[DeTomaso] Windshield Seal
michael frazier
red3644 at hotmail.com
Sun Dec 18 13:53:39 EST 2016
Hey Mike,
This thread brought to surface some old memories about windshields and gaskets I used while
putting my 2nd Pantera, #3644 back together. That was the early 80s and you were on your own for
the most part compared to the support we have today.
Regarding the gasket… it was in Italian wrapping and surprisingly bought at a little British car parts
place here in San Antonio. It wasn’t in Ford or DeTomaso wrapping.
The windshield came from a local Windshields America warehouse and it had a large “made in South Africa”
label on it. Have you ever seen that before? Both fit and sealed well.
Luckily the gasket on #6643 is still soft and flexible, so I’ll reuse it after extremely careful removal.
The original glass is looking tired. No cracks, chips or bullet holes… just pitting form some high speed
time by a previous owner. ?? It’s functional but not show quality. I wonder if there’s any need for that.
FWIW…
Michael
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
From: Mike Drew via DeTomaso<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2016 12:22 PM
To: fred at creekspeak.com<mailto:fred at creekspeak.com>; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; roland at jaeckel-partner.de<mailto:roland at jaeckel-partner.de>; detomaso at gmx.com<mailto:detomaso at gmx.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Windshield Seal
In a message dated 12/18/16 9:50:20 AM, fred at creekspeak.com writes:
I need to get a windshield seal for my '72 Pantera. The one that was
recently installed didn't fit well at all. I was told there is a two piece, but I
was told to get a one piece seal. Any suggestions for a source that has
worked for you. Please EMAIL me. I don't check this list every day. Thanks in
advance.
>>>Fred,
Some of the USA vendors sell a windshield gasket that is truly awful.
AWFUL. Although it's sold as a one-piece gasket, in a telling admission of
how bad it is, it comes with instructions offering suggestions regarding the
various ways and places you can cut it apart and change it “if” it doesn't
fit (and it never fits).
The good news is that quality seals made by the ORIGINAL supplier in Italy
are still available, but the bad news is that the nominal cost is greater.
However, if you are comparing the cost to install an expensive part that
fits and works perfectly, versus the cost to fit one that requires hours of
labor ($$$) and may or may not work when you're done, the quality solution,
besides being better, is almost assuredly cheaper.
Unfortunately you've already gone down the other path, so now you will have
to pay twice to get it fixed. But at least you should be happy with the
finished result.
Here is a link to the original supplier in Italy:
http://www.cicognaniguarnizioni.it/Detomaso-148/pantera-148-i05
(Note that they offer original rubber for ALL De Tomaso cars, even
Vallelungas!)
The site is available in either English or Italian; if it comes up in
Italian, click the British flag at the top right corner and it will switch to
English.
The early 1971 Panteras used a complex two-piece windshield molding, while
the 1972-on cars used a four-piece molding. The two setups use different
rubber gaskets, so be sure to order the correct one. Cost is 280 Euros for
either one.
If you don't want to order over the web from a company in Italy, you can
order from our buddy Roland Jackel in Hamburg, Germany. He imports them from
Italy and sells them retail for the same price (last time I checked). At
least that way you're buying from a friend. His website is www.detomaso.de<http://www.detomaso.de>
and his e-mail addresses are:
roland at jaeckel-partner.de
detomaso at gmx.com
Roland is a lurker on this forum too....
Mr. Fiat is (apparently) a retailer for this Italian company. They
advertise De Tomaso rubber and list all the models as well, which suggests that
they are selling the Good Stuff and not the cheap stuff offered by the USA
vendors. Located in Atlanta, they advertise Pantera rubber here:
http://mrfiat.com/italian/de-tomaso/pantera.html
The cost is MUCH higher here. However, this reflects the costs of
shipping to the USA and taxes etc. Nevertheless, armed with the knowledge of how
to buy them directly from European sources, I suspect it would be much less
expensive to go that route, especially considering the Euro has fallen
against the dollar, so your dollar travels further today than it did a few months
ago.
Your installer needs to know that the metal trim needs to be inserted in
the rubber, and the rubber around the glass, BEFORE he attempts to install the
windshield in the car. If he just wraps the glass with the gasket and
installs it, there's no real way to then add the trim afterwards, as it's held
in place with the crush between the edge of the glass and the edge of the
body.
Hopefully he uses some quality 3M windshield sealant during installation.
My glass was installed dry (25 years ago), and it squeaks when driving down
the road. I can actually reach up and feel the glass moving inside the
gasket (my aftermarket windshield might be a tiny bit smaller than the
original?). I've never taken the time to fix it, but a bit of good windshield
sealant would probably do the trick.
Note that Panteras are notorious for leaking at the bottom corners of the
windshield, so special attention should be paid there.
And do NOT simply use conventional RTV silicone. Jack DeRyke has reported
(and I fully believe) that normal RTV is slightly acidic, and can actually
cause corrosion (and thus leaks) to form. 3M Windshield sealant is The
Good Stuff. They are a bit proud of it ($$$) but you don't want to cut
corners here.
Good luck, and please let us know how it turns out!
Mike
-------------- next part --------------
Hey Mike,
This thread brought to surface some old memories about windshields and
gaskets I used while
putting my 2^nd Pantera, #3644 back together. That was the early 80s
and you were on your own for
the most part compared to the support we have today.
