[DeTomaso] Pantera Won't Start but has fuel, spark, good timing etc. Baffled and need Advice
FAITH MCCALL
rfmccall at comcast.net
Sun May 17 09:16:34 EDT 2020
Mike,
Please remove and replace the MSD #8207 coil . I had one on my Pantera for nearly 15 years and it did an excellent job. I have installed them on numerous Panteras but recently ( over the past two years) I have had four of them crap out within the first 6 months of use.
Most of them just die but on one of the cars, the car died and restarted several times until , on about the 4th time, it died and would not start.
I have spoken with MSD about it and they don't seem to care and have offered no solution. For anyone running this coil, put your hand on it after a 30 minute drive and feel how hot it gets. It doesn't seem to matter where it is mounted. It runs extremely hot. Please take it off and throw it away . Or at least carry a spare with you .
Ron McCall
> On May 17, 2020 at 12:59 AM Mike Reilly < reillyms at live.com mailto:reillyms at live.com > wrote:
>
>
> Yeah Charles, I also suspect my Duraspark ignition box may have failed in some odd fashion. I still get spark at the plug so I assume it’s still working? I have read that it can provide spark but provide it at the wrong time in a failure mode sometimes. Did you get spark at the plug and still have your MSD box failing? That will definitely one of the things I look at further.
>
> Thanks! Mike R.
>
>
> From: charlesmccall at gmail.com mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com <mailto: charlesmccall at gmail.com mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com >
> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020 9:42 PM
> To: 'Mike Reilly'<mailto: reillyms at live.com mailto:reillyms at live.com >; 'Asa Jay Laughton'<mailto: asajay at asajay.com mailto:asajay at asajay.com >; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <mailto: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com >
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Pantera Won't Start but has fuel, spark, good timing etc. Baffled and need Advice
>
> Just in case it isn't your ignition switch (this diagnosis was made based on
> the understanding that the engine runs just fine with the key in the "start"
> position but not "run". I did not understand that this is the case, others
> did, so perhaps you could clarify?) I have had several MSD electronic
> ignition boxes fail weirdly. I have had everything from a completely dead
> engine, as you describe, to one that ran rough and wouldn't rev about 3000
> rpm. I now carry a spare unit, and if my engine starts to misbehave I swap
> out the MSD unit and see if the problem has disappeared. More than once, it
> has. You have a different brand, but they could fail the same - can you
> borrow one to try?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso < detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com > On Behalf Of Mike
> Reilly
> Sent: 17. maj 2020 09:57
> To: Asa Jay Laughton < asajay at asajay.com mailto:asajay at asajay.com >; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Won't Start but has fuel, spark, good timing
> etc. Baffled and need Advice
>
> Thanks for the thoughts everyone. Now that I have verified that the
> distributor pin is there and in good shape I reinstalled the distributor.
> Checked timing and still would not start. Here is a video of me trying to
> start it before my first post. I tried no throttle, two pumps on the
> throttle and then holding the throttle to the floor.
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvimeo.com%2Fuser54794798%2Freview%2F419467000%2F7ef023747b&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512908439&sdata=i0HHzdm82CZ4SrpjRO%2FtkIJKtiWYer%2BUgQLF6GEkvt0%3D&reserved=0
>
> Next I will check out the ignition switch. I do have a spare if I need it
> which I bought probably 20 years ago at the San Diego swap meet when I lived
> there.
>
> One thing I had thought I listed in my initial email but seemed to have
> forgotten to add was that a month or so ago I was driving down a 40 MPH side
> street and the car just died. I had to coast to a safe parking lot. When I
> stopped it did restart and drove with no problem. Maybe this points to the
> ignition switch as well. Sorry I left that out : ( We also had an internet
> outage for the past three days so I was composing mail on a small mobile
> device with spotty connections. Internet is back up but now I need to get
> the Pantera back in commission. Thanks, Mike R.
>
> From: Asa Jay Laughton via DeTomaso<mailto: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com >
> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020 9:02 PM
> To:
> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <mailto: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com >
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Won't Start but has fuel, spark, good timing
> etc. Baffled and need Advice
>
> Sounds more like it could be the column switch.
>
> My initial thought was the timing gear, nylon, old, breaks off, lets the
> chain jump a few teeth. Ask me how I know.
>
> Soooo... when that happened to -me-, the engine cranked over very
> -smoothly- with no backfires in the carb and none out the exhaust, it just
> wouldn't start. It wouldn't even catch. But boy it turned over real
> smooth, like a Singer sewing machine.
>
> Since this one sounds like it catches but doesn't stay running, I'd lean
> toward the ignition switch.
>
> By the way, I was able to see my cam gear had broken nylon by looking
> through the distributor hole. Not easy to do, but that's what showed me the
> nylon was gone.
>
> Asa Jay
>
> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired Spokane County ARES-RACES-ACS
> EC/RO
> ******************************
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fw7tsc.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512908439&sdata=BgZ%2FmHMKr6GeqdUDCRYkerXjoGis5MqDNfK80JId9zQ%3D&reserved=0
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>
> On 5/16/2020 19:05, B Hower via DeTomaso wrote:
>
> > > How far off does the timing have to be before you no longer get any
> > backfire while cranking ? I may be confused again, but it seems he has
> > spark while cranking, thus cam is turning so should have air, gas
> > squirts at carburetor. So if gas at cylinder and spark at cylinder,
> > shouldn't you get some type of back fire?
> > Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
> > ! )
> >
> > >
> > > On Saturday, May 16, 2020, 8:51:28 PM CDT, Dave Londry
> > < davel at trguys.com mailto:davel at trguys.com > wrote:
> > Yes, if not spark or fuel or air, then timing.
> > And per Sean, pin in distributor gear, timing gear or timing chain
> > gone
> > past by a few links.
> > Dave
> > On 2020-05-16 4:43 p.m., Sean Korb wrote:
> > Oh! Without taking the pump and cover off you can check the chain
> > slack
> > from the fuel pump hole.A Reach in before the eccentric and see if
> > itas loose.A Itas going to have some play but it will feel really
> > slack if the teeth have started to decay.
> > On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 7:39 PM Sean Korb
> >
> > > [1]<[1][1] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com >
>
> > > wrote:
> > A timing light will show how close your timing is.A I worry the pin
> > is
> > sheared but binding on the shaft.A It should still be checkable by
> > sight which sounds like what you have done.A The other thing to
> > check,
> > since you have a stock timing set, is the nylon gear on the cam.A
> > These can crack and fall into your oil pan. A compression check can
> > help verify it but if itas that far off youall hear it draw as well
> > as
> > compress without even having to put a gauge on it.
> > Iam hoping itas just the ballast resistor but if you have stock 50
> > year
> > old nylon gears, put replacing them on the list.
> > Sean
> > On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 2:06 PM Mike Reilly
> > [2]<[2][2] reillyms at live.com mailto:reillyms at live.com >
> > wrote:
> > A A Hi all. I'm having a starting issue with my Pantera that has
> > me
> > A A baffled.A I've had the car since 1992 and it's never left me
> > stranded.
> > A A It's been running strong and starting immediately including
> > right
> > A A before this situation.A Last weekend I started a drive with
> >
> > > a
>
> > > planned
> > A A stop at a pet supply store near my house on my way out.A So,
> > the car
> > A A started just fine at home, warmed up a bit and then drove
> > perfectly the
> > A A 1/2 mile to the pet supply store.A I turned the car off,
> > bought dog
> > A A food and then got back in to continue my drive.A Well, the
> > car
> > would
> > A A not start.A It turned over fine, the battery was strong, the
> > starter
> > A A was cranking but it would not start seemly like it couldn't
> > get
> > a
> > A A spark.A I pulled the air cleaner and could see that it was
> > getting fuel
> > A A as the fuel would squirt in the carb when I gave it
> >
> > > throttle.A
>
> > > I
> > A A thought I may have flooded it so I let it sit 15-20 mins and
> > tried
> > A A again.A Same issue.A I pulled the driver side rear most
> >
> > > plug
>
> > > wire and
> > A A hooked up my spark tester.A It showed spark just fine.A I
> > let
> > it sit
> > A A for an hour.A Same issue.A It cranked fine, would sound
> >
> > > like
>
> > > it wanted
> > A A to fire but would not.A Even when I floored the gas pedal
> > while
> > A A cranking it (like for a flooded engine) it would rev up very
> > high like
> > A A it was running but would not catch to keep running.A I then
> > pulled all
> > A A the plugs and cleaned them with parts cleaner I had with me.A
> > They
> > A A looked dry but black indicating they were carbon fouled which
> > was
> > A A probably from me trying to start it over and over creating a
> > rich
> > A A condition.A So I ended up getting it towed the 1/2 mile back
> > to my
> > A A house on a flatbed.A : (A The next day when home I did the
> > following
> > A A (stats on my car listed at bottom of mail):
> > A A A * Checked fuel coming into the carb.A It was fine
> > A A A * Changed to all new spark plugs. I checked for spark and
> > it
> > was
> > A A A A getting spark at the plug just fine.A I gapped the new
> > plugs at
> > A A A A .054 based on research on this forum and other Ford
> > sources for a
> > A A A A 1974 351c in stock condition with an electronic
> > ignition.A The one
> > A A A A I tested showed good strong spark.
