[DeTomaso] [EXTERNAL] Re: Seatbelts
Jeff Detrich
jjdetrich at gmail.com
Sun Mar 1 22:26:40 EST 2020
Wait til you retire, it gets busier.
On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 9:57 PM Himes, Terry (US 397C) <
terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> I don’t’ and it is killing me. I love my Pantera. I love my guitar, and I
> love space.
>
> So much to do and so little time. You guys know what I mean. Life is too
> short!!!
>
>
>
>
>
> *"**A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,*
>
> * stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!**"*
>
>
>
> *Terry W. Himes *
>
> *JPL** Jet Propulsion Laboratory*
>
> *Deep Space Exploration – Mission Operations*
>
>
>
> *Dawn Spacecraft Team*
>
> *Juno Systems & Software Team*
>
> *TGO Sequence Lead *
>
> *MEX Sequence Lead*
>
> *Odyssey Sequence Team*
>
> *Spitzer Space Telescope Data Team*
>
>
>
> Phone: (818) 393-6261
>
> Cell: (818) 653-8213
>
> *thimes at jpl.nasa.gov <thimes at jpl.nasa.gov>*
>
> [image: signature_117325739]
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Jeff Detrich <jjdetrich at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Saturday, February 29, 2020 at 3:11 PM
> *To: *Terry Himes <terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>
> *Cc: *Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com>,
> DeTomaso Mail List <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, Garth Rodericks <
> garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [DeTomaso] [EXTERNAL] Re: Seatbelts
>
>
>
> Dawn Spacecraft Team
> Juno Systems & Software Team
> TGO Sequence Lead
> MEX Sequence Lead
> Odyssey Sequence Team
> Spitzer Space Telescope Data Team
>
>
>
> Terry, how do have time for cars! Looks like a 6 beer story.
>
>
>
> Jeff
>
> 6559
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 11:09 AM Himes, Terry (US 397C) via DeTomaso <
> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
> I had the same type of accident. Only it was in my Porsche 944. It had
> similar seat-belt
> configuration. I rolled 3 times over an embankment and landed wheels
> down. Totally
> crushed the car. Lots of head cuts due to flying glass. Black & Blue where
> the seatbelt
> and shoulder harness held me in. This happened in 1998, just north of
> Rosarito, Mexico.
> You can imagine what happened after the car came to rest and the Federales
> showed up.
>
> Definitely a 3 beer story. I should write a book. ;-/
>
> Terry
>
>
>
> "A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
> stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
>
> Terry W. Himes
> JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
> Deep Space Exploration – Mission Operations
>
> Dawn Spacecraft Team
> Juno Systems & Software Team
> TGO Sequence Lead
> MEX Sequence Lead
> Odyssey Sequence Team
> Spitzer Space Telescope Data Team
>
> Phone: (818) 393-6261
> Cell: (818) 653-8213
> thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
>
>
>
> On 2/28/20, 8:59 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso" <
> detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
> My recollection is the force of the tumbling threw his body sideways
> to the right, bending him over the center console which broke his ribs and
> punctured his right lung. But I believe the belt held?
>
> Art Stephens is his name. He almost immediately bought another
> Pantera, but I haven’t seen nor heard from him in years?
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Feb 28, 2020, at 08:53, Ken Green via DeTomaso <
> detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> >
> > My recollection that the driver said the shoulder strap released
> > (broke?) and did not hold him erect, which may have saved him.
> > Ken
> >
> > On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 10:39:31 PM PST, Garth Rodericks
> via
> > DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> > The "day before pics" are from Concorso, but they're not the day
> > before. The accident occurred following the Fun Rally in Las
> Vegas.
> > But, you can see what a beautiful car it was.
> > On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 04:56:44 PM PST, Garth Rodericks
> > <[1]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Attached are few couple pics of "hearsay 1" - a couple from the
> day
> > before at Concorso I believe, then the day after... You'd never
> know
> > it's the same car.
> > Although I heard it reported that the section of highway had some
> > rolling dips so to speak, which would unload the suspension;
> there
> > was
> > also a cross-wind, so the car got blown right off the road when
> the
> > suspension unloaded at the super-illegal speeds.
