[DeTomaso] Oil temperature

Mike Drew MikeLDrew at aol.com
Sun Jun 12 13:38:47 EDT 2016


Ken,

The Ford coolers as used on Crown Vic police cars and taxis are made for Ford by Laminova. The external casting is to Ford specs for packaging reasons but the guts are pure Laminova. I have several of them I've had modified to take A/N fittings but have yet to find the time to install one on my car. I'm still trying to choose a mounting location....

Mike

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 12, 2016, at 10:22, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Jeff,
> 
>     Do you think the "Laminova" type oil coolers the Ford used do a very good job?  I don't think the Ford coolers have the  cooling capacity of the coolers made by Laminova?  Seems like they also restrict coolant flow.
> 
> Ken
> 
> 
> From: Jeff Cobb <jeffcobb1 at me.com>
> To: mark skwarek <ehpantera at yahoo.com>; Mike Drew <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; Tomas Gunnarsson <guson at home.se>; "detomaso at server.detomasolist.com" <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> 
> Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
> 
> Interesting thread.
> It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that heat exchangers 
> were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than the vehicles speed.
> Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils surfaces otherwise the fins 
> boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the hot metal fins. 
> So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area, maybe by 1/4th.
> 
> Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants 210 F, though the oil 
> heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the coolants so that at extreme temps 
> the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant. 
> After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than coolant temps so a larger reserve 
> heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be present so to not allow dangerous 
> oil temps, ie; 280F.
> The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly whereas coolant takes heat from 
> surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated heat or metals that capture/hold 
> heat from friction.
> Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle entry and thermostatically controlled 
> oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air.
> Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid because of the high surface area
> and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together.
> 
> Keep cool,
> Jeff Cobb
> 
> On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:26 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> 
> >  My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear wheel.
> >  I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran some
> >  ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at SSCC
> >  last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump
> >  running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see what
> >  happens this year.
> >  Mark
> >  5481
> >  On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> >  <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> >    Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a
> >  monumental
> >    act of wishful thinking....
> >    Mike
> >    Sent from my iPad
> >    On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson <[1][1]guson at home.se>
> >  wrote:
> >    What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler fins.
> >  I
> >    doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that
> >  position
> >    is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp.
> >    Tomas
> >    <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
> >        From: Scott Mead Photography
> >  [[2][2]scott at scottmeadphotography.com]
> >    Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM
> >    To: [3][3]demongusta at gmail.com;[4][4]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> >    Cc: [5][5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
> >    Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had installed a
> >    reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil cooler
> >    mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The philosophy
> >  was
> >    that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air through
> >    the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively worked,
> >  I
> >    have no idea, but it was a clean setup.
> >    FWIW,
> >    Scott
> >    -----Original Message-----
> >    From: DeTomaso
> >  [[6]mailto:[6]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
> >    Behalf Of Jack Donahue
> >    Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM
> >    To: Mike Drew
> >    Cc: [7][7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
> >    Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it be
> >  an
> >    air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C
> >    condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original
> >    condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I get
> >    the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds
> >    good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a few
> >    years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge on
> >    hot days in traffic.
> >> On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
> >    <[8][8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >> AJ,
> >> 
> >> Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at
> >    freeway speeds?
> >> 
> >> Mike
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> 
> >> On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton
> >  <[9][9]asajay at asajay.com>
> >    wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this
> >    topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near 290.
> >    That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the
> >    information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down around
> >    230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also run
> >    Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown but
> >  I
> >    don't have the spec in front of me.
> >>> 
> >>> For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a
> >    racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120
> >  class
> >    and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right
> >  around
> >    230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd need
> >  to
> >    add an oil cooler.
> >>> 
> >>> Your mileage may vary,
> >>> Asa Jay
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10]demongusta at gmail.com>:
> >>> 
> >>>> Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and
> >    topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water
> >  pump,
> >    thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would
> >  pursue
> >    the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range of
> >  an
> >    oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project
> >  (get
> >    in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I
> >  need
> >    some feedback. All input is appreciated.
> >>>> #4348
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
> >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
> >>>> [11][11]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> >>>> [12][12]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> >>>> 
> >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> >    etc.) use the links above.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
> >  forward
> >    any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
> >  the
> >    list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> >  archive
> >    or approve the archiving of list messages.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> --
> >>> Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
> >>> ******************************************************
> >>> [13][13]http://www.w7tsc.org/
> >>> [14][14]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
> >>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
> >>> [15][15]
-------------- next part --------------
   Ken,

   The Ford coolers as used on Crown Vic police cars and taxis are made
   for Ford by Laminova. The external casting is to Ford specs for
   packaging reasons but the guts are pure Laminova. I have several of
   them I've had modified to take A/N fittings but have yet to find the
   time to install one on my car. I'm still trying to choose a mounting
   location....