> > A A A * Pulled distributor cap and it looked fine as did the
> > rotor.A They
> > A A A A are both about a year old.
> > A A A * Turned rotor to see if it spun freely (e.g. roll pin may
> > have
> > A A A A sheared).A Rotor would not turn by hand so I assume it
> > was still
> > A A A A connected through the shear pin (did check it later
> > though)
> > A A A * Changed carburetor to the new Summit Racing carb I had
> > recently
> > A A A A purchased since I did notice my really old Holley 600
> > was
> > leaking
> > A A A A fuel at the base plate area.A However it was running
> > fine and
> > A A A A strong before I pulled it but it may have been running
> > rich based
> > A A A A on reading the plugs. The new carb had fuel squirting
> >
> > > so
>
> > > looked
> > A A A A good.A Figured since I had spark, that maybe there was
> > some issue
> > A A A A with the Holley.A Same symptoms with the new
> > carb....didn't start
> > A A A A in the same manner.
> > A A A * Pulled front engine cover to check static timing.A
> > Cranked the
> > A A A A engine by hand via the crank pulley and moved it to
> >
> > > show
>
> > > the timing
> > A A A A mark (16 deg BTDC) on the timing marker that I had set
> > last year.
> > A A A A The distributor rotor moved just fine to point to the
> >
> > > #1
>
> > > sparkplug
> > A A A A wire location at this timing.A This tells me that the
> > distributor
> > A A A A shear pin was probably fine and the timing chain is
> > still
> > keeping
> > A A A A things lined up
> > A A A * Still had the same issue of not starting with the same
> > symptoms
> > A A A * Pulled the distributor to check to see if the roll pin
> > sheared or
> > A A A A partially sheared.A It looked perfectly fine.A I did
> > notice the
> > A A A A inside of the distributor where the magnetic signal is
> > captured and
> > A A A A the metal wheel that rotates with the rotor to align to
> > the sender
> > A A A A from the ignition box was had some light surface rust.A
> > But since I
> > A A A A had spark at the plugs it must still be working fine.A
> > I
> > cleaned it
> > A A A A up anyway while I had it out
> > A A Stats on my Pantera:
> > A A A * Late model 74
> > A A A * Stock basic 1974 engine with 32K miles and never rebuilt
> > A A A * Stock oil pump and fuel pump
> > A A A * Edelbrock performer aluminum intake manifold installed
> > nearly 30
> > A A A A years ago
> > A A A * 600 CFM Summit Carb with electric choke and vacuum
> > secondary (same
> > A A A A as the Holley set up I just took off)
> > A A A * Duraspark 2 electronic ignition/distributor (bought from
> > Hall in
> > A A A A 1993). Mine has the green plastic colored wire support
> > coming from
> > A A A A the control box.A I wonder if this has failed?
> > A A A * New MSD coil (not the oil can type).A Bought this about
> > 4
> > months
> > A A A A ago and it was working great.A This is MSD, P/N: 8207
> > that is one
> > A A A A of the coils Jon Haas (Pantera Electronics) recommends
> > for his
> > A A A A system.A I did have a oil filled coil fail in the past
> > and that was
> > A A A A easy to diagnose and replace.A This new MSD coil made
> > the engine
> > A A A A really run nice!
> > A A A * Stock starter which cranks just fine
> > A A A * New battery (about one year old) which is strong,
> >
> > > charged
>
> > > and
> > A A A A cranks fine
> > A A A * Standard stock grounds throughout the car. I did clean
> >
> > > up
>
> > > the
> > A A A A braided ground by the end of the transaxle as part of
> > general
> > A A A A maintenance a few years ago
> > A A So I've been going through the normal FASTEC approach.A
> >
> > > Fuel,
>
> > > Air,
> > A A Spark, Timing, Exhaust, Compression.A It has fuel, air,
> > spark,
> > and
> > A A timing.A Compression hasn't been checked yet but it's a low
> > mile engine
> > A A which was running super strong.A I think a compression issue
> > would have
> > A A shown up with some symptoms rather than running great one
> > minute and
> > A A not starting the next.A As far as exhaust that is working
> >
> > > and
>
> > > not
> > A A clogged up in anyway.A I'm at a loss here as to what it
> >
> > > could
>
> > > be and
> > A A why it ran great one minute and wouldn't start the next.A
> > Next
> > I'm
> > A A thinking the Duraspark 2 box may have failed.A Not sure if
> > those fail
> > A A in a mode where you get spark at the plug but the timing of
> > the
> > spark
> > A A is off due to the box failing? Any suggestions are
> > appreciated.
> > A A Thanks, Mike
> > A A P.S.A I will post this on the Forum as well to get
> >
> > > additional
>
> > > input.A I
> > A A really want to get driving again : )
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> > --
> > Sean Korb [[5]5][5] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com [6][6][6] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512918423&sdata=tMl6a9cMqFx924dRKufzHs5VrL9eV%2BO6BrYrDcNFxOE%3D&reserved=0 (est
> > 1994)
> > "Computers are useless.A They can only give you answers." -P.
> > Picasso
> > --
> > Sean Korb [[7]7][7] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com [8][8][8] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512918423&sdata=tMl6a9cMqFx924dRKufzHs5VrL9eV%2BO6BrYrDcNFxOE%3D&reserved=0 (est
> > 1994)
> > "Computers are useless.A They can only give you answers." -P.
> > Picasso
> > References
> > 1. [9]mailto:[9] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 2. [10]mailto:[10] reillyms at live.com mailto:reillyms at live.com
> > 3. [11]mailto:[11] DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 4. [12][12] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512918423&sdata=MUyXhprwov%2FL08NqALFQcpMNPl7GqqDnT24NhRvJ0VY%3D&reserved=0
> > 5. [13]mailto:[13] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 6. [14][14] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512918423&sdata=tMl6a9cMqFx924dRKufzHs5VrL9eV%2BO6BrYrDcNFxOE%3D&reserved=0
> > 7. [15]mailto:[15] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 8. [16][16] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512918423&sdata=tMl6a9cMqFx924dRKufzHs5VrL9eV%2BO6BrYrDcNFxOE%3D&reserved=0
> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [17][17] DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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> > t messages.
> > --
> > Dave Londry
> > TRGuys.com
> > [19][19] davel at trguys.com mailto:davel at trguys.com
> > Cell 604-721-2278
> > Landline 604-589-9183
> > Skype embeddedspaces
> > References
> > 1. mailto:[1][20] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 2. mailto:[2][21] reillyms at live.com mailto:reillyms at live.com
> > 3. mailto:3][22] DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 4. [23] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512918423&sdata=MUyXhprwov%2FL08NqALFQcpMNPl7GqqDnT24NhRvJ0VY%3D&reserved=0
> > 5. mailto:5][24] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 6. [25] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512928446&sdata=XzosUOnHSH3RvpJXpwIGgKiraXQt4qtNfhMPd9pQvyw%3D&reserved=0
> > 7. mailto:7][26] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 8. [27] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512928446&sdata=XzosUOnHSH3RvpJXpwIGgKiraXQt4qtNfhMPd9pQvyw%3D&reserved=0
> > 9. mailto:[28] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 10. mailto:[29] reillyms at live.com mailto:reillyms at live.com
> > 11. mailto:[30] DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 12. [31] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512928446&sdata=JNSfMOBCqmBFQiyyIq11443hz7V6mxDQo00vLqNvVBk%3D&reserved=0
> > 13. mailto:[32] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 14. [33] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512928446&sdata=XzosUOnHSH3RvpJXpwIGgKiraXQt4qtNfhMPd9pQvyw%3D&reserved=0
> > 15. mailto:[34] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 16. [35] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512928446&sdata=XzosUOnHSH3RvpJXpwIGgKiraXQt4qtNfhMPd9pQvyw%3D&reserved=0
> > 17. mailto:[36] DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 18. [37] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512928446&sdata=JNSfMOBCqmBFQiyyIq11443hz7V6mxDQo00vLqNvVBk%3D&reserved=0
> > 19. mailto:[38] davel at trguys.com mailto:davel at trguys.com
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> > > 1. mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 2. mailto: reillyms at live.com mailto:reillyms at live.com
> > 3. mailto: DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 4. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512928446&sdata=JNSfMOBCqmBFQiyyIq11443hz7V6mxDQo00vLqNvVBk%3D&reserved=0
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> > 7. mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
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> > 9. mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 10. mailto: reillyms at live.com mailto:reillyms at live.com
> > 11. mailto: DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 12. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=Gj4B53%2F02gANDON6w9VGl7c9zoynwidmsSPf0V7E4VI%3D&reserved=0
> > 13. mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 14. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=hRCalxUQ9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
> > 15. mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
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> > 17. mailto: DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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> > 19. mailto: davel at trguys.com mailto:davel at trguys.com
> > 20. mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 21. mailto: reillyms at live.com mailto:reillyms at live.com
> > 22. mailto: DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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> > 24. mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
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> > 26. mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
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> > 28. mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 29. mailto: reillyms at live.com mailto:reillyms at live.com
> > 30. mailto: DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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> > 32. mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
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> > 36. mailto: DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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> > 38. mailto: davel at trguys.com mailto:davel at trguys.com
> > 39. mailto: DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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> >
> > > >
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> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use
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> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
> the archiving of list messages.
