[DeTomaso] Seatbelts
Ken Green
kenn_green at yahoo.com
Fri Feb 28 14:18:08 EST 2020
Last time I talked to Art he was headed to Colorado to be a ski bum.
On Friday, February 28, 2020, 8:59:05 AM PST, Mike Drew via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
My recollection is the force of the tumbling threw his body sideways to the right, bending him over the center console which broke his ribs and punctured his right lung. But I believe the belt held?
Art Stephens is his name. He almost immediately bought another Pantera, but I haven’t seen nor heard from him in years?
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 28, 2020, at 08:53, Ken Green via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
> My recollection that the driver said the shoulder strap released
> (broke?) and did not hold him erect, which may have saved him.
> Ken
>
> On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 10:39:31 PM PST, Garth Rodericks via
> DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> The "day before pics" are from Concorso, but they're not the day
> before. The accident occurred following the Fun Rally in Las Vegas.
> But, you can see what a beautiful car it was.
> On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 04:56:44 PM PST, Garth Rodericks
> <[1]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Attached are few couple pics of "hearsay 1" - a couple from the day
> before at Concorso I believe, then the day after... You'd never know
> it's the same car.
> Although I heard it reported that the section of highway had some
> rolling dips so to speak, which would unload the suspension; there
> was
> also a cross-wind, so the car got blown right off the road when the
> suspension unloaded at the super-illegal speeds.
> The owner was quite fortunate. Injuries were more than a broken
> wrist
> and concussion, but not what you would expect after seeing the car.
> Arguably, he would not have survived if he had a 4- or 5-point race
> harness since the car had no roll-bar or cage. The stock 3-point
> harness allowed his body to get pushed over to the right as the roof
> was collapsed onto the seatback.
> Something to think about before putting racing harnesses in car
> that's
> not equipped with a cage.
> ---- original message ----
> Glad to see Steve and Julian's comments on the stock 3-point, which I
> prefer for
> our mostly- street use. I note that in the serious crashes I've heard
> about, th
> e stock system protects well. Sure- it's possible to get killed but
> this apparen
> tly doesn't happen often.
> Hear-say #1: A few years ago, a So-Cal owner (apparently) blew a tire
> at a verif
> ied-by-GPS 187mph on a deserted Nevada highway while 'testing' a new
> high-horse
> engine. The car rolled & somersaulted end-over end several times. Front
> of the r
> oof was bent almost level with the hood while the rear half- with him
> inside- wa
> s at almost stock height. Speedo was torn out of the badly damaged
> dashboard. He
> got a broken wrist & slight concussion. Stock belts.
> Hear-say #2 happened on a convoy to 'Vegas; the last car in the group
> passing a
> pickup on a 2-lane CA country road did "something" that caused the car
> to go off
> the road and barrel-rolled, completely clearing a std barbed wire fence
> to land
> wheels-up in a field. Driver & passenger were reportedly shaken but
> unhurt. Sto
> ck belts.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Lisa <[1]stevelisa at patentit.com>
> To: Julian Kift <[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> Cc; Detomaso List <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Thu, Feb 27, 2020 8:37 am
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Seatbelts
> My two cents:A Julian is absolutely right.A A
> In addition to our racecars, we have severalA "track day" cars.A My
> son is a technical inspector for NASA, and both he and I have
> instructed.A 90% of theA "track day" people have their race
> harnesses
> installed incorrectly, and even my Dodge Viper ACR "track day" car
> has
> the cutoutsA in the seat and harness bar too high and it fails to
> hold
> you down in the seat.A They are so high that they render a HANS
> device
> useless.A So, even though the ACR comes from Dodge with both the
> three
> point system and full harnesses, we prefer the three pointA belts and
> adjust them tightly if all we are doing is a track day.A A NASA
> allows
> you use the three point system during their TT competition events -
> indeed mandates it if your harness bar is not designed strictly in
> accordance with the rules.A
> That said, a properly designed and placed harness bar with a
> well-matched seat is safer.A But, you need to make sure it is
> designed
> correctly and worn properly.A A
> Regards,A
> Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
> The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
> Email: [4]SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
> Direct: 480-442-0297
> [1]www.PatentIt.com
> Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
> |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
> Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A |A F: 312.896.5633A |A A: 55
> E.
> Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
> This email is intended only for the recipient above and may contain
> confidential and privileged information. If you received this email
> in
> error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me.