Regarding the gasket... it was in Italian wrapping and surprisingly
bought at a little British car parts
place here in San Antonio. It wasn't in Ford or DeTomaso wrapping.
The windshield came from a local Windshields America warehouse and it
had a large "made in South Africa"
label on it. Have you ever seen that before? Both fit and sealed
well.
Luckily the gasket on #6643 is still soft and flexible, so I'll reuse
it after extremely careful removal.
The original glass is looking tired. No cracks, chips or bullet
holes... just pitting form some high speed
time by a previous owner. 😊 It's functional but not show
quality. I wonder if there's any need for that.
FWIW...
Michael
Sent from [1]Mail for Windows 10
From: [2]Mike Drew via DeTomaso
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2016 12:22 PM
To: [3]fred at creekspeak.com; [4]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com;
[5]roland at jaeckel-partner.de; [6]detomaso at gmx.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Windshield Seal
In a message dated 12/18/16 9:50:20 AM, fred at creekspeak.com writes:
I need to get a windshield seal for my '72 Pantera. The one that was
recently installed didn't fit well at all. I was told there is a two
piece, but I
was told to get a one piece seal. Any suggestions for a source that has
worked for you. Please EMAIL me. I don't check this list every day.
Thanks in
advance.
>>>Fred,
Some of the USA vendors sell a windshield gasket that is truly awful.
AWFUL. Although it's sold as a one-piece gasket, in a telling
admission of
how bad it is, it comes with instructions offering suggestions
regarding the
various ways and places you can cut it apart and change it "if" it
doesn't
fit (and it never fits).
The good news is that quality seals made by the ORIGINAL supplier in
Italy
are still available, but the bad news is that the nominal cost is
greater.
However, if you are comparing the cost to install an expensive part
that
fits and works perfectly, versus the cost to fit one that requires
hours of
labor ($$$) and may or may not work when you're done, the quality
solution,
besides being better, is almost assuredly cheaper.
Unfortunately you've already gone down the other path, so now you will
have
to pay twice to get it fixed. But at least you should be happy with
the
finished result.
Here is a link to the original supplier in Italy:
[7]http://www.cicognaniguarnizioni.it/Detomaso-148/pantera-148-i05
(Note that they offer original rubber for ALL De Tomaso cars, even
Vallelungas!)
The site is available in either English or Italian; if it comes up in
Italian, click the British flag at the top right corner and it will
switch to
English.
The early 1971 Panteras used a complex two-piece windshield molding,
while
the 1972-on cars used a four-piece molding. The two setups use
different
rubber gaskets, so be sure to order the correct one. Cost is 280
Euros for
either one.
If you don't want to order over the web from a company in Italy, you
can
order from our buddy Roland Jackel in Hamburg, Germany. He imports
them from
Italy and sells them retail for the same price (last time I checked).
At
least that way you're buying from a friend. His website is
[8]www.detomaso.de
and his e-mail addresses are:
roland at jaeckel-partner.de
detomaso at gmx.com
Roland is a lurker on this forum too....
Mr. Fiat is (apparently) a retailer for this Italian company. They
advertise De Tomaso rubber and list all the models as well, which
suggests that
they are selling the Good Stuff and not the cheap stuff offered by the
USA
vendors. Located in Atlanta, they advertise Pantera rubber here:
[9]http://mrfiat.com/italian/de-tomaso/pantera.html
The cost is MUCH higher here. However, this reflects the costs of
shipping to the USA and taxes etc. Nevertheless, armed with the
knowledge of how
to buy them directly from European sources, I suspect it would be much
less
expensive to go that route, especially considering the Euro has fallen
against the dollar, so your dollar travels further today than it did a
few months
ago.
Your installer needs to know that the metal trim needs to be inserted
in
the rubber, and the rubber around the glass, BEFORE he attempts to
install the
windshield in the car. If he just wraps the glass with the gasket and
installs it, there's no real way to then add the trim afterwards, as
it's held
in place with the crush between the edge of the glass and the edge of
the
body.
Hopefully he uses some quality 3M windshield sealant during
installation.
My glass was installed dry (25 years ago), and it squeaks when driving
down
the road. I can actually reach up and feel the glass moving inside
the
gasket (my aftermarket windshield might be a tiny bit smaller than the
original?). I've never taken the time to fix it, but a bit of good
windshield
sealant would probably do the trick.
Note that Panteras are notorious for leaking at the bottom corners of
the
windshield, so special attention should be paid there.
And do NOT simply use conventional RTV silicone. Jack DeRyke has
reported
(and I fully believe) that normal RTV is slightly acidic, and can
actually
cause corrosion (and thus leaks) to form. 3M Windshield sealant is
The
Good Stuff. They are a bit proud of it ($$$) but you don't want to
cut
corners here.
Good luck, and please let us know how it turns out!
Mike
References
1. https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986
2. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
3. mailto:fred at creekspeak.com
4. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
5. mailto:roland at jaeckel-partner.de
6. mailto:detomaso at gmx.com
7. http://www.cicognaniguarnizioni.it/Detomaso-148/pantera-148-i05
8. http://www.detomaso.de/
9. http://mrfiat.com/italian/de-tomaso/pantera.html
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