[DeTomaso] Oil temperature
Ken Green
kenn_green at yahoo.com
Sun Jun 12 13:22:48 EDT 2016
Jeff,
Do you think the "Laminova" type oil coolers the Ford used do a very good job? I don't think the Ford coolers have the cooling capacity of the coolers made by Laminova? Seems like they also restrict coolant flow.
Ken
From: Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1 at me.com>
To: mark skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com>; Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>; "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
Interesting thread.
It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that heat exchangers
were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than the vehicles speed.
Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins
boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the hot metal fins.
So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area, maybe by 1/4th.
Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants 210 F, though the oil
heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the coolants so that at extreme temps
the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant.
After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant temps so a larger reserve
heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be present so to not allow dangerous
oil temps, ie; 280F.
The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly whereas coolant takes heat from
surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated heat or metals that capture/hold
heat from friction.
Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled
oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air.
Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid because of the high surface area
and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together.
Keep cool,
Jeff Cobb
On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:26 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear wheel.
> I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran some
> ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at SSCC
> last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump
> running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see what
> happens this year.
> Mark
> 5481
> On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a
> monumental
> act of wishful thinking....
> Mike
> Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[1][1]guson at home.se>
> wrote:
> What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins.
> I
> doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that
> position
> is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp.
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Scott Mead Photography
> [[2][2]scott at scottmeadphotography.com]
> Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM
> To: [3][3]demongusta at gmail.com;[4][4]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Cc: [5][5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
> Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a
> reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler
> mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy
> was
> that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through
> the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked,
> I
> have no idea, but it was a clean setup.
> FWIW,
> Scott
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso
> [[6]mailto:[6]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
> Behalf Of Jack Donahue
> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM
> To: Mike Drew
> Cc: [7][7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
> Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be
> an
> air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C
> condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original
> condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get
> the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds
> good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few
> years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on
> hot days in traffic.
>> On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> <[8][8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>
>> AJ,
>>
>> Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at
> freeway speeds?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton
> <[9][9]asajay at asajay.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>> Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this
> topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290.
> That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the
> information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around
> 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run
> Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but
> I
> don't have the spec in front of me.
>>>
>>> For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a
> racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120
> class
> and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right
> around
> 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need
> to
> add an oil cooler.
>>>
>>> Your mileage may vary,
>>> Asa Jay
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10]demongusta at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and
> topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water
> pump,
> thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would
> pursue
> the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of
> an
> oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project
> (get
> in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I
> need
> some feedback. All input is appreciated.
>>>> #4348
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
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>>> ******************************************************
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>>> [14][14]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
>>>
>>>
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> 12. [34]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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> 14. [36]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
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> 9. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 10. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
> 11. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 12. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 13. http://www.w7tsc.org/
> 14. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> 15. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 16. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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> 23. mailto:guson at home.se
> 24. mailto:scott at scottmeadphotography.com
> 25. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
> 26. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 27. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 28. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 29. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 30. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 31. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
> 32. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
> 33. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 34. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 35. http://www.w7tsc.org/
> 36. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
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-------------- next part --------------
Jeff,
Do you think the "Laminova" type oil coolers the Ford used do a
very good job? I don't think the Ford coolers have the cooling
capacity of the coolers made by Laminova? Seems like they also
restrict coolant flow.
Ken
__________________________________________________________________
From: Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1 at me.com>
To: mark skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com>; Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>;
Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>; "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
Interesting thread.
It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that
heat exchangers
were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than
the vehicles speed.
Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils
surfaces otherwise the fins
boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the
hot metal fins.
So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area,
maybe by 1/4th.
Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants
210 F, though the oil
heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the
coolants so that at extreme temps
the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant.
After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than
coolant temps so a larger reserve
heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be
present so to not allow dangerous
oil temps, ie; 280F.
The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly
whereas coolant takes heat from
surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated
heat or metals that capture/hold
heat from friction.
Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle
entry and thermostatically controlled
oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air.
Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid
because of the high surface area
and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together.
Keep cool,
Jeff Cobb
On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:26 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso
<[1]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear
wheel.
> I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran
some
> ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at
SSCC
> last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump
> running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see
what
> happens this year.
> Mark
> 5481
> On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> <[2]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a
> monumental
> act of wishful thinking....
> Mike
> Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson
<[1][1][3]guson at home.se>
> wrote:
> What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler
fins.
> I
> doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that
> position
> is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp.
> Tomas
> <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> From: Scott Mead Photography
> [[2][2][4]scott at scottmeadphotography.com]
> Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM
> To: [3][3][5]demongusta at gmail.com;[4][4][6]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> Cc: [5][5][7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
> Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had
installed a
> reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil
cooler
> mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The
philosophy
> was
> that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air
through
> the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively
worked,
> I
> have no idea, but it was a clean setup.