> Thank
> you.
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:00 AM Julian Kift
> <[2][5]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
> A A Corey,
> A A Be sure to get a 5 or 6 point harness and not settle fora 4
> point that
> A A doesn't have the submarine belt. Anchoring for a 5 point isn't
> ideal in
> A A the Pantera and much easier if you have a seat with the cut
> out
> for the
> A A submarine belt.
> A A I switched from 5 point back to a simple 3 point stock style
> seat belt
> A A last summer and really happy with my choice. My reasons were
> 1.) I'm
> A A long legged and with the 5 point harness properly adjusted I
> could not
> A A reach the ignition switch 2. It's a PITA if you take different
> A A passengers frequently to constantly adjust the harness 3.)
> Unless you
> A A seat is relatively low back or has the cutouts for shoulder
> belts the
> A A harness bar does not place the shoulder straps in a great
> position,
> A A especially if they have to 'wrap' around the outside edge of
> the seat.
> A A 4.) Most everyday folks do not adjust a harness properly to be
> any real
> A A effect in an accident, it really does need to be cinched down
> to the
> A A point your body movements are restricted. 5). The harness bar
> really
> A A needs additional intermediate anchoring over the the two bolts
> at the
> A A ends to be safe.
> A A I would assess your track use frequency and consider
> installing
> the
> A A harness bar and appropriate seat for each track event and use
> a
> street
> A A system for the street.
> A A Julian
> A A
> A A > On Feb 26, 2020, at 11:42, Corey Price
> <[9][6]coreyjprice at gmail.com> wrote:
> A A >
> A A > I don't have seatbelts currently. I have Recaro seats and I
> plan to
> A A take the Pantera to the track occasionally, but mostly drive
> it
> on the
> A A street. I'm looking for seatbelt recommendations.
> A A >
> A A > Corey
> A A > ______________________________________________
> DeTomaso Info Page
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-------------- next part --------------
Last time I talked to Art he was headed to Colorado to be a ski bum.
On Friday, February 28, 2020, 8:59:05 AM PST, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
My recollection is the force of the tumbling threw his body sideways to
the right, bending him over the center console which broke his ribs and
punctured his right lung. But I believe the belt held?
Art Stephens is his name. He almost immediately bought another Pantera,
but I havenat seen nor heard from him in years?
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 28, 2020, at 08:53, Ken Green via DeTomaso
<[1]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>
> i>>? My recollection that the driver said the shoulder strap
released
> (broke?) and did not hold him erect, which may have saved him.
> Ken
>
> On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 10:39:31 PM PST, Garth Rodericks via
> DeTomaso <[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> The "day before pics" are from Concorso, but they're not the day
> before. The accident occurred following the Fun Rally in Las
Vegas.
> But, you can see what a beautiful car it was.
> On Thursday, February 27, 2020, 04:56:44 PM PST, Garth Rodericks
> <[1][3]garth_rodericks at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Attached are few couple pics of "hearsay 1" - a couple from the
day
> before at Concorso I believe, then the day after... You'd never
know
> it's the same car.
> Although I heard it reported that the section of highway had some
> rolling dips so to speak, which would unload the suspension; there
> was
> also a cross-wind, so the car got blown right off the road when
the
> suspension unloaded at the super-illegal speeds.
> The owner was quite fortunate. Injuries were more than a broken
> wrist
> and concussion, but not what you would expect after seeing the
car.
> Arguably, he would not have survived if he had a 4- or 5-point
race
> harness since the car had no roll-bar or cage. The stock 3-point
> harness allowed his body to get pushed over to the right as the
roof
> was collapsed onto the seatback.
> Something to think about before putting racing harnesses in car
> that's
> not equipped with a cage.
> ---- original message ----
> Glad to see Steve and Julian's comments on the stock 3-point, which
I
> prefer for
> our mostly- street use. I note that in the serious crashes I've
heard
> about, th
> e stock system protects well. Sure- it's possible to get killed but
> this apparen
> tly doesn't happen often.
> Hear-say #1: A few years ago, a So-Cal owner (apparently) blew a
tire
> at a verif
> ied-by-GPS 187mph on a deserted Nevada highway while 'testing' a new
> high-horse
> engine. The car rolled & somersaulted end-over end several times.