   Mike

   Sent from my iPhone

   On Jun 12, 2016, at 10:22, Ken Green <[1]kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:

   Jeff,
       Do you think the "Laminova" type oil coolers the Ford used do a
   very good job?  I don't think the Ford coolers have the  cooling
   capacity of the coolers made by Laminova?  Seems like they also
   restrict coolant flow.
   Ken
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: Jeff Cobb <[2]jeffcobb1 at me.com>
   To: mark skwarek <[3]ehpantera at yahoo.com>; Mike Drew
   <[4]MikeLDrew at aol.com>; Tomas Gunnarsson <[5]guson at home.se>;
   "[6]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com"
   <[7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
   Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:14 AM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
   Interesting thread.
   It has been documented many decades back in the aircraft industry that
   heat exchangers
   were more efficient if the exchangers airflow speed was much lower than
   the vehicles speed.
   Cooling air needs time to conduct air from the cooling fins/coils
   surfaces otherwise the fins
   boundary air allows the laminar air rushing through to not touch the
   hot metal fins.
   So the ducts entry area needs to be less than the coolers surface area,
   maybe by 1/4th.
   Oil temps should always be warmer than the coolant up to about coolants
   210 F, though the oil
   heat rejection reserve capacity must be greater than that of the
   coolants so that at extreme temps
   the oils temp does not rise quicker nor higher than the coolant.
   After 230F + -, oil temps under load will rise much quicker than
   coolant temps so a larger reserve
   heat rejection option relative to coolants reserve design must be
   present so to not allow dangerous
   oil temps, ie; 280F.
   The oil is primary in cooling all the interior heated parts directly
   whereas coolant takes heat from
   surfaces that are secondary heat conductors, are a slave to radiated
   heat or metals that capture/hold
   heat from friction.
   Large oil coolers with a thermostatic controlled variable duct nozzle
   entry and thermostatically controlled
   oil flow may work the best in heat rejection to air.
   Whereas a Laminova tubular coolers work the best in a cooling liquid
   because of the high surface area
   and has a better ability to keep both temp closer together.
   Keep cool,
   Jeff Cobb
   On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:26 AM, mark skwarek via DeTomaso
   <[8]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
   >  My oil cooler is mounted horizontally in front of the right rear
   wheel.
   >  I have a separate oil pump to circulate the oil. Last year I ran
   some
   >  ducting from my front spoiler to the oil cooler. While running at
   SSCC
   >  last year 140 to 160 my oil temp was at 190 if I left the oil pump
   >  running. I'm changing back to a scoop in front of the wheel to see
   what
   >  happens this year.
   >  Mark
   >  5481
   >  On Sunday, June 12, 2016 4:47 AM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
   >  <[9]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
   >    Agreed--I think the wheel well-mounted air-oil cooler was a
   >  monumental
   >    act of wishful thinking....
   >    Mike
   >    Sent from my iPad
   >    On Jun 12, 2016, at 1:43 AM, Tomas Gunnarsson
   <[1][1][10]guson at home.se>
   >  wrote:
   >    What makes an air/oil cooler work is airflow through the cooler
   fins.
   >  I
   >    doubt that the pressure difference over an oil cooler in that
   >  position
   >    is significant, so it has limited effect on oil temp.
   >    Tomas
   >    <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
   >        From: Scott Mead Photography
   >  [[2][2][11]scott at scottmeadphotography.com]
   >    Sent: 11/6/2016 11:56:18 PM
   >    To: [3][3][12]demongusta at gmail.com;[4][4][13]MikeLDrew at aol.com
   >    Cc: [5][5][14]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   >    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
   >    Many moons ago, I saw a setup at Gary Hall's shop: He had
   installed a
   >    reverse-louvered, splash panel on the right rear with an oil
   cooler
   >    mounted to the inside (non-tire side) of the shield. The
   philosophy
   >  was
   >    that the spinning tire would provide a constant stream of air
   through
   >    the louvers at speed, cooling the oil. Whether it effectively
   worked,
   >  I
   >    have no idea, but it was a clean setup.
   >    FWIW,
   >    Scott
   >    -----Original Message-----
   >    From: DeTomaso
   >  [[6]mailto:[6][15]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com] On
   >    Behalf Of Jack Donahue
   >    Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2016 10:55 AM
   >    To: Mike Drew
   >    Cc: [7][7][16]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   >    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Oil temperature