>
>
> Yeah Charles, I also suspect my Duraspark ignition box may have failed
> in some odd fashion. I still get spark at the plug so I assume it's
> still working? I have read that it can provide spark but provide it at
> the wrong time in a failure mode sometimes. Did you get spark at the
> plug and still have your MSD box failing? That will definitely one of
> the things I look at further.
>
>
> Thanks! Mike R.
>
>
>
> From: [1] charlesmccall at gmail.com mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020 9:42 PM
> To: [2]'Mike Reilly'; [3]'Asa Jay Laughton';
> [4] detomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Pantera Won't Start but has fuel, spark, good
> timing etc. Baffled and need Advice
>
>
> Just in case it isn't your ignition switch (this diagnosis was made
> based on
> the understanding that the engine runs just fine with the key in the
> "start"
> position but not "run". I did not understand that this is the case,
> others
> did, so perhaps you could clarify?) I have had several MSD electronic
> ignition boxes fail weirdly. I have had everything from a completely
> dead
> engine, as you describe, to one that ran rough and wouldn't rev about
> 3000
> rpm. I now carry a spare unit, and if my engine starts to misbehave I
> swap
> out the MSD unit and see if the problem has disappeared. More than
> once, it
> has. You have a different brand, but they could fail the same - can you
> borrow one to try?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso < detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com > On Behalf Of
> Mike
> Reilly
> Sent: 17. maj 2020 09:57
> To: Asa Jay Laughton < asajay at asajay.com mailto:asajay at asajay.com >;
> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Won't Start but has fuel, spark, good
> timing
> etc. Baffled and need Advice
> Thanks for the thoughts everyone. Now that I have verified that the
> distributor pin is there and in good shape I reinstalled the
> distributor.
> Checked timing and still would not start. Here is a video of me trying
> to
> start it before my first post. I tried no throttle, two pumps on the
> throttle and then holding the throttle to the floor.
> [5] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvi
> meo.com%2Fuser54794798%2Freview%2F419467000%2F7ef023747b&data=02%7C
> 01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
> aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512908439&sdata=i0HHzdm82CZ4SrpjRO%2FtkIJKt
> iWYer%2BUgQLF6GEkvt0%3D&reserved=0
> Next I will check out the ignition switch. I do have a spare if I need
> it
> which I bought probably 20 years ago at the San Diego swap meet when I
> lived
> there.
> One thing I had thought I listed in my initial email but seemed to have
> forgotten to add was that a month or so ago I was driving down a 40 MPH
> side
> street and the car just died. I had to coast to a safe parking lot.
> When I
> stopped it did restart and drove with no problem. Maybe this points to
> the
> ignition switch as well. Sorry I left that out : ( We also had an
> internet
> outage for the past three days so I was composing mail on a small
> mobile
> device with spotty connections. Internet is back up but now I need to
> get
> the Pantera back in commission. Thanks, Mike R.
> From: Asa Jay Laughton via
> DeTomaso<[6]mailto: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com >
> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020 9:02 PM
> To:
> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <mailto: detomaso at server.detomasolist.co mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.co
> m>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Won't Start but has fuel, spark, good
> timing
> etc. Baffled and need Advice
> Sounds more like it could be the column switch.
> My initial thought was the timing gear, nylon, old, breaks off, lets
> the
> chain jump a few teeth. Ask me how I know.
> Soooo... when that happened to -me-, the engine cranked over very
> -smoothly- with no backfires in the carb and none out the exhaust, it
> just
> wouldn't start. It wouldn't even catch. But boy it turned over real
> smooth, like a Singer sewing machine.
> Since this one sounds like it catches but doesn't stay running, I'd
> lean
> toward the ignition switch.
> By the way, I was able to see my cam gear had broken nylon by looking
> through the distributor hole. Not easy to do, but that's what showed
> me the
> nylon was gone.
> Asa Jay
> Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired Spokane County
> ARES-RACES-ACS
> EC/RO
> ******************************
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> [8] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww
> .teampanteraracing.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d
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> ;reserved=0
> On 5/16/2020 19:05, B Hower via DeTomaso wrote:
> > How far off does the timing have to be before you no longer get
> any
> > backfire while cranking ? I may be confused again, but it seems
> he has
> > spark while cranking, thus cam is turning so should have air,
> gas
> > squirts at carburetor. So if gas at cylinder and spark at
> cylinder,
> > shouldn't you get some type of back fire?
> > Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may
> not be
> > ! )
> >
> > On Saturday, May 16, 2020, 8:51:28 PM CDT, Dave Londry
> > < davel at trguys.com mailto:davel at trguys.com > wrote:
> > Yes, if not spark or fuel or air, then timing.
> > And per Sean, pin in distributor gear, timing gear or timing
> chain
> > gone
> > past by a few links.
> > Dave
> > On 2020-05-16 4:43 p.m., Sean Korb wrote:
> > Oh! Without taking the pump and cover off you can check the
> chain
> > slack
> > from the fuel pump hole.A Reach in before the eccentric and
> see if
> > itas loose.A Itas going to have some play but it will feel
> really
> > slack if the teeth have started to decay.
> > On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 7:39 PM Sean Korb
> [1]<[1][1] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com >
> > wrote:
> > A timing light will show how close your timing is.A I worry
> the pin
> > is
> > sheared but binding on the shaft.A It should still be
> checkable by
> > sight which sounds like what you have done.A The other thing
> to
> > check,
> > since you have a stock timing set, is the nylon gear on the
> cam.A
> > These can crack and fall into your oil pan. A compression check
> can
> > help verify it but if itas that far off youall hear it draw as
> well
> > as
> > compress without even having to put a gauge on it.
> > Iam hoping itas just the ballast resistor but if you have stock
> 50
> > year
> > old nylon gears, put replacing them on the list.
> > Sean
> > On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 2:06 PM Mike Reilly
> > [2]<[2][2] reillyms at live.com mailto:reillyms at live.com >
> > wrote:
> > A A Hi all. I'm having a starting issue with my Pantera that
> has
> > me
> > A A baffled.A I've had the car since 1992 and it's never
> left me
> > stranded.
> > A A It's been running strong and starting immediately
> including
> > right
> > A A before this situation.A Last weekend I started a drive
> with
> a
> > planned
> > A A stop at a pet supply store near my house on my way
> out.A So,
> > the car
> > A A started just fine at home, warmed up a bit and then
> drove
> > perfectly the
> > A A 1/2 mile to the pet supply store.A I turned the car
> off,
> > bought dog
> > A A food and then got back in to continue my drive.A Well,
> the
> > car
> > would
> > A A not start.A It turned over fine, the battery was
> strong, the
> > starter
> > A A was cranking but it would not start seemly like it
> couldn't
> > get
> > a
> > A A spark.A I pulled the air cleaner and could see that it
> was
> > getting fuel
> > A A as the fuel would squirt in the carb when I gave it
> throttle.A
> > I
> > A A thought I may have flooded it so I let it sit 15-20 mins
> and
> > tried
> > A A again.A Same issue.A I pulled the driver side rear
> most
> plug
> > wire and
> > A A hooked up my spark tester.A It showed spark just
> fine.A I
> > let
> > it sit
> > A A for an hour.A Same issue.A It cranked fine, would
> sound
> like
> > it wanted
> > A A to fire but would not.A Even when I floored the gas
> pedal
> > while
> > A A cranking it (like for a flooded engine) it would rev up
> very
> > high like
> > A A it was running but would not catch to keep running.A I
> then
> > pulled all
> > A A the plugs and cleaned them with parts cleaner I had with
> me.A
> > They
> > A A looked dry but black indicating they were carbon fouled
> which
> > was
> > A A probably from me trying to start it over and over
> creating a
> > rich
> > A A condition.A So I ended up getting it towed the 1/2 mile
> back
> > to my
> > A A house on a flatbed.A : (A The next day when home I did
> the
> > following
> > A A (stats on my car listed at bottom of mail):
> > A A A * Checked fuel coming into the carb.A It was fine
> > A A A * Changed to all new spark plugs. I checked for spark
> and
> > it
> > was
> > A A A A getting spark at the plug just fine.A I gapped
> the new
> > plugs at
> > A A A A .054 based on research on this forum and other
> Ford
> > sources for a
> > A A A A 1974 351c in stock condition with an electronic
> > ignition.A The one
> > A A A A I tested showed good strong spark.
