[DeTomaso] intake maifold for throttle body injection
Daniel C Jones
daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com
Thu Oct 14 19:48:56 EDT 2021
> I just got an email from builder stating the Ford AL dual plane intake is
not suited for throttle body
Gerry Romack has the Holley throttle body EFI on an Edelbrock Performer
dual plane in one of his Panteras. It wouldn't have been my first choice
for that engine but he wanted to run a bulky Chrysler 340 air cleaner under
a stock engine screen and needed a really low intake manifold.
Be aware that Holley has a couple of different throttle body injection
options. One is shaped like a 4150/4160 Holley carb which allows the use
of a drop base air cleaner designed for those carburetors. If you recall
the 408C we did for Hugh Casey:
http://www.the351cforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=569
That engine had a Torker style intake made for Ford Motorsport A3 heads.
After Hugh passed away, the Pantera was sold and I was contacted by someone
working on the car for its new owner. That engine had a 740 CFM custom
Holley carb yet made over 600 HP and he mentioned that it was the most
responsive carb he'd ever driven. The engine was converted to Holley
throttle body EFI and he said it was even more responsive. He also
mentioned that the Sniper throttle body wouldn't work with the drop base
air cleaner but the 4150/4160 style throttle body did and all fit under the
stock engine screen. Also, a friend runs the Sniper set up on a Performer
dual plane in a 302 powered 1968 Mustang without issue.
> Is this true?
There have been some reports of builders having issues on dual plane
intakes that were solved by going to an open spacer, milled divider or
single plane intake. However, others have run them without issue. I think
the Engine Masters TV show has had one episode where they ran into an issue
running a dual plane and another issue where Steve Brule mentions better
results on a particular throttle body EFI engine. In that case, they
theorized the dual plane had longer runners with less cylinder-to-cylinder
variation that better suited to that particular engine. Be aware the Ford
aluminum dual plane has 4 good runners and 4 bad runners that flow
considerably less (~25 CFM worse than the other runners). The Blue Thunder
is the same way but the pattern of good runners is different.
> Any experience with single plane that would fit under stock engine screen
Below are some A/B measurements I've made on various 351C intake
manifolds. The A/B measurements represent the drop from a straight edge
laid across the carb pad to the closest point where the end rail bends
inward (each end). The Offenhauser 360 is the lowest of the single planes
and is lower than a stock Ford dual plane with EGR spacer. That said, the
Offenhauser 360 was the worst performing single plane intake I've tested.
It's just a big plenum with no runner length to speak of. The Offenhauser
Port-o-Sonic is probably the lowest of the other single planes and should
fit under a stock engine screen. Also be aware that there are multiple
versions of both the Weiand Xcelerator and Holley Street Dominator intakes
with different heights. One casting may just clear a stock screen where
another might not. Of course, you could mill the carb pad as needed.
Should you need one, I think I have an Offenhauser Port-o-Sonic 4V here
that I would sell or lend out for a test.
Intake Manifold A Height B Height
(inches) (inches)
Edelbrock Performer LB 2V 3 1/2 4 3/8
Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap 2V 4 1/2 5 5/8
Holley Street Dominator 2V 4 3/8 5 3/8
Offenhauser Dual Port 2V 3 1/2 4 1/2 Qjet/ThermoQuad Spread
Bore
Offenhauser Port-O-Sonic 2V 3 7/8 4 7/8
Parker Funnel Web 2V 6 7/8 6 7/8
Parker Funnel Web 2V 6 1/2 6 1/2
Weiand Xcelerator 2V 4 3/16 5 1/8
Weiand Xcelerator 2V 4 1/8 5 1/8
Weiand Xcelerator 2V 4 1/8 5 1/16
Scott Cook (CHI 3V, 4V, A3) 3 3/4 5
Ford 4V aluminum dual plane 3 1/4 4 3/8 Holley pattern Boss
intake
Bud Moore Maxi-Plenum 6 5/8 6 5/8
Blue Thunder 4V 4 3/8 5 3/8 Canted pad version
Coffield IR 9 1/2 9 1/2
Offenhauser Port-O-Sonic 4V 3 7/8 4 7/8
Edelbrock Torker 4V 4 1/2 5 1/2
Holley Strip Dominator 4V 4 1/4 5 1/4
Offenhauser 360 4V 3 1/2 4 1/2
Parker Funnelweb 4V 6 3/4 6 3/4
Weiand Tunnel Ram 9 9 3/8
Edelbrock A331 (Edelbrock) 4 5/16 5 5/16
Edelbrock A331 (Roush) 6 3/4 6 3/4
Ford Motorsport A351 (Roush) 6 3/4 6 3/4
Ford Motorsport B351 (Roush) 6 3/8 6 3/8
Ford Motorsport C351 (Edelbrock) 7 7
Dan Jones
On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 10:10 AM JFByrd via DeTomaso <
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> I just got an email from builder stating the Ford AL dual plane intake is
> not suited for throttle body
> Is this true?
> If so, wouldn't that rule out Blue Thunder (if I could find one)?
> Any experience with single plane that would fit under stock engine screen
>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
> I just got an email from builder stating the Ford AL dual plane
intake is not suited for throttle body
Gerry Romack has the Holley throttle body EFI on an Edelbrock Performer
dual plane in one of his Panteras.A It wouldn't have been my first
choice for that engine but he wanted to run a bulky Chrysler 340 air
cleaner under a stock engine screen and needed a really low intake
manifold.