> FWIW,
> Scott
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DeTomaso
> [[6]mailto:[6][8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
> Behalf Of Jack Donahue
> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM
> To: Mike Drew
> Cc: [7][7][9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
> Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it
be
> an
> air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C
> condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original
> condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I
get
> the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds
> good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a
few
> years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge
on
> hot days in traffic.
>> On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> <[8][8][10]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>>
>> AJ,
>>
>> Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at
> freeway speeds?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton
> <[9][9][11]asajay at asajay.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>> Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this
> topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near
290.
> That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the
> information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down
around
> 230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also
run
> Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown
but
> I
> don't have the spec in front of me.
>>>
>>> For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a
> racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120
> class
> and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right
> around
> 230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd
need
> to
> add an oil cooler.
>>>
>>> Your mileage may vary,
>>> Asa Jay
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10][12]demongusta at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and
> topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water
> pump,
> thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would
> pursue
> the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range
of
> an
> oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project
> (get
> in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I
> need
> some feedback. All input is appreciated.
>>>> #4348
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
>>> ******************************************************
>>> [13][13][15]http://www.w7tsc.org/
>>> [14][14][16]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
>>>
>>>
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> References
> 1. mailto:[23][25]guson at home.se
> 2. mailto:[24][26]scott at scottmeadphotography.com
> 3. mailto:[25][27]demongusta at gmail.com
> 4. mailto:[26][28]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 5. mailto:[27][29]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 6. mailto:[28][30]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 7. mailto:[29][31]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 8. mailto:[30][32]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 9. mailto:[31][33]asajay at asajay.com
> 10. mailto:[32][34]demongusta at gmail.com
> 11. mailto:[33][35]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 12.
[34][36]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 13. [35][37]http://www.w7tsc.org/
> 14. [36][38]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> 15. mailto:[37][39]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 16.
[38][40]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 17. mailto:[39][41]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 18.
[40][42]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 19. mailto:[41][43]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 20.
[42][44]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 21. mailto:[43][45]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 22.
[44][46]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
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> DeTomaso mailing list
> [45][47]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [46][48]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
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> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
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> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[49]guson at home.se
> 2. mailto:[50]scott at scottmeadphotography.com
> 3. mailto:[51]demongusta at gmail.com
> 4. mailto:[52]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 5. mailto:[53]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 6. mailto:[54]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 7. mailto:[55]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 8. mailto:[56]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 9. mailto:[57]asajay at asajay.com
> 10. mailto:[58]demongusta at gmail.com
> 11. mailto:[59]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 12. [60]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 13. [61]http://www.w7tsc.org/
> 14. [62]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> 15. mailto:[63]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 16. [64]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 17. mailto:[65]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 18. [66]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 19. mailto:[67]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 20. [68]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 21. mailto:[69]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 22. [70]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 23. mailto:[71]guson at home.se
> 24. mailto:[72]scott at scottmeadphotography.com
> 25. mailto:[73]demongusta at gmail.com
> 26. mailto:[74]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 27. mailto:[75]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 28. mailto:[76]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
> 29. mailto:[77]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 30. mailto:[78]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 31. mailto:[79]asajay at asajay.com
> 32. mailto:[80]demongusta at gmail.com
> 33. mailto:[81]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 34. [82]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 35. [83]http://www.w7tsc.org/
> 36. [84]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> 37. mailto:[85]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 38. [86]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 39. mailto:[87]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 40. [88]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 41. mailto:[89]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 42. [90]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 43. mailto:[91]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 44. [92]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> 45. mailto:[93]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> 46. [94]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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> [95]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [96]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
>
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
_______________________________________________
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[98]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
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list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
3. mailto:guson at home.se
4. mailto:scott at scottmeadphotography.com
5. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
6. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
8. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
10. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
11. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
12. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
13. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
15. http://www.w7tsc.org/
16. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
17. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
18. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
19. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
20. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
21. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
22. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
23. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
24. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
25. mailto:guson at home.se
26. mailto:scott at scottmeadphotography.com
27. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
28. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
29. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
30. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
31. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
32. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
33. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
34. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
35. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
36. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
37. http://www.w7tsc.org/
38. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
39. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
40. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
41. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
42. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
43. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
44. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
45. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
46. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
47. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
48. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
49. mailto:guson at home.se
50. mailto:scott at scottmeadphotography.com
51. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
52. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
53. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
54. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
55. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
56. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
57. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
58. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
59. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
60. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
61. http://www.w7tsc.org/
62. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
63. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
64. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
65. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
66. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
67. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
68. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
69. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
70. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
71. mailto:guson at home.se
72. mailto:scott at scottmeadphotography.com
73. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
74. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
75. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
76. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
77. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
78. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
79. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
80. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
81. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
82. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
83. http://www.w7tsc.org/
84. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
85. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
86. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
87. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
88. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
89. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
90. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
91. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
92. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
93. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
94. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
95. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
96. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
97. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
98. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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