> > A A A * Pulled distributor cap and it looked fine as did
> the
> > rotor.A They
> > A A A A are both about a year old.
> > A A A * Turned rotor to see if it spun freely (e.g. roll
> pin may
> > have
> > A A A A sheared).A Rotor would not turn by hand so I
> assume it
> > was still
> > A A A A connected through the shear pin (did check it
> later
> > though)
> > A A A * Changed carburetor to the new Summit Racing carb I
> had
> > recently
> > A A A A purchased since I did notice my really old Holley
> 600
> > was
> > leaking
> > A A A A fuel at the base plate area.A However it was
> running
> > fine and
> > A A A A strong before I pulled it but it may have been
> running
> > rich based
> > A A A A on reading the plugs. The new carb had fuel
> squirting
> so
> > looked
> > A A A A good.A Figured since I had spark, that maybe
> there was
> > some issue
> > A A A A with the Holley.A Same symptoms with the new
> > carb....didn't start
> > A A A A in the same manner.
> > A A A * Pulled front engine cover to check static timing.A
> > Cranked the
> > A A A A engine by hand via the crank pulley and moved it
> to
> show
> > the timing
> > A A A A mark (16 deg BTDC) on the timing marker that I had
> set
> > last year.
> > A A A A The distributor rotor moved just fine to point to
> the
> #1
> > sparkplug
> > A A A A wire location at this timing.A This tells me that
> the
> > distributor
> > A A A A shear pin was probably fine and the timing chain
> is
> > still
> > keeping
> > A A A A things lined up
> > A A A * Still had the same issue of not starting with the
> same
> > symptoms
> > A A A * Pulled the distributor to check to see if the roll
> pin
> > sheared or
> > A A A A partially sheared.A It looked perfectly fine.A I
> did
> > notice the
> > A A A A inside of the distributor where the magnetic
> signal is
> > captured and
> > A A A A the metal wheel that rotates with the rotor to
> align to
> > the sender
> > A A A A from the ignition box was had some light surface
> rust.A
> > But since I
> > A A A A had spark at the plugs it must still be working
> fine.A
> > I
> > cleaned it
> > A A A A up anyway while I had it out
> > A A Stats on my Pantera:
> > A A A * Late model 74
> > A A A * Stock basic 1974 engine with 32K miles and never
> rebuilt
> > A A A * Stock oil pump and fuel pump
> > A A A * Edelbrock performer aluminum intake manifold
> installed
> > nearly 30
> > A A A A years ago
> > A A A * 600 CFM Summit Carb with electric choke and vacuum
> > secondary (same
> > A A A A as the Holley set up I just took off)
> > A A A * Duraspark 2 electronic ignition/distributor (bought
> from
> > Hall in
> > A A A A 1993). Mine has the green plastic colored wire
> support
> > coming from
> > A A A A the control box.A I wonder if this has failed?
> > A A A * New MSD coil (not the oil can type).A Bought this
> about
> > 4
> > months
> > A A A A ago and it was working great.A This is MSD, P/N:
> 8207
> > that is one
> > A A A A of the coils Jon Haas (Pantera Electronics)
> recommends
> > for his
> > A A A A system.A I did have a oil filled coil fail in the
> past
> > and that was
> > A A A A easy to diagnose and replace.A This new MSD coil
> made
> > the engine
> > A A A A really run nice!
> > A A A * Stock starter which cranks just fine
> > A A A * New battery (about one year old) which is strong,
> charged
> > and
> > A A A A cranks fine
> > A A A * Standard stock grounds throughout the car. I did
> clean
> up
> > the
> > A A A A braided ground by the end of the transaxle as part
> of
> > general
> > A A A A maintenance a few years ago
> > A A So I've been going through the normal FASTEC approach.A
> Fuel,
> > Air,
> > A A Spark, Timing, Exhaust, Compression.A It has fuel, air,
> > spark,
> > and
> > A A timing.A Compression hasn't been checked yet but it's a
> low
> > mile engine
> > A A which was running super strong.A I think a compression
> issue
> > would have
> > A A shown up with some symptoms rather than running great
> one
> > minute and
> > A A not starting the next.A As far as exhaust that is
> working
> and
> > not
> > A A clogged up in anyway.A I'm at a loss here as to what it
> could
> > be and
> > A A why it ran great one minute and wouldn't start the
> next.A
> > Next
> > I'm
> > A A thinking the Duraspark 2 box may have failed.A Not sure
> if
> > those fail
> > A A in a mode where you get spark at the plug but the timing
> of
> > the
> > spark
> > A A is off due to the box failing? Any suggestions are
> > appreciated.
> > A A Thanks, Mike
> > A A P.S.A I will post this on the Forum as well to get
> additional
> > input.A I
> > A A really want to get driving again : )
> > _______________________________________________
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> [6][6][6] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F
> %2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c
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> (est
> > 1994)
> > "Computers are useless.A They can only give you answers." -P.
> > Picasso
> > --
> > Sean Korb [[7]7][7] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> [8][8][8] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F
> %2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c
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> (est
> > 1994)
> > "Computers are useless.A They can only give you answers." -P.
> > Picasso
> > References
> > 1. [9]mailto:[9] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 2. [10]mailto:[10] reillyms at live.com mailto:reillyms at live.com
> > 3. [11]mailto:[11] DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 4.
> [12][12] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
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> > 5. [13]mailto:[13] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 6.
> [14][14] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
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> > 7. [15]mailto:[15] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 8.
> [16][16] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
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> > _______________________________________________
> > Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [17][17] DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >
> [18][18] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
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> > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
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> > --
> > Dave Londry
> > TRGuys.com
> > [19][19] davel at trguys.com mailto:davel at trguys.com
> > Cell 604-721-2278
> > Landline 604-589-9183
> > Skype embeddedspaces
> > References
> > 1. mailto:[1][20] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 2. mailto:[2][21] reillyms at live.com mailto:reillyms at live.com
> > 3. mailto:3][22] DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 4.
> [23] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
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> qqDnT24NhRvJ0VY%3D&reserved=0
> > 5. mailto:5][24] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 6.
> [25] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsp
> korb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84
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> > 7. mailto:7][26] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 8.
> [27] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsp
> korb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84
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> > 9. mailto:[28] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 10. mailto:[29] reillyms at live.com mailto:reillyms at live.com
> > 11. mailto:[30] DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 12.
> [31] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
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> > 13. mailto:[32] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 14.
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> > 15. mailto:[34] spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 16.
> [35] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsp
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> > 17. mailto:[36] DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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> > 1. [9]mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 2. [10]mailto: reillyms at live.com mailto:reillyms at live.com
> > 3. [11]mailto: DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 4.
> [12] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
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> > 5. [13]mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 6.
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> > 7. [15]mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
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> > 9. [17]mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 10. [18]mailto: reillyms at live.com mailto:reillyms at live.com
> > 11. [19]mailto: DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 12.
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> > 13. [21]mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 14.
> [22] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsp
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> > 15. [23]mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 16.
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> > 17. [25]mailto: DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 18.
> [26] https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
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> > 19. [27]mailto: davel at trguys.com mailto:davel at trguys.com
> > 20. [28]mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
> > 21. [29]mailto: reillyms at live.com mailto:reillyms at live.com
> > 22. [30]mailto: DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> > 23.
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> > 24. [32]mailto: spkorb at gmail.com mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
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-------------- next part --------------
Mike,
Please remove and replace the MSD #8207 coil . I had one on my Pantera
for nearly 15 years and it did an excellent job. I have installed them
on numerous Panteras but recently ( over the past two years) I have
had four of them crap out within the first 6 months of use.
Most of them just die but on one of the cars, the car died and
restarted several times until , on about the 4th time, it died and
would not start.
I have spoken with MSD about it and they don't seem to care and have
offered no solution. For anyone running this coil, put your hand on it
after a 30 minute drive and feel how hot it gets. It doesn't seem to
matter where it is mounted. It runs extremely hot. Please take it off
and throw it away . Or at least carry a spare with you .
Ron McCall
On May 17, 2020 at 12:59 AM Mike Reilly < [1]reillyms at live.com> wrote:
Yeah Charles, I also suspect my Duraspark ignition box may have failed
in some odd fashion. I still get spark at the plug so I assume it's
still working? I have read that it can provide spark but provide it at
the wrong time in a failure mode sometimes. Did you get spark at the
plug and still have your MSD box failing? That will definitely one of
the things I look at further.
Thanks! Mike R.
From: [2]charlesmccall at gmail.com<mailto: [3]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020 9:42 PM
To: 'Mike Reilly'<mailto: [4]reillyms at live.com>; 'Asa Jay
Laughton'<mailto: [5]asajay at asajay.com>;
[6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:
[7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Pantera Won't Start but has fuel, spark, good
timing etc. Baffled and need Advice
Just in case it isn't your ignition switch (this diagnosis was made
based on
the understanding that the engine runs just fine with the key in the
"start"
position but not "run". I did not understand that this is the case,
others
did, so perhaps you could clarify?) I have had several MSD electronic
ignition boxes fail weirdly. I have had everything from a completely
dead
engine, as you describe, to one that ran rough and wouldn't rev about
3000
rpm. I now carry a spare unit, and if my engine starts to misbehave I
swap
out the MSD unit and see if the problem has disappeared. More than
once, it
has. You have a different brand, but they could fail the same - can you
borrow one to try?