Be aware that Holley has a couple of different throttle body injection
options.A One is shaped like a 4150/4160 Holley carb which allows the
use of a drop base air cleaner designed for those carburetors.A If you
recall the 408C we did for Hugh Casey:
A [1]http://www.the351cforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=569
That engine had a Torker style intake made for Ford Motorsport A3
heads.A After Hugh passed away, the Pantera was sold and I was
contacted by someone working on the car for its new owner.A That
engine had a 740 CFM custom Holley carb yet made over 600 HP and he
mentioned that it was the most responsive carb he'd ever driven.A The
engine was converted to Holley throttle body EFI and he said it was
even more responsive.A He also mentioned that the Sniper throttle body
wouldn't work with the drop base air cleaner but the 4150/4160 style
throttle body did and all fit under the stock engine screen.A Also, a
friend runs the Sniper set up on a Performer dual plane in a 302
powered 1968 Mustang without issue.
> Is this true?
There have been some reports of builders having issues on dual plane
intakes that were solved by going to an open spacer, milled divider or
single plane intake.A However, others have run them without issue.A I
think the Engine Masters TV show has had one episode where they ran
into an issue running a dual plane and another issue where Steve Brule
mentions better results on a particular throttle body EFI engine.A In
that case, they theorized the dual plane had longer runners with less
cylinder-to-cylinder variation that better suited to that particular
engine.A Be aware the Ford aluminum dual plane has 4 good runners and
4 bad runners that flow considerably less (~25 CFM worse than the other
runners).A The Blue Thunder is the same way but the pattern of good
runners is different.
> Any experience with single plane that would fit under stock engine
screen
Below are some A/B measurements I've made on various 351C intake
manifolds.A The A/B measurements represent the drop from a straight
edge laid across the carb pad to the closest point where the end rail
bends inward (each end).A The Offenhauser 360 is the lowest of the
single planes and is lower than a stock Ford dual plane with EGR
spacer.A That said, the Offenhauser 360 was the worst performing
single plane intake I've tested.A It's just a big plenum with no
runner length to speak of.A The Offenhauser Port-o-Sonic is probably
the lowest of the other single planes and should fit under a stock
engine screen.A Also be aware that there are multiple versions of both
the Weiand Xcelerator and Holley Street Dominator intakes with
different heights.A One casting may just clear a stock screen where
another might not.A Of course, you could mill the carb pad as needed.
Should you need one, I think I have an Offenhauser Port-o-Sonic 4V here
that I would sell or lend out for a test.
Intake Manifold A A A A A A A A A A Height B Height
A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A (inches) (inches)
Edelbrock Performer LB 2V A A A A 3 1/2 A 4 3/8
Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap 2V A 4 1/2 A A 5 5/8
Holley Street Dominator 2V A A A A 4 3/8 A 5 3/8
Offenhauser Dual Port 2V A A A A A 3 1/2 A 4 1/2 A
A Qjet/ThermoQuad Spread Bore
Offenhauser Port-O-Sonic 2V A A A 3 7/8 A 4 7/8
Parker Funnel Web 2V A A A A A A A 6 7/8 A 6 7/8
Parker Funnel Web 2V A A A A A A A 6 1/2 A 6 1/2
Weiand Xcelerator 2V A A A A A A A 4 3/16 A 5 1/8
Weiand Xcelerator 2V A A A A A A A 4 1/8 A 5 1/8
Weiand Xcelerator 2V A A A A A A A 4 1/8 A 5 1/16
Scott Cook (CHI 3V, 4V, A3) A A A 3 3/4 A 5
Ford 4V aluminum dual plane A A A 3 1/4 A 4 3/8 A A Holley pattern
Boss intake
Bud Moore Maxi-Plenum A A A A A A 6 5/8 A 6 5/8
Blue Thunder 4V A A A A A A A A A 4 3/8 A 5 3/8 A A Canted
pad version
Coffield IR A A A A A A A A A A A 9 1/2 A 9 1/2
Offenhauser Port-O-Sonic 4V A A A 3 7/8 A 4 7/8
Edelbrock Torker 4V A A A A A A A 4 1/2 A 5 1/2
Holley Strip Dominator 4V A A A A 4 1/4 A 5 1/4
Offenhauser 360 4V A A A A A A A A 3 1/2 A 4 1/2
Parker Funnelweb 4V A A A A A A A 6 3/4 A 6 3/4
Weiand Tunnel Ram A A A A A A A A 9 A A A 9 3/8
Edelbrock A331 (Edelbrock) A A A A 4 5/16 A 5 5/16
Edelbrock A331 (Roush) A A A A A A 6 3/4 A 6 3/4
Ford Motorsport A351 (Roush) A A A 6 3/4 A 6 3/4
Ford Motorsport B351 (Roush) A A A 6 3/8 A 6 3/8
Ford Motorsport C351 (Edelbrock) A 7 A A A 7
Dan Jones
On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 10:10 AM JFByrd via DeTomaso
<[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
I just got an email from builder stating the Ford AL dual plane
intake is not suited for throttle body
Is this true?
If so, wouldn't that rule out Blue Thunder (if I could find one)?
Any experience with single plane that would fit under stock engine
screen
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References
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