[DeTomaso] Front Brake Bias, was Re: Fuel injection system and brakes question

Guido deTomaso guido_detomaso at prodigy.net
Thu Nov 5 21:32:12 EST 2015 

Was going to let it go, in the most recent newsletter was the umpteenth recommendation to essentially disable the rear brakes on what is an unusually rear weight biased car.  But I now see at least one person has a similar grasp of the situation as mine:
"You might think to simply remove the proportioning valve now for a free upgrade. Some have done this but in my opinion it is a very bad idea because it essentially disables the small amount of brake the stock rears do provide."
I don't know if it's a small amount or the right amount, but if you're locking the fronts before the rears, reducing the braking power at the rear isn't going to shorten your stopping distance.  Especially on a car with rear weight bias + low center of gravity.  This ought to be immediately, intuitively obvious.
Another questionable notion is that tires affect the needed front / rear bias, that the stock proportioning valve only works with the stock size tires.  Unless you're running a radically different compound / design / diameter front vs. rear, generally I don't see how the physics has changed - you cannot fool Mother Nature.
In any case, if you've disabled your rear brakes, don't follow me - let me follow you.
Thanks,
GD

       From: Scott Bell <scott at saccrestorations.net>
 To: 'Konrad Szwab' <kszwab at gmail.com> 
Cc: 'DeTomaso Mail List' <detomaso at poca.com> 
 Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 2:24 PM
 Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fuel injection system and brakes question
   
  Hi Konrad,


  There are 2 kits we sell that give the BIGGEST bang for the buck. They
  are an add-on Caliper to the rear that retains the stock Caliper as a
  parking brake. This kit is $499.95.


  Most customers tell me the improvement is unbelievable. This is because
  the stock rear brakes are completely undersized for the Pantera,
  especially for a car with wider rear tires. This kit also requires the
  removal of the stock proportioning valve. The removal of the valve
  increases the pressure to the front brakes giving you a free upgrade to
  the fronts at the same time. You might think to simply remove the
  proportioning valve now for a free upgrade. Some have done this but in
  my opinion it is a very bad idea because it essentially disables the
  small amount of brake the stock rears do provide. This is because the
  increased performance from the front caused the rears to not get enough
  pressure. This subject could be talked about a lot more but I will
  leave it there for now...


  The other inexpensive kit we sell, for $995.00,  is 4 Wilwood Calipers
  over stock rotors. This is another very popular kit. The main advantage
  for doing the fronts is the weight savings, the availability of
  multiple brake pad compounds, the availability of re-build parts in the
  future and the ability to build on the investment with compatibility to
  future upgrades, like bigger rotors, etc...


  The stock e-brake it retained for both of these kits. If it works today
  it can be left as your e-brake. BUT, it is heaving and ugly (if that
  matters to you). There are many options for an e-brake available. IPSCO
  makes a bolt on e-brake that works very well. Wilwood makes several
  cable actuated brakes that would work well and then there is the stock
  unit.


  I will be coming out with a new e-brake shortly that I will be adding
  to my existing kits for those that want to replace the ugly stock unit
  with a more modern unit that isn't too expensive. More to come on that
  later.


  Let me know if you have any questions.


  Take care, Scott


  Scott Bell

  SACC Restorations

  951-461-2190

  [1]http://www.saccrestorations.net




<snip>
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  >
  > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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  >

References

  1. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
  2. http://www.saccrestorations.net/pantera-caliper-upgrade-kit-for-stock-rotors/
  3. mailto:scott at saccrestorations.net
  4. http://www.saccrestorations.net/brake-kits-1/
  5. tel:951-461-2190
  6. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
  7. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
  8. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
  9. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
  10. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
  11. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  12. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  13. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
  14. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  15. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
  16. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
  17. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  18. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  19. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
  20. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  21. tel:912-232-9390
  22. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com