> > The owner was quite fortunate. Injuries were more than a broken
> > wrist
> > and concussion, but not what you would expect after seeing the
> car.
> > Arguably, he would not have survived if he had a 4- or 5-point
> race
> > harness since the car had no roll-bar or cage. The stock 3-point
> > harness allowed his body to get pushed over to the right as the
> roof
> > was collapsed onto the seatback.
> > Something to think about before putting racing harnesses in car
> > that's
> > not equipped with a cage.
> > ---- original message ----
> > Glad to see Steve and Julian's comments on the stock 3-point,
> which I
> > prefer for
> > our mostly- street use. I note that in the serious crashes I've
> heard
> > about, th
> > e stock system protects well. Sure- it's possible to get killed but
> > this apparen
> > tly doesn't happen often.
> > Hear-say #1: A few years ago, a So-Cal owner (apparently) blew a
> tire
> > at a verif
> > ied-by-GPS 187mph on a deserted Nevada highway while 'testing' a
> new
> > high-horse
> > engine. The car rolled & somersaulted end-over end several times.
> Front
> > of the r
> > oof was bent almost level with the hood while the rear half- with
> him
> > inside- wa
> > s at almost stock height. Speedo was torn out of the badly damaged
> > dashboard. He
> > got a broken wrist & slight concussion. Stock belts.
> > Hear-say #2 happened on a convoy to 'Vegas; the last car in the
> group
> > passing a
> > pickup on a 2-lane CA country road did "something" that caused the
> car
> > to go off
> > the road and barrel-rolled, completely clearing a std barbed wire
> fence
> > to land
> > wheels-up in a field. Driver & passenger were reportedly shaken but
> > unhurt. Sto
> > ck belts.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Steve Lisa <[1]stevelisa at patentit.com>
> > To: Julian Kift <[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> > Cc; Detomaso List <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> > Sent: Thu, Feb 27, 2020 8:37 am
> > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Seatbelts
> > My two cents:A Julian is absolutely right.A A
> > In addition to our racecars, we have severalA "track day"
> cars.A My
> > son is a technical inspector for NASA, and both he and I have
> > instructed.A 90% of theA "track day" people have their race
> > harnesses
> > installed incorrectly, and even my Dodge Viper ACR "track day"
> car
> > has
> > the cutoutsA in the seat and harness bar too high and it fails to
> > hold
> > you down in the seat.A They are so high that they render a HANS
> > device
> > useless.A So, even though the ACR comes from Dodge with both the
> > three
> > point system and full harnesses, we prefer the three pointA
> belts and
> > adjust them tightly if all we are doing is a track day.A A NASA
> > allows
> > you use the three point system during their TT competition
> events -
> > indeed mandates it if your harness bar is not designed strictly
> in
> > accordance with the rules.A
> > That said, a properly designed and placed harness bar with a
> > well-matched seat is safer.A But, you need to make sure it is
> > designed
> > correctly and worn properly.A A
> > Regards,A
> > Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
> > The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
> > Email: [4]SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
> > Direct: 480-442-0297
>
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> > This email is intended only for the recipient above and may
> contain
> > confidential and privileged information. If you received this
> email
> > in
> > error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me.
> > Thank
> > you.
> > On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:00 AM Julian Kift
> > <[2][5]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > A A Corey,
> > A A Be sure to get a 5 or 6 point harness and not settle fora
> 4
> > point that
> > A A doesn't have the submarine belt. Anchoring for a 5 point
> isn't
> > ideal in
> > A A the Pantera and much easier if you have a seat with the
> cut
> > out
> > for the
> > A A submarine belt.
> > A A I switched from 5 point back to a simple 3 point stock
> style
> > seat belt
> > A A last summer and really happy with my choice. My reasons
> were
> > 1.) I'm
> > A A long legged and with the 5 point harness properly
> adjusted I
> > could not
> > A A reach the ignition switch 2. It's a PITA if you take
> different
> > A A passengers frequently to constantly adjust the harness 3.)
> > Unless you
> > A A seat is relatively low back or has the cutouts for
> shoulder
> > belts the
> > A A harness bar does not place the shoulder straps in a great
> > position,
> > A A especially if they have to 'wrap' around the outside edge
> of
> > the seat.
