeth
> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 9:52 AM
> To: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Playboy Pantera for Auction on BaT
>
> The pink Pantera awarded to the 1972 Playmate of the Year is for sale in
> BaT. Now repainted in red over black and Grp IV flared. I'm sure it's
> aged
> better then it's recipient.
>
>
>
> https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-detomaso-pantera-82/
>
>
>
> Mike Thomas
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
>
-------------- next part --------------
> The pictures I reviewed showed a tired red Pantera with a clearly
amateurish installation in the engine bay
I spotted several potential issues with the engine build.A Below is
what I posted on BaT:
Note the engine is no longer a Cleveland.A Rather, it's more of a
reverse Clevor. Clevor is slang for a Windsor block with Cleveland
style canted valve heads.A This engine is the reverse with Windsor
inline valve heads on a Cleveland block.A Requires some custom parts
like headers and pistons with valve notches that match the inline
valves, along with gaskets and fasteners that work with the odd
intake/head/block combination.A Notice the hack job on the Windsor
intake end seal to clear the oil pressure sender fitting.A Also, @BaT
the engine did not make 498 HP and 495 ft-lbs and turn over 10000 RPM
on a dynamometer.A Instead, someone plugged some numbers into a
simulation program (Dyno2000) which output an estimate of 498 HP and
495 ft-lbs.A Remember the first rule of simulation software is GIGO.A
The fact that it wasn't spun to 10K+ RPM on the dyno is a good thing as
the unnecessary high volume oil pump would have sucked that stock 5
quart pan dry, spun a rod bearing and chucked one or more of those
questionable CAT (not to be confused with the reputable SCAT company)
rods out the side of the block.A There's also a potential issue with
the top ring placement.A Cleveland blocks have notches for valve
clearance/unshrouding which limits where the top ring ring can be
placed.A Too high will put rings into the notches which is no bueno.A
This also limits where the piston pin can be placed to get a reasonable
ring pack.A The typical 4" stroke Cleveland will have a pin height of
around 1.2" and use 6" rods.A The paperwork suggests the crank is a
3.875" stroke SCAT unit.A That would be a custom crank stroke so I
suspect it's actually the off-the-shelf 3.85" 9000 series cast crank
which would match the stated 395 cubic inch displacement (3.875" stroke
would be over 397 cubic inches).A Stroker math is simple and suggests
that a 6.2" long rod and 3.85" stroke will have a pin height of 1.075
inches which is not recommended if you want the engine to last.A Also,
I see no mention of sonic testing in the engine rebuild paperwork.A
Having had more than one Cleveland block fail sonic test at 0.030" over
and another that needed a sleeve at standard bore, sonic testing is
highly recommended before boring 0.040" over.
Dan Jones
On Tue, Jun 21, 2022 at 10:04 AM Charles Engles <[1]cengles at cox.net>
wrote:
Dear Mike,
A A A A A A A I think the recipient has aged a bit better
than the Pantera.
IIRC, I saw pictures of it and a story that while it was no longer
pink, it
was the Playboy Pink Pantera.A More astounding is that it was in
Oklahoma
and for sale several years ago.A I cannot recall the price.
A A A A A A A The pictures I reviewed showed a tired red
Pantera with a
clearly amateurish installation in the engine bay: nitrous lines,
wires,
hoses, remote filters, etc.A It looked like one should back away
slowly and
carefully, while shielding their eyes.A
A A A A A A A A In the BaT pictures, I can still see residua
of its previous
condition around the edges of some of the photos.A I am interested
in the
BaT bidding and comments on this Pantera with a salacious back
story.
A A A A A A A A A A A A A A Warmest regards, Chuck
Engles
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso [mailto:[2]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com]
On Behalf
Of Mike & Elizabeth
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2022 9:52 AM
To: [3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] Playboy Pantera for Auction on BaT
The pink Pantera awarded to the 1972 Playmate of the Year is for
sale in
BaT.A Now repainted in red over black and Grp IV flared.A I'm sure
it's aged
better then it's recipient.
[4]https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-detomaso-pantera-82/
Mike Thomas
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References
1. mailto:cengles at cox.net
2. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
4. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-detomaso-pantera-82/
5. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
6. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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