[DeTomaso] Metal particles in Transaxle
Wayne Boian
wayneboian at windstream.net
Tue Jun 25 00:22:54 EDT 2019
Thanks Larry for the reply.
The bottle that I used (see attached) said Axle Limited Slip 80W-90 API GL5.
The words “Hypoid” or “Hypoy C” is not mentioned any where on the bottle or the Product Data Sheet on Castrol’s website.
Based on that, the product should be OK to us, however my my comfort lever is not real high.
Is anyone else using this product?
What other products should I consider if the Red Line MT-85 is not available in my area?
From: Pantdino
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 6:27 PM
To: wayneboian at windstream.net ; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Metal particles in Transaxle
Wayne,
Here's my recollection of when I looked into this extensively:
Does the bottle of Castrol say GL-5, for hypoid differentials?
If so, you are damaging your ZF in using it. Hypoid gears require a different chemical makeup because of the great deal of sliding the gears do over each other. (Look up hypoid gears online.) There are no hypoid gears in a ZF transaxle.
The chemicals that make the hypoid gear oil able to sustain that sliding friction without breaking down are sulfur-based (hence the smell). These sulfur chemicals bind so strongly to the metal that softer metals (like brass) that when they come off, they take some of the metal with them. Hence the synchro rings are damaged.
The correct thing is to get a GL-4 oil like Red Line MT-85. If you find the limited slip clutches are binding too tightly and you get noise from the inside tire when you are starting out when turning, like at a stoplight, you can add a little bit of limited slip additive to make the oil a little more slippery. But if you add too much you'll make your synchro rings ineffective, so you have to add a little bit at a time until the grabbing problem is solved to your liking.
The upshot is that yes, you can use GL-5 oil in a ZF, but you'll be damaging your synchro rings and gears. Synchros require some friction between the rings to work. If the oil is too slippery, the spinning ring does not make the next one spin like it is supposed to, so the next gear is not brought up to speed. And ZF work is not cheap.
Sorry if something here is not right, but I'm pretty sure the conclusion is correct. Ferrari transaxles are basically the same in terms of design, and those guys are totally anal about this stuff.
Jim.
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Boian <wayneboian at windstream.net>
To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 24, 2019 8:32 am
Subject: [DeTomaso] Metal particles in Transaxle
I change the oil in the Transaxle last night and found metal particles
on the magnetic drain plug. See attached photo.
The car has maybe 3,500 to 4,000 miles since the fluid was last
changed. There was no other foreign material in the container used to
drain the fluid.
How mush sleep should I be loosing over the amount of metal particles
in the photo.
FWIW, I am using Castrol Limited Slip 80W-90 in the transaxle.
Thanks
Wayne
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Thanks Larry for the reply.
The bottle that I used (see attached) said Axle Limited Slip 80W-90 API
GL5.
The words aHypoida or aHypoy Ca is not mentioned any where on the
bottle or the Product Data Sheet on Castrolas website.
Based on that, the product should be OK to us, however my my comfort
lever is not real high.
Is anyone else using this product?
What other products should I consider if the Red Line MT-85 is not
available in my area?
From: [1]Pantdino
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 6:27 PM
To: [2]wayneboian at windstream.net ; [3]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Metal particles in Transaxle
Wayne,
Here's my recollection of when I looked into this extensively:
Does the bottle of Castrol say GL-5, for hypoid differentials?
If so, you are damaging your ZF in using it. Hypoid gears require a
different chemical makeup because of the great deal of sliding the
gears do over each other. (Look up hypoid gears online.) There are
no hypoid gears in a ZF transaxle.
The chemicals that make the hypoid gear oil able to sustain that
sliding friction without breaking down are sulfur-based (hence the
smell). These sulfur chemicals bind so strongly to the metal that
softer metals (like brass) that when they come off, they take some
of the metal with them. Hence the synchro rings are damaged.
The correct thing is to get a GL-4 oil like Red Line MT-85. If you
find the limited slip clutches are binding too tightly and you get
noise from the inside tire when you are starting out when turning,
like at a stoplight, you can add a little bit of limited slip
additive to make the oil a little more slippery. But if you add
too much you'll make your synchro rings ineffective, so you have to
add a little bit at a time until the grabbing problem is solved to
your liking.
The upshot is that yes, you can use GL-5 oil in a ZF, but you'll be
damaging your synchro rings and gears. Synchros require some
friction between the rings to work. If the oil is too slippery, the
spinning ring does not make the next one spin like it is supposed
to, so the next gear is not brought up to speed. And ZF work is not
cheap.
Sorry if something here is not right, but I'm pretty sure the
conclusion is correct. Ferrari transaxles are basically the same in
terms of design, and those guys are totally anal about this stuff.
Jim.
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Boian <wayneboian at windstream.net>
To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Mon, Jun 24, 2019 8:32 am
Subject: [DeTomaso] Metal particles in Transaxle
I change the oil in the Transaxle last night and found metal
particles
on the magnetic drain plug. See attached photo.
The car has maybe 3,500 to 4,000 miles since the fluid was last
changed. There was no other foreign material in the container used to
drain the fluid.
How mush sleep should I be loosing over the amount of metal
particles
in the photo.
FWIW, I am using Castrol Limited Slip 80W-90 in the transaxle.
Thanks
Wayne
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:pantdino at aol.com
2. mailto:wayneboian at windstream.net
3. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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