[DeTomaso] New series kicking off with a Pantera
Peter Havlik
peterhavlik at me.com
Tue Mar 3 14:03:19 EST 2020
I spoke with Kirk today to clear this up, and he said that the “50 state car” was not a Chrysler project and never went beyond the concept stage. In other words, none of the Shelby Panteras were a test mule for the “50 state car” program.
Kirk had an agreement in principle with Roush about them building a supercharged 425 hp Windsor that would be compliant with EPA regulations in every state including California, and he says he still has the paperwork on that. The concept was that the engines would be shipped to Italy and the cars assembled there, then imported and sold in the US by Shelby and Kirk. Kirk said "De Tomaso had given Shelby the West Coast”.
The whole project died when they lost their investors after the Black Monday stock market crash.
- Peter
> On Mar 3, 2020, at 7:59 AM, timepiecepr2 at yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Carroll personally told me a different story. He said that they never intended to really offer the car. They were trying to determine the layout (front/mid/rear engine) for the car that would be eventually become the Viper. He said they wanted the press to link Chrysler to high performance in the meantime and the entire Pantera program was a ruse for publicity, as well as the platform study.
>
> On Monday, March 2, 2020, 11:23:29 PM CST, Peter Havlik via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
>
> Oh yes! That’s right! I know that car well and have corresponded with Paul about it. It’s in the registry - I just forgot about it.
>
> Paul’s car is #9292, a 1983 GTS. If anyone is interested, he wrote the car up in POCA Profiles 2016 #1. This and all back issues are available on the POCA web site. The car was also featured in the May 1986 edition of Hot Rod Magazine (starting on page 79)
>
> It has a Chrysler 340 Wedge and was supposedly owned by Jim Henson at some point! Gale Banks Engineering and Carol Shelby built three twin-turbo 340 prototype blocks for Chrysler. Two of the three cars they were installed in were dismantled or destroyed. The motor in Paul’s car, the lone survivor, has Mopar aluminum heads and an intercooled Gale Banks twin turbo setup.
>
> - Peter
>
> > On Mar 2, 2020, at 8:31 PM, Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com <mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Peter,
> >
> > You are missing the car formerly in London and now in New Zealand, owned by Paul Domderwinkle. It’s a twin-turbo Dodge Shelby GTS. Paul bought it from Shelby back in the day (it could not be sold in the US). I published a great photo of it running in the rain in a Profiles many years ago. Chuck has it in the registry somewhere?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >> On Mar 2, 2020, at 19:59, Peter Havlik via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Jim:
> >>
> >> According to Kirk Evans, he imported a total of five Panteras for
> >> Shelby (all just body shells). For the early cars, the paperwork shows
> >> them as having been imported by Shelby directly, but Kirk says this was
> >> a product of confusion at the time as they were just learning as they
> >> went along.
> >>
> >> When I asked him about this back in 2008, Kirk told me he had been
> >> working with Shelby and Roush circa late 1987 to "do a 50 states car"
> >> with a 425 hp supercharged Roush engine. They had investors lined up
> >> who had committed a couple of million dollars to the project but then
> >> the October 19, 1987 "Black Monday stock market crash happened and
> >> killed the whole thing.
> >>
> >> My records show five wide body Panteras and one narrow body:
> >>
> >> #9281 GTS red with beige interior [auctioned off by Shelby's estate by
> >> Bonhams in June 2018]
> >>
> >> #9425 GT5-S red with beige interior [currently in New York]
> >>
> >> #9426 GT5-S Black on black [currently in Parkville, Missouri]
> >>
> >> #9428 GT5-S red with black interior [currently in Wheatton, Illinois]
> >>
> >> #9430 GT5-S white with black interior [Pat Mical's car in Tyngsboro,
> >> Massachusetts]
> >>
> >> #9461 GT5-S white on white [auctioned off by Shelby's estate by
> >> Bonhams in June 2018]
> >>
> >> - Peter
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 18:44:18 +0000 (UTC)
> >> From: Jim Wallace <[1]pantera_4220 at yahoo.com <mailto:pantera_4220 at yahoo.com>>
> >> To: Rob DuMoulin <[2]rob at dumoulins.net <mailto:rob at dumoulins.net>>, Detomaso List
> >> <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>
> >> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New series kicking off with a Pantera
> >> Message-ID: <[4]101461804.4183837.1583088258810 at mail.yahoo.com <mailto:101461804.4183837.1583088258810 at mail.yahoo.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >> Interesting....I heard the words there is only one.......I have seen a
> >> Carroll Shelby owned white GT5S at Pat Micals shop.??
