[DeTomaso] Engine Questions

Thu Apr 4 16:32:04 EDT 2019

Richard, there are three different 351-C timing pointers that I know of, so be careful paying for one sight unseen. They all interchange. Not sure if they are year-specific, but the one you definitely want to avoid is the 'late' style: it doesn't have an actual pointer but has a round hole in a sheet metal extension. This then holds an electronic sensor the size of a cigarette butt that works with a factory 'black-box' to detect the timing mark on the balancer. One with a pointer from a '70 block was quite small while the one from my late '72 was substantially larger, using two bolts and a dowel pin hole to mount. 

All stock 351-Cs use a gray-iron 164-tooth flywheel and they weigh around 40 lbs. Each time a flywheel is 'trued', it loses weight so a rusty beat-up one from a junkyard might weigh quite a bit more than a clean, reconditioned one. 10 minutes with a wire brush cleans up a rusty one unless it's badly scored or bent. Your Fidanza weighs about 15-17 lbs & unless you adjust your driving style, increase the idle speed or increase torque substantially, it WILL buck and lug in gear at low speeds. Steel aftermarket 'racing' flywheels can weigh as much as 55 lbs! To drag racers, 3300 lbs (stock Pantera) is considered a 'heavy' car and would drag better with a heavy flywheel. Road racing conversely needs as light a flywheel as possible. As they say, 'different horses for different courses....'

 Most Ford V8 flywheels interchange- you will be able to bolt on a 351-Windsor or even a big-block assembly, but small block units are usually 157-tooth. The clutch bolt-hole drillings vary, too. Those will also bolt on but the starter mount on the block will be out of position and will not spin the engine without much mod-ding. Pay close attention to the ring gear teeth on used flywheels- if only a few out of 164 teeth are worn or chipped, the thing may not work reliably because a given engine usually 'parks' at the same point in rotation each time its shut down, and starts off the same handful of teeth. The crank bolt pattern is non-symmetrical so you can't move the flywheel in refrence to the crank. Changing a flywheel ring gear is non-trivial because they are heat-shrunk on.

A high-buck 'high-flow' water pump will not cure overheating; matter of fact, your temp gauge probably won't be able to detect much if any water temp differences between pumps once the car is thoroughly warmed up on the highway. Increasing pump speed with an under-driven pulley increases low speed water flow but cavitates at a lower rpm than stock on the highway. So it depends on where you spend most of your time. The major difference is whether there is a bypass port or not in the pump body. That in turn dictates if you'll need a Cleveland thermostat. No bypass means you can use about any thermostat- even some Chevy units fit. Drawback is a slightly extended warmup time and thus more startup emissions. Good luck in South Texas this summer- J DeRyke

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Greenblum <richard at richardgreenblum.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Thu, Apr 4, 2019 9:25 am
Subject: [DeTomaso] Engine Questions

  I'm at it with questions again...are 351C flywheels 164 tooth?

  I'd like to know your experience/opinions on:

  Water Pumps--Flowkooler vs. Edelbrock

  Oil Pans--Aviaid vs. Armando (Mike explained they're basically the same
  with Armando having come from Aviaid, but I thought there was some
  concern with the pan rails on Aramandos at one time)

  Does anyone have a stock timing pointer they're willing to sell, or is
  this a prayer at a junkyard item?  Trying to avoid having to take it
  off the engine in the car...

  Thanks to all again,

  Richard

  Austin, TX
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-------------- next part --------------
   Richard, there are three different 351-C timing pointers that I know
   of, so be careful paying for one sight unseen. They all interchange.
   Not sure if they are year-specific, but the one you definitely want to
   avoid is the 'late' style: it doesn't have an actual pointer but has a
   round hole in a sheet metal extension. This then holds an electronic
   sensor the size of a cigarette butt that works with a factory
   'black-box' to detect the timing mark on the balancer. One with a
   pointer from a '70 block was quite small while the one from my late '72
   was substantially larger, using two bolts and a dowel pin hole to
   mount.
   All stock 351-Cs use a gray-iron 164-tooth flywheel and they weigh
   around 40 lbs. Each time a flywheel is 'trued', it loses weight so a
   rusty beat-up one from a junkyard might weigh quite a bit more than a
   clean, reconditioned one. 10 minutes with a wire brush cleans up a
   rusty one unless it's badly scored or bent. Your Fidanza weighs about
   15-17 lbs & unless you adjust your driving style, increase the idle
   speed or increase torque substantially, it WILL buck and lug in gear at
   low speeds. Steel aftermarket 'racing' flywheels can weigh as much as
   55 lbs! To drag racers, 3300 lbs (stock Pantera) is considered a
   'heavy' car and would drag better with a heavy flywheel. Road racing
   conversely needs as light a flywheel as possible. As they say,
   'different horses for different courses....'
    Most Ford V8 flywheels interchange- you will be able to bolt on a
   351-Windsor or even a big-block assembly, but small block units are
   usually 157-tooth. The clutch bolt-hole drillings vary, too. Those will
   also bolt on but the starter mount on the block will be out of position
   and will not spin the engine without much mod-ding. Pay close attention
   to the ring gear teeth on used flywheels- if only a few out of 164
   teeth are worn or chipped, the thing may not work reliably because a
   given engine usually 'parks' at the same point in rotation each time
   its shut down, and starts off the same handful of teeth. The crank bolt
   pattern is non-symmetrical so you can't move the flywheel in refrence
   to the crank. Changing a flywheel ring gear is non-trivial because they
   are heat-shrunk on.
   A high-buck 'high-flow' water pump will not cure overheating; matter of
   fact, your temp gauge probably won't be able to detect much if any
   water temp differences between pumps once the car is thoroughly warmed
   up on the highway. Increasing pump speed with an under-driven pulley
   increases low speed water flow but cavitates at a lower rpm than stock
   on the highway. So it depends on where you spend most of your time. The
   major difference is whether there is a bypass port or not in the pump
   body. That in turn dictates if you'll need a Cleveland thermostat. No
   bypass means you can use about any thermostat- even some Chevy units
   fit. Drawback is a slightly extended warmup time and thus more startup
   emissions. Good luck in South Texas this summer- J DeRyke

   -----Original Message-----
   From: Richard Greenblum <richard at richardgreenblum.com>
   To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Thu, Apr 4, 2019 9:25 am
   Subject: [DeTomaso] Engine Questions
     I'm at it with questions again...are 351C flywheels 164 tooth?
     I'd like to know your experience/opinions on:
     Water Pumps--Flowkooler vs. Edelbrock
     Oil Pans--Aviaid vs. Armando (Mike explained they're basically the
   same
     with Armando having come from Aviaid, but I thought there was some
     concern with the pan rails on Aramandos at one time)
     Does anyone have a stock timing pointer they're willing to sell, or
   is
     this a prayer at a junkyard item?  Trying to avoid having to take it
     off the engine in the car...
     Thanks to all again,
     Richard
     Austin, TX
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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   use the links above.
   Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
   message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
   list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
   or approve the archiving of list messages.

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