> > A A 4.) Most everyday folks do not adjust a harness properly
> to be
> > any real
> > A A effect in an accident, it really does need to be cinched
> down
> > to the
> > A A point your body movements are restricted. 5). The harness
> bar
> > really
> > A A needs additional intermediate anchoring over the the two
> bolts
> > at the
> > A A ends to be safe.
> > A A I would assess your track use frequency and consider
> > installing
> > the
> > A A harness bar and appropriate seat for each track event and
> use
> > a
> > street
> > A A system for the street.
> > A A Julian
> > A A
> > A A > On Feb 26, 2020, at 11:42, Corey Price
> > <[9][6]coreyjprice at gmail.com> wrote:
> > A A >
> > A A > I don't have seatbelts currently. I have Recaro seats
> and I
> > plan to
> > A A take the Pantera to the track occasionally, but mostly
> drive
> > it
> > on the
> > A A street. I'm looking for seatbelt recommendations.
> > A A >
> > A A > Corey
> > A A > ______________________________________________
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-------------- next part --------------
Wait til you retire, it gets busier.A
On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 9:57 PM Himes, Terry (US 397C)
<[1]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
I donata and it is killing me.A I love my Pantera. I love my guitar,
and I love space.A
So much to do and so little time.A You guys know what I mean.A Life
is too short!!!
A
A
"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch aA plan,
A stupid enough to try itA and lucky enough to survive!"
A
Terry W. HimesA
JPLA Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Deep Space Exploration a Mission Operations
A
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Juno Systems & Software Team
TGO Sequence Lead
MEX Sequence Lead
Odyssey Sequence Team
Spitzer Space Telescope Data Team
A
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell:A A A A (818) 653-8213
[2]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
signature_117325739
A
A
From: Jeff Detrich <[3]jjdetrich at gmail.com>
Date: Saturday, February 29, 2020 at 3:11 PM
To: Terry Himes <[4]terry.himes at jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: Mike Drew <[5]MikeLDrew at aol.com>, Ken Green
<[6]kenn_green at yahoo.com>, DeTomaso Mail List
<[7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>, Garth Rodericks
<[8]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] [EXTERNAL] Re: Seatbelts
A
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Juno Systems & Software Team
TGO Sequence LeadA
MEX Sequence Lead
Odyssey Sequence Team
Spitzer Space Telescope Data TeamA
A
Terry, how do have time for cars! Looks like a 6 beer story.
A
Jeff
6559A
A
On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 11:09 AM Himes, Terry (US 397C) via DeTomaso
<[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
I had the same type of accident. Only it was in my Porsche 944. It
had similar seat-belt
configuration.A I rolled 3 times over an embankment and landed
wheels down. Totally
crushed the car. Lots of head cuts due to flying glass. Black & Blue
where the seatbelt
and shoulder harness held me in.A This happened in 1998, just north
of Rosarito, Mexico.
You can imagine what happened after the car came to rest and the
Federales showed up.
Definitely a 3 beer story.A I should write a book. ;-/
Terry
"A Purple Heart proves you were smart enough to hatch a plan,
A stupid enough to try it and lucky enough to survive!"
Terry W. Himes
JPL Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Deep Space Exploration a Mission Operations
Dawn Spacecraft Team
Juno Systems & Software Team
TGO Sequence Lead
MEX Sequence Lead
Odyssey Sequence Team
Spitzer Space Telescope Data Team
Phone: (818) 393-6261
Cell:A A A (818) 653-8213
[10]thimes at jpl.nasa.gov
On 2/28/20, 8:59 AM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Mike Drew via DeTomaso"
<[11]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
[12]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
A A My recollection is the force of the tumbling threw his body
sideways to the right, bending him over the center console which
broke his ribs and punctured his right lung. But I believe the belt
held?
A A Art Stephens is his name. He almost immediately bought another
Pantera, but I havenat seen nor heard from him in years?