> >> Is this the same car?
> >> Jim
> >> On Sunday, March 1, 2020, 08:40:41 AM EST, Rob DuMoulin
> >> <[5]rob at dumoulins.net <mailto:rob at dumoulins.net>> wrote:
> >> ? Exclusive: Watch Discovery's New DRIVEN Trailer Before Show Premieres
> >> ? On March 30 | Carscoops.A
> >> ?
> >> [1][6]https://www.carscoops.com/2020/02/exclusive-watch-discoverys-new- <https://www.carscoops.com/2020/02/exclusive-watch-discoverys-new->
> >> dri
> >> ? ven-trailer-before-show-premieres-on-march-30/A
> >> References
> >> ?
> >> 1. [7]https://www.carscoops.com/2020/02/exclusive-watch-discoverys-new- <https://www.carscoops.com/2020/02/exclusive-watch-discoverys-new->
> >> driven-trailer-before-show-premieres-on-march-30/
> >>
> >> References
> >>
> >> 1. mailto:pantera_4220 at yahoo.com <mailto:pantera_4220 at yahoo.com>
> >> 2. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net <mailto:rob at dumoulins.net>
> >> 3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> >> 4. mailto:101461804.4183837.1583088258810 at mail.yahoo.com <mailto:101461804.4183837.1583088258810 at mail.yahoo.com>
> >> 5. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net <mailto:rob at dumoulins.net>
> >> 6. https://www.carscoops.com/2020/02/exclusive-watch-discoverys-new-dri <https://www.carscoops.com/2020/02/exclusive-watch-discoverys-new-dri>
> >> 7. https://www.carscoops.com/2020/02/exclusive-watch-discoverys-new-driven-trailer-before-show-premieres-on-march-30/ <https://www.carscoops.com/2020/02/exclusive-watch-discoverys-new-driven-trailer-before-show-premieres-on-march-30/>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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-------------- next part --------------
I spoke with Kirk today to clear this up, and he said that the "50
state car" was not a Chrysler project and never went beyond the concept
stage. In other words, none of the Shelby Panteras were a test mule for
the "50 state car" program.
Kirk had an agreement in principle with Roush about them building a
supercharged 425 hp Windsor that would be compliant with EPA
regulations in every state including California, and he says he still
has the paperwork on that. The concept was that the engines would be
shipped to Italy and the cars assembled there, then imported and sold
in the US by Shelby and Kirk. Kirk said "De Tomaso had given Shelby the
West Coast".
The whole project died when they lost their investors after the Black
Monday stock market crash.
- Peter
On Mar 3, 2020, at 7:59 AM, [1]timepiecepr2 at yahoo.com wrote:
Carroll personally told me a different story. He said that they never
intended to really offer the car. They were trying to determine the
layout (front/mid/rear engine) for the car that would be eventually
become the Viper. He said they wanted the press to link Chrysler to
high performance in the meantime and the entire Pantera program was a
ruse for publicity, as well as the platform study.
On Monday, March 2, 2020, 11:23:29 PM CST, Peter Havlik via DeTomaso
<[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
Oh yes! That's right! I know that car well and have corresponded with
Paul about it. It's in the registry - I just forgot about it.
Paul's car is #9292, a 1983 GTS. If anyone is interested, he wrote the
car up in POCA Profiles 2016 #1. This and all back issues are
available on the POCA web site. The car was also featured in the May
1986 edition of Hot Rod Magazine (starting on page 79)
It has a Chrysler 340 Wedge and was supposedly owned by Jim Henson at
some point! Gale Banks Engineering and Carol Shelby built three
twin-turbo 340 prototype blocks for Chrysler. Two of the three cars
they were installed in were dismantled or destroyed. The motor in
Paul's car, the lone survivor, has Mopar aluminum heads and an
intercooled Gale Banks twin turbo setup.
- Peter
> On Mar 2, 2020, at 8:31 PM, Mike Drew <[3]MikeLDrew at aol.com> wrote:
>
> Peter,
>
> You are missing the car formerly in London and now in New Zealand,
owned by Paul Domderwinkle. It's a twin-turbo Dodge Shelby GTS. Paul
bought it from Shelby back in the day (it could not be sold in the
US). I published a great photo of it running in the rain in a Profiles
many years ago. Chuck has it in the registry somewhere?
