[DeTomaso] Seatbelts
Steve Lisa
stevelisa at patentit.com
Fri Feb 28 13:14:28 EST 2020
We had a Ford Excursion as a chase/tow vehicle when we ran the Baja 1000.
There is no doubt that it is was stout. It had big steel bumpers, a
welded-on roof rack, etc. It got in a wreck with a semi on the Mexico
highway, and was completely flattened. I mean totally flat to the
dashboard line. Luckily, the driver was able to flatten himself across the
center console during the process and got away with a cut from flying
glass. In my experience, you only want race harnesses if you have a an
adequate roll-over bar/cage to protect you.
Regards,
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
*The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC*
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.com
Direct: 480-442-0297
www.PatentIt.com <http://www.patentit.com/>
*Scottsdale Office* | *P*: 480.535.6656 | *F:* 480.535.6628 | *A:* 7689
East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
*Chicago Office *|* P:* 312.752.4357 | *F:* 312.896.5633 | *A:* 55 E.
Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank you.
On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 9:53 AM Ken Green via DeTomaso <
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> My recollection that the driver said the shoulder strap released
> (broke?) and did not hold him erect, which may have saved him.
> Ken
>
> On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 10:39:31 PM PST, Garth Rodericks via
> DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> The "day before pics" are from Concorso, but they're not the day
> before. The accident occurred following the Fun Rally in Las Vegas.
> But, you can see what a beautiful car it was.
> On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 04:56:44 PM PST, Garth Rodericks
> <[1]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Attached are few couple pics of "hearsay 1" - a couple from the day
> before at Concorso I believe, then the day after... You'd never know
> it's the same car.
> Although I heard it reported that the section of highway had some
> rolling dips so to speak, which would unload the suspension; there
> was
> also a cross-wind, so the car got blown right off the road when the
> suspension unloaded at the super-illegal speeds.
> The owner was quite fortunate. Injuries were more than a broken
> wrist
> and concussion, but not what you would expect after seeing the car.
> Arguably, he would not have survived if he had a 4- or 5-point race
> harness since the car had no roll-bar or cage. The stock 3-point
> harness allowed his body to get pushed over to the right as the roof
> was collapsed onto the seatback.
> Something to think about before putting racing harnesses in car
> that's
> not equipped with a cage.
> ---- original message ----
> Glad to see Steve and Julian's comments on the stock 3-point, which I
> prefer for
> our mostly- street use. I note that in the serious crashes I've heard
> about, th
> e stock system protects well. Sure- it's possible to get killed but
> this apparen
> tly doesn't happen often.
> Hear-say #1: A few years ago, a So-Cal owner (apparently) blew a tire
> at a verif
> ied-by-GPS 187mph on a deserted Nevada highway while 'testing' a new
> high-horse
> engine. The car rolled & somersaulted end-over end several times. Front
> of the r
> oof was bent almost level with the hood while the rear half- with him
> inside- wa
> s at almost stock height. Speedo was torn out of the badly damaged
> dashboard. He
> got a broken wrist & slight concussion. Stock belts.
> Hear-say #2 happened on a convoy to 'Vegas; the last car in the group
> passing a
> pickup on a 2-lane CA country road did "something" that caused the car
> to go off
> the road and barrel-rolled, completely clearing a std barbed wire fence
> to land
> wheels-up in a field. Driver & passenger were reportedly shaken but
> unhurt. Sto
> ck belts.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Lisa <[1]stevelisa at patentit.com>
> To: Julian Kift <[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> Cc; Detomaso List <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Thu, Feb 27, 2020 8:37 am
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Seatbelts
> My two cents:A Julian is absolutely right.A A
> In addition to our racecars, we have severalA "track day" cars.A My
> son is a technical inspector for NASA, and both he and I have
> instructed.A 90% of theA "track day" people have their race
> harnesses
> installed incorrectly, and even my Dodge Viper ACR "track day" car
> has
> the cutoutsA in the seat and harness bar too high and it fails to
> hold
> you down in the seat.A They are so high that they render a HANS
> device
> useless.A So, even though the ACR comes from Dodge with both the
> three
> point system and full harnesses, we prefer the three pointA belts and
> adjust them tightly if all we are doing is a track day.A A NASA
> allows
> you use the three point system during their TT competition events -
> indeed mandates it if your harness bar is not designed strictly in
> accordance with the rules.A
> That said, a properly designed and placed harness bar with a
> well-matched seat is safer.A But, you need to make sure it is
> designed
> correctly and worn properly.A A
> Regards,A
> Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
> The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
> Email: [4]SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
> Direct: 480-442-0297
> [1]www.PatentIt.com
> Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
> |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
> Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A |A F: 312.896.5633A |A A: 55
> E.
> Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
> This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
> confidential and privileged information. If you received this email
> in
> error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me.
> Thank
> you.