A A Mike
A A Sent from my iPad
A A > On Feb 28, 2020, at 08:53, Ken Green via DeTomaso
<[13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
A A >
A A >A A My recollection that the driver said the shoulder strap
released
A A >A A (broke?) and did not hold him erect, which may have
saved him.
A A >A A Ken
A A >
A A >A A On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 10:39:31 PM PST, Garth
Rodericks via
A A >A A DeTomaso <[14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
A A >A A A The "day before pics" are from Concorso, but they're
not the day
A A >A A A before.A The accident occurred following the Fun
Rally in Las Vegas.
A A >A A A But, you can see what a beautiful car it was.
A A >A A A On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 04:56:44 PM PST,
Garth Rodericks
A A >A A A <[1][15]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com> wrote:
A A >A A A Attached are few couple pics of "hearsay 1" - a
couple from the day
A A >A A A before at Concorso I believe, then the day after...A
You'd never know
A A >A A A it's the same car.
A A >A A A Although I heard it reported that the section of
highway had some
A A >A A A rolling dips so to speak, which would unload the
suspension; there
A A >A A was
A A >A A A also a cross-wind, so the car got blown right off the
road when the
A A >A A A suspension unloaded at the super-illegal speeds.
A A >A A A The owner was quite fortunate.A Injuries were more
than a broken
A A >A A wrist
A A >A A A and concussion, but not what you would expect after
seeing the car.
A A >A A A Arguably, he would not have survived if he had a 4-
or 5-point race
A A >A A A harness since the car had no roll-bar or cage.A The
stock 3-point
A A >A A A harness allowed his body to get pushed over to the
right as the roof
A A >A A A was collapsed onto the seatback.
A A >A A A Something to think about before putting racing
harnesses in car
A A >A A that's
A A >A A A not equipped with a cage.
A A >A A A ---- original message ----
A A >A A Glad to see Steve and Julian's comments on the stock
3-point, which I
A A >A A prefer for
A A >A A our mostly- street use. I note that in the serious
crashes I've heard
A A >A A about, th
A A >A A e stock system protects well. Sure- it's possible to get
killed but
A A >A A this apparen
A A >A A tly doesn't happen often.
A A >A A Hear-say #1: A few years ago, a So-Cal owner
(apparently) blew a tire
A A >A A at a verif
A A >A A ied-by-GPS 187mph on a deserted Nevada highway while
'testing' a new
A A >A A high-horse
A A >A A engine. The car rolled & somersaulted end-over end
several times. Front
A A >A A of the r
A A >A A oof was bent almost level with the hood while the rear
half- with him
A A >A A inside- wa
A A >A A s at almost stock height. Speedo was torn out of the
badly damaged
A A >A A dashboard. He
A A >A A got a broken wrist & slight concussion. Stock belts.
A A >A A Hear-say #2 happened on a convoy to 'Vegas; the last car
in the group
A A >A A passing a
A A >A A pickup on a 2-lane CA country road did "something" that
caused the car
A A >A A to go off
A A >A A the road and barrel-rolled, completely clearing a std
barbed wire fence
A A >A A to land
A A >A A wheels-up in a field. Driver & passenger were reportedly
shaken but
A A >A A unhurt. Sto
A A >A A ck belts.