>
> Mike
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Mar 2, 2020, at 19:59, Peter Havlik via DeTomaso
<[4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>
>> Jim:
>>
>> According to Kirk Evans, he imported a total of five Panteras for
>> Shelby (all just body shells). For the early cars, the paperwork
shows
>> them as having been imported by Shelby directly, but Kirk says this
was
>> a product of confusion at the time as they were just learning as
they
>> went along.
>>
>> When I asked him about this back in 2008, Kirk told me he had been
>> working with Shelby and Roush circa late 1987 to "do a 50 states
car"
>> with a 425 hp supercharged Roush engine. They had investors lined
up
>> who had committed a couple of million dollars to the project but
then
>> the October 19, 1987 "Black Monday stock market crash happened and
>> killed the whole thing.
>>
>> My records show five wide body Panteras and one narrow body:
>>
>> #9281 GTS red with beige interior [auctioned off by Shelby's estate
by
>> Bonhams in June 2018]
>>
>> #9425 GT5-S red with beige interior [currently in New York]
>>
>> #9426 GT5-S Black on black [currently in Parkville, Missouri]
>>
>> #9428 GT5-S red with black interior [currently in Wheatton,
Illinois]
>>
>> #9430 GT5-S white with black interior [Pat Mical's car in
Tyngsboro,
>> Massachusetts]
>>
>> #9461 GT5-S white on white [auctioned off by Shelby's estate by
>> Bonhams in June 2018]
>>
>> - Peter
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 18:44:18 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: Jim Wallace <[1][5]pantera_4220 at yahoo.com>
>> To: Rob DuMoulin <[2][6]rob at dumoulins.net>, Detomaso List
>> <[3][7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New series kicking off with a Pantera
>> Message-ID: <[4][8]101461804.4183837.1583088258810 at mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> Interesting....I heard the words there is only one.......I have
seen a
>> Carroll Shelby owned white GT5S at Pat Micals shop.??
>> Is this the same car?
>> Jim
>> On Sunday, March 1, 2020, 08:40:41 AM EST, Rob DuMoulin
>> <[5][9]rob at dumoulins.net> wrote:
>> ? Exclusive: Watch Discovery's New DRIVEN Trailer Before Show
Premieres
>> ? On March 30 | Carscoops.A
>> ?
>>
[1][6][10]https://www.carscoops.com/2020/02/exclusive-watch-discoverys-
new-
>> dri
>> ? ven-trailer-before-show-premieres-on-march-30/A
>> References
>> ?
>> 1.
[7][11]https://www.carscoops.com/2020/02/exclusive-watch-discoverys-new
-
>> driven-trailer-before-show-premieres-on-march-30/
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:[12]pantera_4220 at yahoo.com
>> 2. mailto:[13]rob at dumoulins.net
>> 3. mailto:[14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> 4. mailto:[15]101461804.4183837.1583088258810 at mail.yahoo.com
>> 5. mailto:[16]rob at dumoulins.net
>> 6.
[17]https://www.carscoops.com/2020/02/exclusive-watch-discoverys-new-dr
i
>> 7.
[18]https://www.carscoops.com/2020/02/exclusive-watch-discoverys-new-dr
iven-trailer-before-show-premieres-on-march-30/
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> [19]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>> [20]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.) use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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[22]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:timepiecepr2 at yahoo.com
2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
3. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. mailto:pantera_4220 at yahoo.com
6. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. mailto:101461804.4183837.1583088258810 at mail.yahoo.com
9. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
10. https://www.carscoops.com/2020/02/exclusive-watch-discoverys-new-
11. https://www.carscoops.com/2020/02/exclusive-watch-discoverys-new-
12. mailto:pantera_4220 at yahoo.com
13. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
14. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
15. mailto:101461804.4183837.1583088258810 at mail.yahoo.com
16. mailto:rob at dumoulins.net
17. https://www.carscoops.com/2020/02/exclusive-watch-discoverys-new-dri
18. https://www.carscoops.com/2020/02/exclusive-watch-discoverys-new-driven-trailer-before-show-premieres-on-march-30/
19. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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