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso < [8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On Behalf
Of Mike
Reilly
Sent: 17. maj 2020 09:57
To: Asa Jay Laughton < [9]asajay at asajay.com>;
[10]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Won't Start but has fuel, spark, good
timing
etc. Baffled and need Advice
Thanks for the thoughts everyone. Now that I have verified that the
distributor pin is there and in good shape I reinstalled the
distributor.
Checked timing and still would not start. Here is a video of me trying
to
start it before my first post. I tried no throttle, two pumps on the
throttle and then holding the throttle to the floor.
[11]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fv
imeo.com%2Fuser54794798%2Freview%2F419467000%2F7ef023747b&data=02%7C01%
7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaa
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BUgQLF6GEkvt0%3D&reserved=0
Next I will check out the ignition switch. I do have a spare if I need
it
which I bought probably 20 years ago at the San Diego swap meet when I
lived
there.
One thing I had thought I listed in my initial email but seemed to have
forgotten to add was that a month or so ago I was driving down a 40 MPH
side
street and the car just died. I had to coast to a safe parking lot.
When I
stopped it did restart and drove with no problem. Maybe this points to
the
ignition switch as well. Sorry I left that out : ( We also had an
internet
outage for the past three days so I was composing mail on a small
mobile
device with spotty connections. Internet is back up but now I need to
get
the Pantera back in commission. Thanks, Mike R.
From: Asa Jay Laughton via DeTomaso<mailto:
[12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020 9:02 PM
To:
[13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:
[14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Won't Start but has fuel, spark, good
timing
etc. Baffled and need Advice
Sounds more like it could be the column switch.
My initial thought was the timing gear, nylon, old, breaks off, lets
the
chain jump a few teeth. Ask me how I know.
Soooo... when that happened to -me-, the engine cranked over very
-smoothly- with no backfires in the carb and none out the exhaust, it
just
wouldn't start. It wouldn't even catch. But boy it turned over real
smooth, like a Singer sewing machine.
Since this one sounds like it catches but doesn't stay running, I'd
lean
toward the ignition switch.
By the way, I was able to see my cam gear had broken nylon by looking
through the distributor hole. Not easy to do, but that's what showed me
the
nylon was gone.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired Spokane County
ARES-RACES-ACS
EC/RO
******************************
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On 5/16/2020 19:05, B Hower via DeTomaso wrote:
How far off does the timing have to be before you no longer get any
backfire while cranking ? I may be confused again, but it seems he has
spark while cranking, thus cam is turning so should have air, gas
squirts at carburetor. So if gas at cylinder and spark at cylinder,
shouldn't you get some type of back fire?
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
! )
On Saturday, May 16, 2020, 8:51:28 PM CDT, Dave Londry
< [17]davel at trguys.com> wrote:
Yes, if not spark or fuel or air, then timing.
And per Sean, pin in distributor gear, timing gear or timing chain
gone
past by a few links.
Dave
On 2020-05-16 4:43 p.m., Sean Korb wrote:
Oh! Without taking the pump and cover off you can check the chain
slack
from the fuel pump hole.A Reach in before the eccentric and see if
itas loose.A Itas going to have some play but it will feel really
slack if the teeth have started to decay.
On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 7:39 PM Sean Korb
[1]<[1][1] [18]spkorb at gmail.com>
wrote:
A timing light will show how close your timing is.A I worry the pin
is
sheared but binding on the shaft.A It should still be checkable by
sight which sounds like what you have done.A The other thing to
check,
since you have a stock timing set, is the nylon gear on the cam.A
These can crack and fall into your oil pan. A compression check can
help verify it but if itas that far off youall hear it draw as well
as
compress without even having to put a gauge on it.
Iam hoping itas just the ballast resistor but if you have stock 50
year
old nylon gears, put replacing them on the list.
Sean
On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 2:06 PM Mike Reilly
[2]<[2][2] [19]reillyms at live.com>
wrote:
A A Hi all. I'm having a starting issue with my Pantera that has
me
A A baffled.A I've had the car since 1992 and it's never left me
stranded.
A A It's been running strong and starting immediately including
right
A A before this situation.A Last weekend I started a drive with
a
planned
A A stop at a pet supply store near my house on my way out.A So,
the car
A A started just fine at home, warmed up a bit and then drove
perfectly the
A A 1/2 mile to the pet supply store.A I turned the car off,
bought dog
A A food and then got back in to continue my drive.A Well, the
car
would
A A not start.A It turned over fine, the battery was strong, the
starter
A A was cranking but it would not start seemly like it couldn't
get
a
A A spark.A I pulled the air cleaner and could see that it was
getting fuel
A A as the fuel would squirt in the carb when I gave it
throttle.A
I
A A thought I may have flooded it so I let it sit 15-20 mins and
tried
A A again.A Same issue.A I pulled the driver side rear most
plug
wire and
A A hooked up my spark tester.A It showed spark just fine.A I
let
it sit
A A for an hour.A Same issue.A It cranked fine, would sound
like
it wanted
A A to fire but would not.A Even when I floored the gas pedal
while
A A cranking it (like for a flooded engine) it would rev up very
high like
A A it was running but would not catch to keep running.A I then
pulled all
A A the plugs and cleaned them with parts cleaner I had with me.A
They
A A looked dry but black indicating they were carbon fouled which
was
A A probably from me trying to start it over and over creating a
rich
A A condition.A So I ended up getting it towed the 1/2 mile back
to my
A A house on a flatbed.A : (A The next day when home I did the
following
A A (stats on my car listed at bottom of mail):
A A A * Checked fuel coming into the carb.A It was fine
A A A * Changed to all new spark plugs. I checked for spark and
it
was
A A A A getting spark at the plug just fine.A I gapped the new
plugs at
A A A A .054 based on research on this forum and other Ford
sources for a
A A A A 1974 351c in stock condition with an electronic
ignition.A The one
A A A A I tested showed good strong spark.
A A A * Pulled distributor cap and it looked fine as did the
rotor.A They
A A A A are both about a year old.
A A A * Turned rotor to see if it spun freely (e.g. roll pin may
have
A A A A sheared).A Rotor would not turn by hand so I assume it
was still
A A A A connected through the shear pin (did check it later
though)
A A A * Changed carburetor to the new Summit Racing carb I had
recently
A A A A purchased since I did notice my really old Holley 600
was
leaking
A A A A fuel at the base plate area.A However it was running
fine and
A A A A strong before I pulled it but it may have been running
rich based
A A A A on reading the plugs. The new carb had fuel squirting
so
looked
A A A A good.A Figured since I had spark, that maybe there was
some issue
A A A A with the Holley.A Same symptoms with the new
carb....didn't start
A A A A in the same manner.
A A A * Pulled front engine cover to check static timing.A
Cranked the
A A A A engine by hand via the crank pulley and moved it to
show
the timing
A A A A mark (16 deg BTDC) on the timing marker that I had set
last year.
A A A A The distributor rotor moved just fine to point to the
#1
sparkplug
A A A A wire location at this timing.A This tells me that the
distributor
A A A A shear pin was probably fine and the timing chain is
still
keeping
A A A A things lined up
A A A * Still had the same issue of not starting with the same
symptoms
A A A * Pulled the distributor to check to see if the roll pin
sheared or
A A A A partially sheared.A It looked perfectly fine.A I did
notice the
A A A A inside of the distributor where the magnetic signal is
captured and
A A A A the metal wheel that rotates with the rotor to align to
the sender
A A A A from the ignition box was had some light surface rust.A
But since I
A A A A had spark at the plugs it must still be working fine.A
I
cleaned it
A A A A up anyway while I had it out
A A Stats on my Pantera:
A A A * Late model 74
A A A * Stock basic 1974 engine with 32K miles and never rebuilt
A A A * Stock oil pump and fuel pump
A A A * Edelbrock performer aluminum intake manifold installed
nearly 30
A A A A years ago
A A A * 600 CFM Summit Carb with electric choke and vacuum
secondary (same
A A A A as the Holley set up I just took off)
A A A * Duraspark 2 electronic ignition/distributor (bought from
Hall in
A A A A 1993). Mine has the green plastic colored wire support
coming from
A A A A the control box.A I wonder if this has failed?
A A A * New MSD coil (not the oil can type).A Bought this about
4
months
A A A A ago and it was working great.A This is MSD, P/N: 8207
that is one
A A A A of the coils Jon Haas (Pantera Electronics) recommends
for his
A A A A system.A I did have a oil filled coil fail in the past
and that was
A A A A easy to diagnose and replace.A This new MSD coil made
the engine
A A A A really run nice!