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:00 AM Julian Kift
> <[2][5]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
> A A Corey,
> A A Be sure to get a 5 or 6 point harness and not settle fora 4
> point that
> A A doesn't have the submarine belt. Anchoring for a 5 point isn't
> ideal in
> A A the Pantera and much easier if you have a seat with the cut
> out
> for the
> A A submarine belt.
> A A I switched from 5 point back to a simple 3 point stock style
> seat belt
> A A last summer and really happy with my choice. My reasons were
> 1.) I'm
> A A long legged and with the 5 point harness properly adjusted I
> could not
> A A reach the ignition switch 2. It's a PITA if you take different
> A A passengers frequently to constantly adjust the harness 3.)
> Unless you
> A A seat is relatively low back or has the cutouts for shoulder
> belts the
> A A harness bar does not place the shoulder straps in a great
> position,
> A A especially if they have to 'wrap' around the outside edge of
> the seat.
> A A 4.) Most everyday folks do not adjust a harness properly to be
> any real
> A A effect in an accident, it really does need to be cinched down
> to the
> A A point your body movements are restricted. 5). The harness bar
> really
> A A needs additional intermediate anchoring over the the two bolts
> at the
> A A ends to be safe.
> A A I would assess your track use frequency and consider
> installing
> the
> A A harness bar and appropriate seat for each track event and use
> a
> street
> A A system for the street.
> A A Julian
> A A
> A A > On Feb 26, 2020, at 11:42, Corey Price
> <[9][6]coreyjprice at gmail.com> wrote:
> A A >
> A A > I don't have seatbelts currently. I have Recaro seats and I
> plan to
> A A take the Pantera to the track occasionally, but mostly drive
> it
> on the
> A A street. I'm looking for seatbelt recommendations.
> A A >
> A A > Corey
> A A > ______________________________________________
> DeTomaso Info Page
> References
> Visible links
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> They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive or approve
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-------------- next part --------------
We had a Ford Excursion as a chase/tow vehicle when we ran the Baja
1000.A There is no doubt that it is was stout.A It had big steel
bumpers, a welded-on roof rack, etc.A It got in a wreck with a semi on
the Mexico highway, and was completely flattened.A I mean totally flat
to the dashboard line.A Luckily, the driver was able to flatten
himself across the center console during the process and got away with
aA cut from flying glass.A In my experience, you only want race
harnesses if you have a an adequate roll-over bar/cage to protect
you.A A
Regards,A
Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
Email: SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
Direct: 480-442-0297
[1]www.PatentIt.com
Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
|A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A |A F: 312.896.5633A |A A: 55 E.
Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you received this email in
error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me. Thank
you.
On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 9:53 AM Ken Green via DeTomaso
<[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
A A My recollection that the driver said the shoulder strap
released
A A (broke?) and did not hold him erect, which may have saved him.
A A Ken
A A On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 10:39:31 PM PST, Garth
Rodericks via
A A DeTomaso <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
A A A The "day before pics" are from Concorso, but they're not the
day
A A A before.A The accident occurred following the Fun Rally in
Las Vegas.
A A A But, you can see what a beautiful car it was.
A A A On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 04:56:44 PM PST, Garth
Rodericks
A A A <[1][4]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com> wrote:
A A A Attached are few couple pics of "hearsay 1" - a couple from
the day
A A A before at Concorso I believe, then the day after...A You'd
never know
A A A it's the same car.
A A A Although I heard it reported that the section of highway had
some
A A A rolling dips so to speak, which would unload the suspension;
there
A A was
A A A also a cross-wind, so the car got blown right off the road
when the
A A A suspension unloaded at the super-illegal speeds.
A A A The owner was quite fortunate.A Injuries were more than a
broken
A A wrist
A A A and concussion, but not what you would expect after seeing
the car.
A A A Arguably, he would not have survived if he had a 4- or
5-point race
A A A harness since the car had no roll-bar or cage.A The stock
3-point
A A A harness allowed his body to get pushed over to the right as
the roof
A A A was collapsed onto the seatback.
A A A Something to think about before putting racing harnesses in
car
A A that's
A A A not equipped with a cage.
A A A ---- original message ----
A A Glad to see Steve and Julian's comments on the stock 3-point,
which I
A A prefer for
A A our mostly- street use. I note that in the serious crashes I've
heard
A A about, th
A A e stock system protects well. Sure- it's possible to get killed
but
A A this apparen
A A tly doesn't happen often.
A A Hear-say #1: A few years ago, a So-Cal owner (apparently) blew
a tire
A A at a verif
A A ied-by-GPS 187mph on a deserted Nevada highway while 'testing'
a new
A A high-horse
A A engine. The car rolled & somersaulted end-over end several
times. Front
A A of the r
A A oof was bent almost level with the hood while the rear half-
with him
A A inside- wa
A A s at almost stock height. Speedo was torn out of the badly
damaged
A A dashboard. He
A A got a broken wrist & slight concussion. Stock belts.