Front
> of the r
> oof was bent almost level with the hood while the rear half- with
him
> inside- wa
> s at almost stock height. Speedo was torn out of the badly damaged
> dashboard. He
> got a broken wrist & slight concussion. Stock belts.
> Hear-say #2 happened on a convoy to 'Vegas; the last car in the
group
> passing a
> pickup on a 2-lane CA country road did "something" that caused the
car
> to go off
> the road and barrel-rolled, completely clearing a std barbed wire
fence
> to land
> wheels-up in a field. Driver & passenger were reportedly shaken but
> unhurt. Sto
> ck belts.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Lisa <[1]stevelisa at patentit.com>
> To: Julian Kift <[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> Cc; Detomaso List <[3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Thu, Feb 27, 2020 8:37 am
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Seatbelts
> My two cents:A Julian is absolutely right.A A
> In addition to our racecars, we have severalA "track day" cars.A
My
> son is a technical inspector for NASA, and both he and I have
> instructed.A 90% of theA "track day" people have their race
> harnesses
> installed incorrectly, and even my Dodge Viper ACR "track day" car
> has
> the cutoutsA in the seat and harness bar too high and it fails to
> hold
> you down in the seat.A They are so high that they render a HANS
> device
> useless.A So, even though the ACR comes from Dodge with both the
> three
> point system and full harnesses, we prefer the three pointA belts
and
> adjust them tightly if all we are doing is a track day.A A NASA
> allows
> you use the three point system during their TT competition events
-
> indeed mandates it if your harness bar is not designed strictly in
> accordance with the rules.A
> That said, a properly designed and placed harness bar with a
> well-matched seat is safer.A But, you need to make sure it is
> designed
> correctly and worn properly.A A
> Regards,A
> Steven G. Lisa, Esq.
> The Law Offices of Lisa & Lesko, LLC
> Email: [4]SteveLisa at PatentIt.comA
> Direct: 480-442-0297
> [1]www.PatentIt.com
> Scottsdale OfficeA |A P:A 480.535.6656A |A A F:A 480.535.6628A
> |A A A:A 7689 East Paradise Lane, Suite 2, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
> Chicago OfficeA |A P: 312.752.4357A |A F: 312.896.5633A |A A:
55
> E.
> Monroe Street, Suite 3800, Chicago, IL 60603
> This email is intended only for the recipient above and may
contain
> confidential and privileged information. If you received this
email
> in
> error please destroy it and indicate such by return email to me.
> Thank
> you.
> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:00 AM Julian Kift
> <[2][5]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
> A A Corey,
> A A Be sure to get a 5 or 6 point harness and not settle fora 4
> point that
> A A doesn't have the submarine belt. Anchoring for a 5 point
isn't
> ideal in
> A A the Pantera and much easier if you have a seat with the cut
> out
> for the
> A A submarine belt.
> A A I switched from 5 point back to a simple 3 point stock
style
> seat belt
> A A last summer and really happy with my choice. My reasons
were
> 1.) I'm
> A A long legged and with the 5 point harness properly adjusted
I
> could not
> A A reach the ignition switch 2. It's a PITA if you take
different
> A A passengers frequently to constantly adjust the harness 3.)
> Unless you
> A A seat is relatively low back or has the cutouts for shoulder
> belts the
> A A harness bar does not place the shoulder straps in a great
> position,
> A A especially if they have to 'wrap' around the outside edge
of
> the seat.
> A A 4.) Most everyday folks do not adjust a harness properly to
be
> any real
> A A effect in an accident, it really does need to be cinched
down
> to the
> A A point your body movements are restricted. 5). The harness
bar
> really
> A A needs additional intermediate anchoring over the the two
bolts
> at the
> A A ends to be safe.
> A A I would assess your track use frequency and consider
> installing
> the
> A A harness bar and appropriate seat for each track event and
use
> a
> street
> A A system for the street.
> A A Julian
> A A
> A A > On Feb 26, 2020, at 11:42, Corey Price
> <[9][6]coreyjprice at gmail.com> wrote:
> A A >
> A A > I don't have seatbelts currently. I have Recaro seats and
I
> plan to
> A A take the Pantera to the track occasionally, but mostly
drive
> it
> on the
> A A street. I'm looking for seatbelt recommendations.
> A A >
> A A > Corey
> A A > ______________________________________________
> DeTomaso Info Page
> References
> Visible links
> 1. [2][4]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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