A A A * Stock starter which cranks just fine
A A A * New battery (about one year old) which is strong,
charged
and
A A A A cranks fine
A A A * Standard stock grounds throughout the car. I did clean
up
the
A A A A braided ground by the end of the transaxle as part of
general
A A A A maintenance a few years ago
A A So I've been going through the normal FASTEC approach.A
Fuel,
Air,
A A Spark, Timing, Exhaust, Compression.A It has fuel, air,
spark,
and
A A timing.A Compression hasn't been checked yet but it's a low
mile engine
A A which was running super strong.A I think a compression issue
would have
A A shown up with some symptoms rather than running great one
minute and
A A not starting the next.A As far as exhaust that is working
and
not
A A clogged up in anyway.A I'm at a loss here as to what it
could
be and
A A why it ran great one minute and wouldn't start the next.A
Next
I'm
A A thinking the Duraspark 2 box may have failed.A Not sure if
those fail
A A in a mode where you get spark at the plug but the timing of
the
spark
A A is off due to the box failing? Any suggestions are
appreciated.
A A Thanks, Mike
A A P.S.A I will post this on the Forum as well to get
additional
input.A I
A A really want to get driving again : )
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Yeah Charles, I also suspect my Duraspark ignition box may have failed
in some odd fashion. I still get spark at the plug so I assume it's
still working? I have read that it can provide spark but provide it at
the wrong time in a failure mode sometimes. Did you get spark at the
plug and still have your MSD box failing? That will definitely one of
the things I look at further.
Thanks! Mike R.
From: [1] [100]charlesmccall at gmail.com
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020 9:42 PM
To: [2]'Mike Reilly'; [3]'Asa Jay Laughton';
[4] [101]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Pantera Won't Start but has fuel, spark, good
timing etc. Baffled and need Advice
Just in case it isn't your ignition switch (this diagnosis was made
based on
the understanding that the engine runs just fine with the key in the
"start"
position but not "run". I did not understand that this is the case,
others
did, so perhaps you could clarify?) I have had several MSD electronic
ignition boxes fail weirdly. I have had everything from a completely
dead
engine, as you describe, to one that ran rough and wouldn't rev about
3000
rpm. I now carry a spare unit, and if my engine starts to misbehave I
swap
out the MSD unit and see if the problem has disappeared. More than
once, it
has. You have a different brand, but they could fail the same - can you
borrow one to try?
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso < [102]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On
Behalf Of
Mike
Reilly
Sent: 17. maj 2020 09:57
To: Asa Jay Laughton < [103]asajay at asajay.com>;
[104]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Won't Start but has fuel, spark, good
timing
etc. Baffled and need Advice
Thanks for the thoughts everyone. Now that I have verified that the
distributor pin is there and in good shape I reinstalled the
distributor.
Checked timing and still would not start. Here is a video of me trying
to
start it before my first post. I tried no throttle, two pumps on the
throttle and then holding the throttle to the floor.
[5]
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Next I will check out the ignition switch. I do have a spare if I need
it
which I bought probably 20 years ago at the San Diego swap meet when I
lived
there.
One thing I had thought I listed in my initial email but seemed to have
forgotten to add was that a month or so ago I was driving down a 40 MPH
side
street and the car just died. I had to coast to a safe parking lot.
When I
stopped it did restart and drove with no problem. Maybe this points to
the
ignition switch as well. Sorry I left that out : ( We also had an
internet
outage for the past three days so I was composing mail on a small
mobile
device with spotty connections. Internet is back up but now I need to
get
the Pantera back in commission. Thanks, Mike R.
From: Asa Jay Laughton via
DeTomaso<[6]mailto: [106]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020 9:02 PM
To:
[107]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:
[108]detomaso at server.detomasolist.co
m>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Pantera Won't Start but has fuel, spark, good
timing
etc. Baffled and need Advice
Sounds more like it could be the column switch.
My initial thought was the timing gear, nylon, old, breaks off, lets
the
chain jump a few teeth. Ask me how I know.
Soooo... when that happened to -me-, the engine cranked over very
-smoothly- with no backfires in the carb and none out the exhaust, it
just
wouldn't start. It wouldn't even catch. But boy it turned over real
smooth, like a Singer sewing machine.
Since this one sounds like it catches but doesn't stay running, I'd
lean
toward the ignition switch.
By the way, I was able to see my cam gear had broken nylon by looking
through the distributor hole. Not easy to do, but that's what showed
me the
nylon was gone.
Asa Jay
Asa Jay Laughton - W7TSC, MSgt, USAFR, Retired Spokane County
ARES-RACES-ACS
EC/RO
******************************
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On 5/16/2020 19:05, B Hower via DeTomaso wrote:
> How far off does the timing have to be before you no longer get
any
> backfire while cranking ? I may be confused again, but it seems
he has
> spark while cranking, thus cam is turning so should have air,
gas
> squirts at carburetor. So if gas at cylinder and spark at
cylinder,
> shouldn't you get some type of back fire?
> Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may
not be
> ! )
>
> On Saturday, May 16, 2020, 8:51:28 PM CDT, Dave Londry
> < [111]davel at trguys.com> wrote:
> Yes, if not spark or fuel or air, then timing.
> And per Sean, pin in distributor gear, timing gear or timing
chain
> gone
> past by a few links.
> Dave
> On 2020-05-16 4:43 p.m., Sean Korb wrote:
> Oh! Without taking the pump and cover off you can check the
chain
> slack
> from the fuel pump hole.A Reach in before the eccentric and
see if
> itas loose.A Itas going to have some play but it will feel
really
> slack if the teeth have started to decay.
> On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 7:39 PM Sean Korb
[1]<[1][1] [112]spkorb at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> A timing light will show how close your timing is.A I worry
the pin
> is
> sheared but binding on the shaft.A It should still be
checkable by
> sight which sounds like what you have done.A The other thing
to
> check,
> since you have a stock timing set, is the nylon gear on the
cam.A
> These can crack and fall into your oil pan. A compression check
can
> help verify it but if itas that far off youall hear it draw as
well
> as
> compress without even having to put a gauge on it.
> Iam hoping itas just the ballast resistor but if you have stock
50
> year
> old nylon gears, put replacing them on the list.
> Sean
> On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 2:06 PM Mike Reilly
> [2]<[2][2] [113]reillyms at live.com>
> wrote:
> A A Hi all. I'm having a starting issue with my Pantera that
has
> me
> A A baffled.A I've had the car since 1992 and it's never
left me
> stranded.
> A A It's been running strong and starting immediately
including
> right
> A A before this situation.A Last weekend I started a drive
with
a
> planned
> A A stop at a pet supply store near my house on my way
out.A So,
> the car
> A A started just fine at home, warmed up a bit and then
drove
> perfectly the
> A A 1/2 mile to the pet supply store.A I turned the car
off,
> bought dog
> A A food and then got back in to continue my drive.A Well,
the
> car
> would
> A A not start.A It turned over fine, the battery was
strong, the
> starter
> A A was cranking but it would not start seemly like it
couldn't
> get
> a
> A A spark.A I pulled the air cleaner and could see that it
was
> getting fuel
> A A as the fuel would squirt in the carb when I gave it
throttle.A
> I
> A A thought I may have flooded it so I let it sit 15-20 mins
and
> tried
> A A again.A Same issue.A I pulled the driver side rear
most
plug
> wire and
> A A hooked up my spark tester.A It showed spark just
fine.A I
> let
> it sit
> A A for an hour.A Same issue.A It cranked fine, would
sound
like
> it wanted
> A A to fire but would not.A Even when I floored the gas
pedal
> while
> A A cranking it (like for a flooded engine) it would rev up
very
> high like
> A A it was running but would not catch to keep running.A I
then
> pulled all
> A A the plugs and cleaned them with parts cleaner I had with
me.A
> They
> A A looked dry but black indicating they were carbon fouled
which
> was
> A A probably from me trying to start it over and over
creating a
> rich
> A A condition.A So I ended up getting it towed the 1/2 mile
back
> to my
> A A house on a flatbed.A : (A The next day when home I did
the
> following
> A A (stats on my car listed at bottom of mail):
> A A A * Checked fuel coming into the carb.A It was fine
> A A A * Changed to all new spark plugs. I checked for spark
and
> it
> was
> A A A A getting spark at the plug just fine.A I gapped
the new
> plugs at
> A A A A .054 based on research on this forum and other
Ford
> sources for a
> A A A A 1974 351c in stock condition with an electronic
> ignition.A The one
> A A A A I tested showed good strong spark.
> A A A * Pulled distributor cap and it looked fine as did
the
> rotor.A They
> A A A A are both about a year old.