A A Hear-say #2 happened on a convoy to 'Vegas; the last car in the
group
A A passing a
A A pickup on a 2-lane CA country road did "something" that caused
the car
A A to go off
A A the road and barrel-rolled, completely clearing a std barbed
wire fence
A A to land
A A wheels-up in a field. Driver & passenger were reportedly shaken
but
A A unhurt. Sto
A A ck belts.
A A -----Original Message-----
A A From: Steve Lisa <[1]stevelisa at [5]patentit.com>
A A To: Julian Kift <[2]julian_kift at [6]hotmail.com>
A A Cc; Detomaso List <[3]detomaso at [7]server.detomasolist.com>
A A Sent: Thu, Feb 27, 2020 8:37 am
A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Seatbelts
A A A My two cents:AA Julian is absolutely right.A A
A A A In addition to our racecars, we have severalA "track day"
cars.AA My
A A A son is a technical inspector for NASA, and both he and I
have
A A A instructed.AA 90% of theA "track day" people have their
race
A A harnesses
A A A installed incorrectly, and even my Dodge Viper ACR "track
day" car
A A has
A A A the cutoutsA in the seat and harness bar too high and it
fails to
A A hold
A A A you down in the seat.AA They are so high that they render a
HANS
A A device
A A A useless.AA So, even though the ACR comes from Dodge with
both the
A A three
A A A point system and full harnesses, we prefer the three pointA
belts and
A A A adjust them tightly if all we are doing is a track day.AA A
NASA
A A allows
A A A you use the three point system during their TT competition
events -
A A A indeed mandates it if your harness bar is not designed
strictly in
A A A accordance with the rules.A
A A A That said, a properly designed and placed harness bar with a
A A A well-matched seat is safer.AA But, you need to make sure it
is
A A designed
A A A correctly and worn properly.A A
A A A Regards,A
A A A Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
A A A The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
A A A Email: [4]SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
A A A Direct: 480-442-0297
A A A [1][8]www.PatentIt.com
A A A Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656AA |A A F:A
480.535.6628A
A A A |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ
85260
A A A Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357AA |AA F:
312.896.5633AA |AA A: 55
A A E.
A A A Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
A A A This email is intended only for the recipient above and may
contain
A A A confidential and privileged information. If you received
this email
A A in
A A A error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to
me.
A A Thank
A A A you.
A A A On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:00 AM Julian Kift
A A A <[2][5]julian_kift at [9]hotmail.com> wrote:
A A A A AA A Corey,
A A A A AA A Be sure to get a 5 or 6 point harness and not
settle fora 4
A A A A point that
A A A A AA A doesn't have the submarine belt. Anchoring for a 5
point isn't
A A A A ideal in
A A A A AA A the Pantera and much easier if you have a seat with
the cut
A A out
A A A A for the
A A A A AA A submarine belt.
A A A A AA A I switched from 5 point back to a simple 3 point
stock style
A A A A seat belt
A A A A AA A last summer and really happy with my choice. My
reasons were
A A A A 1.) I'm
A A A A AA A long legged and with the 5 point harness properly
adjusted I
A A A A could not
A A A A AA A reach the ignition switch 2. It's a PITA if you
take different
A A A A AA A passengers frequently to constantly adjust the
harness 3.)
A A A A Unless you
A A A A AA A seat is relatively low back or has the cutouts for
shoulder
A A A A belts the
A A A A AA A harness bar does not place the shoulder straps in a
great
A A A A position,
A A A A AA A especially if they have to 'wrap' around the
outside edge of
A A A A the seat.
A A A A AA A 4.) Most everyday folks do not adjust a harness
properly to be
A A A A any real
A A A A AA A effect in an accident, it really does need to be
cinched down
A A A A to the
A A A A AA A point your body movements are restricted. 5). The
harness bar
A A A A really
A A A A AA A needs additional intermediate anchoring over the
the two bolts
A A A A at the
A A A A AA A ends to be safe.
A A A A AA A I would assess your track use frequency and
consider
A A installing
A A A A the
A A A A AA A harness bar and appropriate seat for each track
event and use
A A a
A A A A street
A A A A AA A system for the street.
A A A A AA A Julian
A A A A AA A
A A A A AA A > On Feb 26, 2020, at 11:42, Corey Price
A A A A <[9][6]coreyjprice at [10]gmail.com> wrote:
A A A A AA A >
A A A A AA A > I don't have seatbelts currently. I have Recaro
seats and I
A A A A plan to
A A A A AA A take the Pantera to the track occasionally, but
mostly drive
A A it
A A A A on the
A A A A AA A street. I'm looking for seatbelt recommendations.
A A A A AA A >
A A A A AA A > Corey
A A A A AA A > ______________________________________________
A A DeTomaso Info Page
A A References
A A A Visible links
A A A 1.
[2][11]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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