[DeTomaso] Oil temperature
Jeff Cobb
jeffcobb1 at me.com
Sun Jun 12 13:54:50 EDT 2016
Asa Jay,
I recommend oil/water because it is not speed related, keeps both temps more constant and
closer together, easier to place in, no real external possible problems, no airflow visual issues and lowers/removes the ability to have other problems like oil hose leakage, collisional oil hose actions, extra weight and space fitting problems, issues from hose rubbing noises, cabin temp increases, mounting problems and less aerodynamic drag.
Of course the radiator must be up to snuff to capture and release this additional heat.
My research/design and mock up of a 10qt marine oil pan for my Mangusta, with one or two Laminova round heat exchangers installed fore to aft, which I have four of, will bung nut and copper washer seal or be brazed in against the pans side wing front and rear walls. Then the radiators return water pipe will flex hose connect to the coolers neck with then a hose and pipe configuration attaching the coolers output to the w/p lower suction hose intake.
I desire to do this and much more but I know that I CANNOT DO IT to this 4,600 mile car because of damaging its fine originality. So I will only dream, think and scheme.
I need to get another goose and put these idea and many others to work.
Any tired Mangusta out there that you would like to sell?
For those of you who may be bored or would enjoy a good read, I wrote an eleven page list of betterment modifications to every part of the car that I can send to you, yea right.
In this Mangusta overview we also used my electronic billet weight scales and weighed the car to find many written articles of weight and balance percentages to be wrong. My shop and I will be using this car in July to do body twist rigidity, weight transfer, center of gravity and off center axis weight center dry-wet-driverless-and driver test on a real word level so to establish an original Mangusta static and dynamic base line. We will not bolt down the body to find X# lb per degree twist, that would be only important if massive internal body/frame or roll bar changes were to take place and if racing was an option.
Mike Drew said that if I were to apply these mods to my car that he would have me arrested, tried and hung for deTomasoMangustahomicide.
Jeff Cobb
On Jun 12, 2016, at 11:36 AM, Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com> wrote:
> Jeff, nice explanation. I'm not certain though from your science perspective if you would advocate the air or water cooling method over the other. Also, at what air speeds does the air cooling of fins on the radiator begin to breakdown? Would it be at speeds seen in typical race cars? (Less than 200mph)
>
> Asa Jay
> Learning something new every day.
>
> Quoting Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1 at me.com>:
>
>> Interesting thread.
>> It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that heat exchangers
>> were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than the vehicles speed.
>> Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins
>> boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the hot metal fins.
>> So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area, maybe by 1/4th.
>>
>> Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants 210 F, though the oil
>> heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the coolants so that at extreme temps
>> the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant.
>> After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant temps so a larger reserve
>> heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be present so to not allow dangerous
>> oil temps, ie; 280F.
>> The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly whereas coolant takes heat from
>> surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated heat or metals that capture/hold
>> heat from friction.
>> Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled
>> oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air.
>> Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid because of the high surface area
>> and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together.
>>
>> Keep cool,
>> Jeff Cobb
>>
>
> --
> Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
> ******************************************************
> http://www.w7tsc.org
> http://www.teampanteraracing.com
>
>
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>
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-------------- next part --------------
Asa Jay,
I recommend oil/water because it is not speed related, keeps both temps
more constant and
closer together, easier to place in, no real external possible
problems, no airflow visual issues and lowers/removes the ability to
have other problems like oil hose leakage, collisional oil hose
actions, extra weight and space fitting problems, issues from hose
rubbing noises, cabin temp increases, mounting problems and less
aerodynamic drag.
Of course the radiator must be up to snuff to capture and release this
additional heat.
My research/design and mock up of a 10qt marine oil pan for my
Mangusta, with one or two Laminova round heat exchangers installed fore
to aft, which I have four of, will bung nut and copper washer seal or
be brazed in against the pans side wing front and rear walls. Then the
radiators return water pipe will flex hose connect to the coolers neck
with then a hose and pipe configuration attaching the coolers output to
the w/p lower suction hose intake.
I desire to do this and much more but I know that I CANNOT DO IT to
this 4,600 mile car because of damaging its fine originality. So I will
only dream, think and scheme.
I need to get another goose and put these idea and many others to work.
Any tired Mangusta out there that you would like to sell?
For those of you who may be bored or would enjoy a good read, I wrote
an eleven page list of betterment modifications to every part of the
car that I can send to you, yea right.
In this Mangusta overview we also used my electronic billet weight
scales and weighed the car to find many written articles of weight and
balance percentages to be wrong. My shop and I will be using this car
in July to do body twist rigidity, weight transfer, center of gravity
and off center axis weight center dry-wet-driverless-and driver test on
a real word level so to establish an original Mangusta static and
dynamic base line. We will not bolt down the body to find X# lb per
degree twist, that would be only important if massive internal
body/frame or roll bar changes were to take place and if racing was an
option.
Mike Drew said that if I were to apply these mods to my car that he
would have me arrested, tried and hung for deTomasoMangustahomicide.
Jeff Cobb
On Jun 12, 2016, at 11:36 AM, Asa Jay Laughton <[1]asajay at asajay.com>
wrote:
Jeff, nice explanation. I'm not certain though from your science
perspective if you would advocate the air or water cooling method
over the other. Also, at what air speeds does the air cooling of
fins on the radiator begin to breakdown? Would it be at speeds seen
in typical race cars? (Less than 200mph)
Asa Jay
Learning something new every day.
Quoting Jeff Cobb <[2]jeffcobb1 at me.com>:
Interesting thread.
It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry
that heat exchangers
were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower
than the vehicles speed.
Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils
surfaces otherwise the fins
boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the
hot metal fins.
So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface
area, maybe by 1/4th.
Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about
coolants 210 F, though the oil
heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the
coolants so that at extreme temps
the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant.
After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than
coolant temps so a larger reserve
heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be
present so to not allow dangerous
oil temps, ie; 280F.
The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly
whereas coolant takes heat from
surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated
heat or metals that capture/hold
heat from friction.
Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct
nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled
oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air.
Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid
because of the high surface area
and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together.
Keep cool,
Jeff Cobb
--
Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
******************************************************
[3]http://www.w7tsc.org
http://www.teampanteraracing.com
_______________________________________________
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Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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References
1. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
2. mailto:jeffcobb1 at me.com
3. http://www.w7tsc.org/
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