> A A A * Turned rotor to see if it spun freely (e.g. roll
pin may
> have
> A A A A sheared).A Rotor would not turn by hand so I
assume it
> was still
> A A A A connected through the shear pin (did check it
later
> though)
> A A A * Changed carburetor to the new Summit Racing carb I
had
> recently
> A A A A purchased since I did notice my really old Holley
600
> was
> leaking
> A A A A fuel at the base plate area.A However it was
running
> fine and
> A A A A strong before I pulled it but it may have been
running
> rich based
> A A A A on reading the plugs. The new carb had fuel
squirting
so
> looked
> A A A A good.A Figured since I had spark, that maybe
there was
> some issue
> A A A A with the Holley.A Same symptoms with the new
> carb....didn't start
> A A A A in the same manner.
> A A A * Pulled front engine cover to check static timing.A
> Cranked the
> A A A A engine by hand via the crank pulley and moved it
to
show
> the timing
> A A A A mark (16 deg BTDC) on the timing marker that I had
set
> last year.
> A A A A The distributor rotor moved just fine to point to
the
#1
> sparkplug
> A A A A wire location at this timing.A This tells me that
the
> distributor
> A A A A shear pin was probably fine and the timing chain
is
> still
> keeping
> A A A A things lined up
> A A A * Still had the same issue of not starting with the
same
> symptoms
> A A A * Pulled the distributor to check to see if the roll
pin
> sheared or
> A A A A partially sheared.A It looked perfectly fine.A I
did
> notice the
> A A A A inside of the distributor where the magnetic
signal is
> captured and
> A A A A the metal wheel that rotates with the rotor to
align to
> the sender
> A A A A from the ignition box was had some light surface
rust.A
> But since I
> A A A A had spark at the plugs it must still be working
fine.A
> I
> cleaned it
> A A A A up anyway while I had it out
> A A Stats on my Pantera:
> A A A * Late model 74
> A A A * Stock basic 1974 engine with 32K miles and never
rebuilt
> A A A * Stock oil pump and fuel pump
> A A A * Edelbrock performer aluminum intake manifold
installed
> nearly 30
> A A A A years ago
> A A A * 600 CFM Summit Carb with electric choke and vacuum
> secondary (same
> A A A A as the Holley set up I just took off)
> A A A * Duraspark 2 electronic ignition/distributor (bought
from
> Hall in
> A A A A 1993). Mine has the green plastic colored wire
support
> coming from
> A A A A the control box.A I wonder if this has failed?
> A A A * New MSD coil (not the oil can type).A Bought this
about
> 4
> months
> A A A A ago and it was working great.A This is MSD, P/N:
8207
> that is one
> A A A A of the coils Jon Haas (Pantera Electronics)
recommends
> for his
> A A A A system.A I did have a oil filled coil fail in the
past
> and that was
> A A A A easy to diagnose and replace.A This new MSD coil
made
> the engine
> A A A A really run nice!
> A A A * Stock starter which cranks just fine
> A A A * New battery (about one year old) which is strong,
charged
> and
> A A A A cranks fine
> A A A * Standard stock grounds throughout the car. I did
clean
up
> the
> A A A A braided ground by the end of the transaxle as part
of
> general
> A A A A maintenance a few years ago
> A A So I've been going through the normal FASTEC approach.A
Fuel,
> Air,
> A A Spark, Timing, Exhaust, Compression.A It has fuel, air,
> spark,
> and
> A A timing.A Compression hasn't been checked yet but it's a
low
> mile engine
> A A which was running super strong.A I think a compression
issue
> would have
> A A shown up with some symptoms rather than running great
one
> minute and
> A A not starting the next.A As far as exhaust that is
working
and
> not
> A A clogged up in anyway.A I'm at a loss here as to what it
could
> be and
> A A why it ran great one minute and wouldn't start the
next.A
> Next
> I'm
> A A thinking the Duraspark 2 box may have failed.A Not sure
if
> those fail
> A A in a mode where you get spark at the plug but the timing
of
> the
> spark
> A A is off due to the box failing? Any suggestions are
> appreciated.
> A A Thanks, Mike
> A A P.S.A I will post this on the Forum as well to get
additional
> input.A I
> A A really want to get driving again : )
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> Sean Korb [[7]7][7] [118]spkorb at gmail.com
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> References
> 1. [9]mailto:[9] [120]spkorb at gmail.com
> 2. [10]mailto:[10] [121]reillyms at live.com
> 3. [11]mailto:[11] [122]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 4.
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> 6.
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> [19][19] [130]davel at trguys.com
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> 1. mailto:[1][20] [131]spkorb at gmail.com
> 2. mailto:[2][21] [132]reillyms at live.com
> 3. mailto:3][22] [133]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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[23]
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> 5. mailto:5][24] [135]spkorb at gmail.com
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[25]
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[27]
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> 9. mailto:[28] [139]spkorb at gmail.com
> 10. mailto:[29] [140]reillyms at live.com
> 11. mailto:[30] [141]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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[31]
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[33]
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[35]
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[37]
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> 1. [9]mailto: [152]spkorb at gmail.com
> 2. [10]mailto: [153]reillyms at live.com
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[14]
[157]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
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korb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84
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RCalxUQ9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
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[16]
[159]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
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> 9. [17]mailto: [160]spkorb at gmail.com
> 10. [18]mailto: [161]reillyms at live.com
> 11. [19]mailto: [162]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 12.
[20]
[163]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
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widmsSPf0V7E4VI%3D&reserved=0
> 13. [21]mailto: [164]spkorb at gmail.com
> 14.
[22]
[165]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
p
korb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84
df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=h
RCalxUQ9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
> 15. [23]mailto: [166]spkorb at gmail.com
> 16.
[24]
[167]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
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korb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84
df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=h
RCalxUQ9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
> 17. [25]mailto: [168]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 18.
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[169]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
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widmsSPf0V7E4VI%3D&reserved=0
> 19. [27]mailto: [170]davel at trguys.com
> 20. [28]mailto: [171]spkorb at gmail.com
> 21. [29]mailto: [172]reillyms at live.com
> 22. [30]mailto: [173]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 23.
[31]
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[33]
[176]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
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> 27.
[35]
[178]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
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> 28. [36]mailto: [179]spkorb at gmail.com
> 29. [37]mailto: [180]reillyms at live.com
> 30. [38]mailto: [181]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 31.
[39]
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> 32. [40]mailto: [183]spkorb at gmail.com
> 33.
[41]
[184]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
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> 35.
[43]
[186]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
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> 36. [44]mailto: [187]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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> 39. [47]mailto: [190]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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2. mailto: [195]reillyms at live.com
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9. mailto: [202]spkorb at gmail.com
10. mailto: [203]reillyms at live.com
11. mailto: [204]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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13. mailto: [206]spkorb at gmail.com
14.
[207]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
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15. mailto: [208]spkorb at gmail.com
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[209]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
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9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
17. mailto: [210]spkorb at gmail.com
18. mailto: [211]reillyms at live.com
19. mailto: [212]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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[213]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
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21. mailto: [214]spkorb at gmail.com
22.
[215]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
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27. mailto: [220]davel at trguys.com
28. mailto: [221]spkorb at gmail.com
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31.
[224]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
erver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%
7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7
C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=Gj4B53%2F02gANDON6w9VGl7c9zoynwidmsSP
f0V7E4VI%3D&reserved=0
32. mailto: [225]spkorb at gmail.com
33.
[226]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
pkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9
e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=hRCalxUQ
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34. mailto: [227]spkorb at gmail.com
35.
[228]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
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e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=hRCalxUQ
9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
36. mailto: [229]spkorb at gmail.com
37. mailto: [230]reillyms at live.com
38. mailto: [231]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
39.
[232]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
erver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%
7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7
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40. mailto: [233]spkorb at gmail.com
41.
[234]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
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e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512948433&sdata=L0%2BI%2
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42. mailto: [235]spkorb at gmail.com
43.
[236]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
pkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9
e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512948433&sdata=L0%2BI%2
FLlIThYuMlOPjqNvO%2BLwoJPvxxq2t4ediqEzR94%3D&reserved=0
44. mailto: [237]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
45.
[238]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
erver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%
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ewy2Ec%3D&reserved=0
46. mailto: [239]davel at trguys.com
47. mailto: [240]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
48.
[241]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
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49.
