[DeTomaso] Engine Questions
B Hower
b.hower3400 at yahoo.com
Thu Apr 4 16:59:16 EDT 2019
FWIW:
Not all Ford OEM flywheels are balanced the same as a 164 tooth 351C. Some are for externally balanced and some not.... 302 changed their flywheel balance weight in IIRC 1985 .... the 71 250 and 300 inline 6 uses a zero balance flywheel.
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )
On Thursday, April 4, 2019, 3:32:22 PM CDT, Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
Richard, there are three different 351-C timing pointers that I know
of, so be careful paying for one sight unseen. They all interchange.
Not sure if they are year-specific, but the one you definitely want to
avoid is the 'late' style: it doesn't have an actual pointer but has a
round hole in a sheet metal extension. This then holds an electronic
sensor the size of a cigarette butt that works with a factory
'black-box' to detect the timing mark on the balancer. One with a
pointer from a '70 block was quite small while the one from my late '72
was substantially larger, using two bolts and a dowel pin hole to
mount.
All stock 351-Cs use a gray-iron 164-tooth flywheel and they weigh
around 40 lbs. Each time a flywheel is 'trued', it loses weight so a
rusty beat-up one from a junkyard might weigh quite a bit more than a
clean, reconditioned one. 10 minutes with a wire brush cleans up a
rusty one unless it's badly scored or bent. Your Fidanza weighs about
15-17 lbs & unless you adjust your driving style, increase the idle
speed or increase torque substantially, it WILL buck and lug in gear at
low speeds. Steel aftermarket 'racing' flywheels can weigh as much as
55 lbs! To drag racers, 3300 lbs (stock Pantera) is considered a
'heavy' car and would drag better with a heavy flywheel. Road racing
conversely needs as light a flywheel as possible. As they say,
'different horses for different courses....'
Most Ford V8 flywheels interchange- you will be able to bolt on a
351-Windsor or even a big-block assembly, but small block units are
usually 157-tooth. The clutch bolt-hole drillings vary, too. Those will
also bolt on but the starter mount on the block will be out of position
and will not spin the engine without much mod-ding. Pay close attention
to the ring gear teeth on used flywheels- if only a few out of 164
teeth are worn or chipped, the thing may not work reliably because a
given engine usually 'parks' at the same point in rotation each time
its shut down, and starts off the same handful of teeth. The crank bolt
pattern is non-symmetrical so you can't move the flywheel in refrence
to the crank. Changing a flywheel ring gear is non-trivial because they
are heat-shrunk on.
A high-buck 'high-flow' water pump will not cure overheating; matter of
fact, your temp gauge probably won't be able to detect much if any
water temp differences between pumps once the car is thoroughly warmed
up on the highway. Increasing pump speed with an under-driven pulley
increases low speed water flow but cavitates at a lower rpm than stock
on the highway. So it depends on where you spend most of your time. The
major difference is whether there is a bypass port or not in the pump
body. That in turn dictates if you'll need a Cleveland thermostat. No
bypass means you can use about any thermostat- even some Chevy units
fit. Drawback is a slightly extended warmup time and thus more startup
emissions. Good luck in South Texas this summer- J DeRyke
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Greenblum <richard at richardgreenblum.com>
To: detomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Thu, Apr 4, 2019 9:25 am
Subject: [DeTomaso] Engine Questions
I'm at it with questions again...are 351C flywheels 164 tooth?
I'd like to know your experience/opinions on:
Water Pumps--Flowkooler vs. Edelbrock
Oil Pans--Aviaid vs. Armando (Mike explained they're basically the
same
with Armando having come from Aviaid, but I thought there was some
concern with the pan rails on Aramandos at one time)
Does anyone have a stock timing pointer they're willing to sell, or
is
this a prayer at a junkyard item? Trying to avoid having to take it
off the engine in the car...
Thanks to all again,
Richard
Austin, TX
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-------------- next part --------------
FWIW:
Not all Ford OEM flywheels are balanced the same as a 164 tooth 351C.
Some are for externally balanced and some not.... 302 changed their
flywheel balance weight in IIRC 1985 .... the 71 250 and 300 inline 6
uses a zero balance flywheel.
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
! )
On Thursday, April 4, 2019, 3:32:22 PM CDT, Jack DeRyke via DeTomaso
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
Richard, there are three different 351-C timing pointers that I know
of, so be careful paying for one sight unseen. They all interchange.
Not sure if they are year-specific, but the one you definitely want
to
avoid is the 'late' style: it doesn't have an actual pointer but has
a
round hole in a sheet metal extension. This then holds an electronic
sensor the size of a cigarette butt that works with a factory
'black-box' to detect the timing mark on the balancer. One with a
pointer from a '70 block was quite small while the one from my late
'72
was substantially larger, using two bolts and a dowel pin hole to
mount.
All stock 351-Cs use a gray-iron 164-tooth flywheel and they weigh
around 40 lbs. Each time a flywheel is 'trued', it loses weight so a
rusty beat-up one from a junkyard might weigh quite a bit more than a
clean, reconditioned one. 10 minutes with a wire brush cleans up a
rusty one unless it's badly scored or bent. Your Fidanza weighs about
15-17 lbs & unless you adjust your driving style, increase the idle
speed or increase torque substantially, it WILL buck and lug in gear
at
low speeds. Steel aftermarket 'racing' flywheels can weigh as much as
55 lbs! To drag racers, 3300 lbs (stock Pantera) is considered a
'heavy' car and would drag better with a heavy flywheel. Road racing
conversely needs as light a flywheel as possible. As they say,
'different horses for different courses....'
Most Ford V8 flywheels interchange- you will be able to bolt on a
351-Windsor or even a big-block assembly, but small block units are
usually 157-tooth. The clutch bolt-hole drillings vary, too. Those
will
also bolt on but the starter mount on the block will be out of
position
and will not spin the engine without much mod-ding. Pay close
attention
to the ring gear teeth on used flywheels- if only a few out of 164
teeth are worn or chipped, the thing may not work reliably because a
given engine usually 'parks' at the same point in rotation each time
its shut down, and starts off the same handful of teeth. The crank
bolt
pattern is non-symmetrical so you can't move the flywheel in refrence
to the crank. Changing a flywheel ring gear is non-trivial because
they
are heat-shrunk on.
A high-buck 'high-flow' water pump will not cure overheating; matter
of
fact, your temp gauge probably won't be able to detect much if any
water temp differences between pumps once the car is thoroughly
warmed
up on the highway. Increasing pump speed with an under-driven pulley
increases low speed water flow but cavitates at a lower rpm than
stock
on the highway. So it depends on where you spend most of your time.
The
major difference is whether there is a bypass port or not in the pump
body. That in turn dictates if you'll need a Cleveland thermostat. No
bypass means you can use about any thermostat- even some Chevy units
fit. Drawback is a slightly extended warmup time and thus more
startup
emissions. Good luck in South Texas this summer- J DeRyke
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Greenblum <[1]richard at richardgreenblum.com>
To: detomaso <[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Thu, Apr 4, 2019 9:25 am
Subject: [DeTomaso] Engine Questions
I'm at it with questions again...are 351C flywheels 164 tooth?
I'd like to know your experience/opinions on:
Water Pumps--Flowkooler vs. Edelbrock
Oil Pans--Aviaid vs. Armando (Mike explained they're basically the
same
with Armando having come from Aviaid, but I thought there was some
concern with the pan rails on Aramandos at one time)
Does anyone have a stock timing pointer they're willing to sell, or
is
this a prayer at a junkyard item? Trying to avoid having to take
it
off the engine in the car...
Thanks to all again,
Richard
Austin, TX
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