   >    Out of curiosity, where would you add an oil cooler? And would it
   be
   >  an
   >    air-to-liquid - or - liquid-to-liquid cooler? Having moved the A/C
   >    condenser to the front, I was thinking of using the original
   >    condenser-space for an air-to-liquid cooler with a pusher fan. I
   get
   >    the feeling, however, that it's a waste of time, which sounds
   >    good/great to me. The old "track-pushing-hard" syndrome left me a
   few
   >    years back. Always looking for a way to NOT look at the temp gauge
   on
   >    hot days in traffic.
   >> On Jun 11, 2016, at 1:40 PM, Mike Drew via DeTomaso
   >    <[8][8][17]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
   >>
   >> AJ,
   >>
   >> Since you had instrumentation, what were your temps when driving at
   >    freeway speeds?
   >>
   >> Mike
   >>
   >> Sent from my iPhone
   >>
   >> On Jun 11, 2016, at 13:18, Asa Jay Laughton
   >  <[9][9][18]asajay at asajay.com>
   >    wrote:
   >>
   >>> Talking with another open road racer a few years ago about this
   >    topic, I was told you want about 230 degrees F and nothing near
   290.
   >    That's a nearly 60 degree difference. But the way he gave me the
   >    information makes me think you want to make sure you stay down
   around
   >    230. People smarter than me will know a lot more than me. I also
   run
   >    Amsoil full synthetic and there is a temp for viscocity breakdown
   but
   >  I
   >    don't have the spec in front of me.
   >>>
   >>> For open road racing, depnding on the engine build and speed, a
   >    racer will definitely want an oil cooler. Last year I ran the 120
   >  class
   >    and spent a good amount of time near 130. My oil temp ran right
   >  around
   >    230, so I knew if I wanted to move up to the 130-140 class, I'd
   need
   >  to
   >    add an oil cooler.
   >>>
   >>> Your mileage may vary,
   >>> Asa Jay
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>> Quoting Jack Donahue <[10][10][19]demongusta at gmail.com>:
   >>>
   >>>> Once again, as summer approaches, cooling becomes an issue and
   >    topic of some discussion. Rather than beating the radiator, water
   >  pump,
   >    thermostat, and pressure cap horses to death, I thought I would
   >  pursue
   >    the oil temperature. So, all you gurus, what is the normal range
   of
   >  an
   >    oil temperature in these beautiful beasts? My next little project
   >  (get
   >    in line) is to install an oil temp gauge. Waste of time? I guess I
   >  need
   >    some feedback. All input is appreciated.
   >>>> #4348
   >>>> _______________________________________________
   >>>>
   >>>>
   >>>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
   >>>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
   >>>> [11][11][20]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   >>>>
   [12][12][21]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
   >>>>
   >>>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   >    etc.) use the links above.
   >>>>
   >>>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to
   >  forward
   >    any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of
   >  the
   >    list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
   >  archive
   >    or approve the archiving of list messages.
   >>>
   >>>
   >>> --
   >>> Asa Jay Laughton - sent from somewhere other than home
   >>> ******************************************************
   >>> [13][13][22]http://www.w7tsc.org/
   >>> [14][14][23]http://www.teampanteraracing.com/
   >>>
   >>>
   >>> _______________________________________________
   >>>
   >>>
   >>> Detomaso Forum NO LONGER Managed by POCA Posted emails must not
   >>> exceed 1.5 Megabytes DeTomaso mailing list
   >>> [15][15]

References

   1. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
   2. mailto:jeffcobb1 at me.com
   3. mailto:ehpantera at yahoo.com
   4. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
   5. mailto:guson at home.se
   6. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   8. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   9. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  10. mailto:guson at home.se
  11. mailto:scott at scottmeadphotography.com
  12. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
  13. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  14. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  15. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
  16. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  17. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  18. mailto:asajay at asajay.com
  19. mailto:demongusta at gmail.com
  20. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
  21. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
  22. http://www.w7tsc.org/
  23. http://www.teampanteraracing.com/


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