[242]https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs
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References
1. mailto:reillyms at live.com
2. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
3. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
4. mailto:reillyms at live.com
5. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
9. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
10. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
11. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvimeo.com%2Fuser54794798%2Freview%2F419467000%2F7ef023747b&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512908439&sdata=i0HHzdm82CZ4SrpjRO%2FtkIJKtiWYer%2BUgQLF6GEkvt0%3D&reserved=0
12. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
13. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
15. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fw7tsc.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512908439&sdata=BgZ%2FmHMKr6GeqdUDCRYkerXjoGis5MqDNfK80JId9zQ%3D&reserved=0
16. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.teampanteraracing.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512908439&sdata=4kMHM8f6hdA%2F%2FXmF%2BOj%2FR5rXdcxWenh5RAMMxEq0L4Y%3D&reserved=0
17. mailto:davel at trguys.com
18. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
19. mailto:reillyms at live.com
20. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
21. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512918423&sdata=MUyXhprwov%2FL08NqALFQcpMNPl7GqqDnT24NhRvJ0VY%3D&reserved=0
22. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
23. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512918423&sdata=tMl6a9cMqFx924dRKufzHs5VrL9eV%2BO6BrYrDcNFxOE%3D&reserved=0
24. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
25. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512918423&sdata=tMl6a9cMqFx924dRKufzHs5VrL9eV%2BO6BrYrDcNFxOE%3D&reserved=0
26. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
27. mailto:reillyms at live.com
28. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
29. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512918423&sdata=MUyXhprwov%2FL08NqALFQcpMNPl7GqqDnT24NhRvJ0VY%3D&reserved=0
30. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
31. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512918423&sdata=tMl6a9cMqFx924dRKufzHs5VrL9eV%2BO6BrYrDcNFxOE%3D&reserved=0
32. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
33. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512918423&sdata=tMl6a9cMqFx924dRKufzHs5VrL9eV%2BO6BrYrDcNFxOE%3D&reserved=0
34. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
35. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512918423&sdata=MUyXhprwov%2FL08NqALFQcpMNPl7GqqDnT24NhRvJ0VY%3D&reserved=0
36. mailto:davel at trguys.com
37. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
38. mailto:reillyms at live.com
39. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
40. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512918423&sdata=MUyXhprwov%2FL08NqALFQcpMNPl7GqqDnT24NhRvJ0VY%3D&reserved=0
41. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
42. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512928446&sdata=XzosUOnHSH3RvpJXpwIGgKiraXQt4qtNfhMPd9pQvyw%3D&reserved=0
43. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
44. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512928446&sdata=XzosUOnHSH3RvpJXpwIGgKiraXQt4qtNfhMPd9pQvyw%3D&reserved=0
45. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
46. mailto:reillyms at live.com
47. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
48. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512928446&sdata=JNSfMOBCqmBFQiyyIq11443hz7V6mxDQo00vLqNvVBk%3D&reserved=0
49. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
50. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512928446&sdata=XzosUOnHSH3RvpJXpwIGgKiraXQt4qtNfhMPd9pQvyw%3D&reserved=0
51. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
52. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512928446&sdata=XzosUOnHSH3RvpJXpwIGgKiraXQt4qtNfhMPd9pQvyw%3D&reserved=0
53. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
54. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512928446&sdata=JNSfMOBCqmBFQiyyIq11443hz7V6mxDQo00vLqNvVBk%3D&reserved=0
55. mailto:davel at trguys.com
56. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
57. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512928446&sdata=JNSfMOBCqmBFQiyyIq11443hz7V6mxDQo00vLqNvVBk%3D&reserved=0
58. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
59. mailto:reillyms at live.com
60. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
61. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512928446&sdata=JNSfMOBCqmBFQiyyIq11443hz7V6mxDQo00vLqNvVBk%3D&reserved=0
62. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
63. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=hRCalxUQ9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
64. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
65. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=hRCalxUQ9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
66. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
67. mailto:reillyms at live.com
68. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
69. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=Gj4B53%2F02gANDON6w9VGl7c9zoynwidmsSPf0V7E4VI%3D&reserved=0
70. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
71. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=hRCalxUQ9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
72. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
73. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=hRCalxUQ9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
74. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
75. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=Gj4B53%2F02gANDON6w9VGl7c9zoynwidmsSPf0V7E4VI%3D&reserved=0
76. mailto:davel at trguys.com
77. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
78. mailto:reillyms at live.com
79. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
80. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=Gj4B53%2F02gANDON6w9VGl7c9zoynwidmsSPf0V7E4VI%3D&reserved=0
81. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
82. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=hRCalxUQ9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
83. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
84. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=hRCalxUQ9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
85. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
86. mailto:reillyms at live.com
87. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
88. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512948433&sdata=RgRg4tDwOj7ON7PFLtv3JmK8LRxFh7RS7omHpewy2Ec%3D&reserved=0
89. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
90. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512948433&sdata=L0%2BI%2FLlIThYuMlOPjqNvO%2BLwoJPvxxq2t4ediqEzR94%3D&reserved=0
91. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
92. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512948433&sdata=L0%2BI%2FLlIThYuMlOPjqNvO%2BLwoJPvxxq2t4ediqEzR94%3D&reserved=0
93. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
94. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512948433&sdata=RgRg4tDwOj7ON7PFLtv3JmK8LRxFh7RS7omHpewy2Ec%3D&reserved=0
95. mailto:davel at trguys.com
96. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
97. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512948433&sdata=RgRg4tDwOj7ON7PFLtv3JmK8LRxFh7RS7omHpewy2Ec%3D&reserved=0
98. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
99. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512948433&sdata=RgRg4tDwOj7ON7PFLtv3JmK8LRxFh7RS7omHpewy2Ec%3D&reserved=0
100. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
101. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
102. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
103. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
104. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
105. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvi
106. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
107. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
108. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.co
109. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fw7t
110. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww
111. mailto:davel at trguys.com
112. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
113. mailto:reillyms at live.com
114. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
115. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F
116. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
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118. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
119. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F
120. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
121. mailto:reillyms at live.com
122. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
123. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
124. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
125. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
126. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
127. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
128. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
129. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%
130. mailto:davel at trguys.com
131. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
132. mailto:reillyms at live.com
133. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
134. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
135. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
136. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsp
137. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
138. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsp
139. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
140. mailto:reillyms at live.com
141. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
142. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
143. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
144. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsp
145. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
146. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsp
147. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
148. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
149. mailto:davel at trguys.com
150. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
151. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
152. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
153. mailto:reillyms at live.com
154. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
155. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
156. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
157. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsp
158. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
159. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsp
160. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
161. mailto:reillyms at live.com
162. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
163. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
164. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
165. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsp
166. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
167. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsp
168. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
169. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
170. mailto:davel at trguys.com
171. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
172. mailto:reillyms at live.com
173. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
174. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
175. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
176. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsp
177. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
178. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsp
179. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
180. mailto:reillyms at live.com
181. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
182. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
183. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
184. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsp
185. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
186. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsp
187. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
188. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
189. mailto:davel at trguys.com
190. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
191. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
192. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
193. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
194. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
195. mailto:reillyms at live.com
196. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
197. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
198. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvimeo.com%2Fuser54794798%2Freview%2F419467000%2F7ef023747b&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512908439&sdata=i0HHzdm82CZ4SrpjRO%2FtkIJKtiWYer%2BUgQLF6GEkvt0%3D&reserved=0
199. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
200. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fw7tsc.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512908439&sdata=BgZ%2FmHMKr6GeqdUDCRYkerXjoGis5MqDNfK80JId9zQ%3D&reserved=0
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202. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
203. mailto:reillyms at live.com
204. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
205. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512928446&sdata=JNSfMOBCqmBFQiyyIq11443hz7V6mxDQo00vLqNvVBk%3D&reserved=0
206. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
207. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=hRCalxUQ9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
208. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
209. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=hRCalxUQ9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
210. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
211. mailto:reillyms at live.com
212. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
213. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=Gj4B53%2F02gANDON6w9VGl7c9zoynwidmsSPf0V7E4VI%3D&reserved=0
214. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
215. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=hRCalxUQ9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
216. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
217. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=hRCalxUQ9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
218. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
219. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=Gj4B53%2F02gANDON6w9VGl7c9zoynwidmsSPf0V7E4VI%3D&reserved=0
220. mailto:davel at trguys.com
221. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
222. mailto:reillyms at live.com
223. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
224. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=Gj4B53%2F02gANDON6w9VGl7c9zoynwidmsSPf0V7E4VI%3D&reserved=0
225. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
226. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=hRCalxUQ9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
227. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
228. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512938439&sdata=hRCalxUQ9iREXRfIyc3eex4814RknJZhXJmuHHVzQLc%3D&reserved=0
229. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
230. mailto:reillyms at live.com
231. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
232. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512948433&sdata=RgRg4tDwOj7ON7PFLtv3JmK8LRxFh7RS7omHpewy2Ec%3D&reserved=0
233. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
234. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512948433&sdata=L0%2BI%2FLlIThYuMlOPjqNvO%2BLwoJPvxxq2t4ediqEzR94%3D&reserved=0
235. mailto:spkorb at gmail.com
236. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspkorb.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512948433&sdata=L0%2BI%2FLlIThYuMlOPjqNvO%2BLwoJPvxxq2t4ediqEzR94%3D&reserved=0
237. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
238. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512948433&sdata=RgRg4tDwOj7ON7PFLtv3JmK8LRxFh7RS7omHpewy2Ec%3D&reserved=0
239. mailto:davel at trguys.com
240. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
241. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512948433&sdata=RgRg4tDwOj7ON7PFLtv3JmK8LRxFh7RS7omHpewy2Ec%3D&reserved=0
242. https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9080f2f8b1de46a2396f08d7fa1cb55c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637252873512948433&sdata=RgRg4tDwOj7ON7PFLtv3JmK8LRxFh7RS7omHpewy2Ec%3D&reserved=0
243. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
244. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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