A A >A A -----Original Message-----
A A >A A From: Steve Lisa <[1]stevelisa at [16]patentit.com>
A A >A A To: Julian Kift <[2]julian_kift at [17]hotmail.com>
A A >A A Cc; Detomaso List <[3]detomaso at
[18]server.detomasolist.com>
A A >A A Sent: Thu, Feb 27, 2020 8:37 am
A A >A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Seatbelts
A A >A A A My two cents:AA Julian is absolutely right.A A
A A >A A A In addition to our racecars, we have severalA "track
day" cars.AA My
A A >A A A son is a technical inspector for NASA, and both he
and I have
A A >A A A instructed.AA 90% of theA "track day" people have
their race
A A >A A harnesses
A A >A A A installed incorrectly, and even my Dodge Viper ACR
"track day" car
A A >A A has
A A >A A A the cutoutsA in the seat and harness bar too high and
it fails to
A A >A A hold
A A >A A A you down in the seat.AA They are so high that they
render a HANS
A A >A A device
A A >A A A useless.AA So, even though the ACR comes from Dodge
with both the
A A >A A three
A A >A A A point system and full harnesses, we prefer the three
pointA belts and
A A >A A A adjust them tightly if all we are doing is a track
day.AA A NASA
A A >A A allows
A A >A A A you use the three point system during their TT
competition events -
A A >A A A indeed mandates it if your harness bar is not
designed strictly in
A A >A A A accordance with the rules.A
A A >A A A That said, a properly designed and placed harness bar
with a
A A >A A A well-matched seat is safer.AA But, you need to make
sure it is
A A >A A designed
A A >A A A correctly and worn properly.A A
A A >A A A Regards,A
A A >A A A Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
A A >A A A The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
A A >A A A Email: [4]SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
A A >A A A Direct: 480-442-0297
A A >A A A [1][19]www.PatentIt.com
A A >A A A Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656AA |A A F:A
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Scottsdale, AZ 85260
A A >A A A Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357AA |AA F:
312.896.5633AA |AA A: [21]55
A A >A A [22]E.
A A >A A A [23]Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
A A >A A A This email is intended only for the recipient above
and may contain
A A >A A A confidential and privileged information. If you
received this email
A A >A A in
A A >A A A error please destroy it and indicate such by return
email to me.
A A >A A Thank
A A >A A A you.
A A >A A A On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:00 AM Julian Kift
A A >A A A <[2][5]julian_kift at [24]hotmail.com> wrote:
A A >A A A A AA A Corey,
A A >A A A A AA A Be sure to get a 5 or 6 point harness and
not settle fora 4
A A >A A A A point that
A A >A A A A AA A doesn't have the submarine belt. Anchoring
for a 5 point isn't
A A >A A A A ideal in
A A >A A A A AA A the Pantera and much easier if you have a
seat with the cut
A A >A A out
A A >A A A A for the
A A >A A A A AA A submarine belt.
A A >A A A A AA A I switched from 5 point back to a simple 3
point stock style
A A >A A A A seat belt
A A >A A A A AA A last summer and really happy with my choice.
My reasons were
A A >A A A A 1.) I'm
A A >A A A A AA A long legged and with the 5 point harness
properly adjusted I
A A >A A A A could not
A A >A A A A AA A reach the ignition switch 2. It's a PITA if
you take different
A A >A A A A AA A passengers frequently to constantly adjust
the harness 3.)
A A >A A A A Unless you
A A >A A A A AA A seat is relatively low back or has the
cutouts for shoulder
A A >A A A A belts the
A A >A A A A AA A harness bar does not place the shoulder
straps in a great
A A >A A A A position,
A A >A A A A AA A especially if they have to 'wrap' around the
outside edge of
A A >A A A A the seat.
A A >A A A A AA A 4.) Most everyday folks do not adjust a
harness properly to be
A A >A A A A any real
A A >A A A A AA A effect in an accident, it really does need
to be cinched down
A A >A A A A to the
A A >A A A A AA A point your body movements are restricted.
5). The harness bar
A A >A A A A really
A A >A A A A AA A needs additional intermediate anchoring over
the the two bolts
A A >A A A A at the
A A >A A A A AA A ends to be safe.
A A >A A A A AA A I would assess your track use frequency and
consider
A A >A A installing
A A >A A A A the
A A >A A A A AA A harness bar and appropriate seat for each
track event and use
A A >A A a
A A >A A A A street
A A >A A A A AA A system for the street.
A A >A A A A AA A Julian
A A >A A A A AA A
A A >A A A A AA A > On Feb 26, 2020, at 11:42, Corey Price
A A >A A A A <[9][6]coreyjprice at [25]gmail.com> wrote:
A A >A A A A AA A >
A A >A A A A AA A > I don't have seatbelts currently. I have
Recaro seats and I
A A >A A A A plan to
A A >A A A A AA A take the Pantera to the track occasionally,
but mostly drive
A A >A A it
A A >A A A A on the
A A >A A A A AA A street. I'm looking for seatbelt
recommendations.
A A >A A A A AA A >
A A >A A A A AA A > Corey
A A >A A A A AA A >
______________________________________________
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