  23. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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-------------- next part --------------
   Was going to let it go, in the most recent newsletter was the umpteenth
   recommendation to essentially disable the rear brakes on what is an
   unusually rear weight biased car.  But I now see at least one person
   has a similar grasp of the situation as mine:
   "You might think to simply remove the proportioning valve now for a
   free upgrade. Some have done this but in my opinion it is a very bad
   idea because it essentially disables the small amount of brake the
   stock rears do provide."
   I don't know if it's a small amount or the right amount, but if you're
   locking the fronts before the rears, reducing the braking power at the
   rear isn't going to shorten your stopping distance.  Especially on a
   car with rear weight bias + low center of gravity.  This ought to be
   immediately, intuitively obvious.
   Another questionable notion is that tires affect the needed front /
   rear bias, that the stock proportioning valve only works with the stock
   size tires.  Unless you're running a radically different compound /
   design / diameter front vs. rear, generally I don't see how the physics
   has changed - you cannot fool Mother Nature.
   In any case, if you've disabled your rear brakes, don't follow me - let
   me follow you.
   Thanks,
   GD
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: Scott Bell <scott at saccrestorations.net>
   To: 'Konrad Szwab' <kszwab at gmail.com>
   Cc: 'DeTomaso Mail List' <detomaso at poca.com>
   Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 2:24 PM
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fuel injection system and brakes question
     Hi Konrad,
     There are 2 kits we sell that give the BIGGEST bang for the buck.
   They
     are an add-on Caliper to the rear that retains the stock Caliper as a
     parking brake. This kit is $499.95.
     Most customers tell me the improvement is unbelievable. This is
   because
     the stock rear brakes are completely undersized for the Pantera,
     especially for a car with wider rear tires. This kit also requires
   the
     removal of the stock proportioning valve. The removal of the valve
     increases the pressure to the front brakes giving you a free upgrade
   to
     the fronts at the same time. You might think to simply remove the
     proportioning valve now for a free upgrade. Some have done this but
   in
     my opinion it is a very bad idea because it essentially disables the
     small amount of brake the stock rears do provide. This is because the
     increased performance from the front caused the rears to not get
   enough
     pressure. This subject could be talked about a lot more but I will
     leave it there for now...
     The other inexpensive kit we sell, for $995.00,  is 4 Wilwood
   Calipers
     over stock rotors. This is another very popular kit. The main
   advantage
     for doing the fronts is the weight savings, the availability of
     multiple brake pad compounds, the availability of re-build parts in
   the
     future and the ability to build on the investment with compatibility
   to
     future upgrades, like bigger rotors, etc...
     The stock e-brake it retained for both of these kits. If it works
   today
     it can be left as your e-brake. BUT, it is heaving and ugly (if that
     matters to you). There are many options for an e-brake available.
   IPSCO
     makes a bolt on e-brake that works very well. Wilwood makes several
     cable actuated brakes that would work well and then there is the
   stock
     unit.
     I will be coming out with a new e-brake shortly that I will be adding
     to my existing kits for those that want to replace the ugly stock
   unit
     with a more modern unit that isn't too expensive. More to come on
   that
     later.
     Let me know if you have any questions.
     Take care, Scott
     Scott Bell
     SACC Restorations
     951-461-2190
     [1][1]http://www.saccrestorations.net
   <snip>
      > _______________________________________________
     >
     > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
     > Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
     > DeTomaso mailing list
     > [22][2]DeTomaso at poca.com
     > [23][3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     >
     > To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
   etc.)
     use
     > the links above.
     >
     >
   References
     1. [4]http://www.saccrestorations.net/
     2.
   [5]http://www.saccrestorations.net/pantera-caliper-upgrade-kit-for-stoc
   k-rotors/
     3. mailto:[6]scott at saccrestorations.net
     4. [7]http://www.saccrestorations.net/brake-kits-1/
     5. tel:951-461-2190
     6. [8]http://www.saccrestorations.net/
     7. mailto:[9]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
     8. mailto:[10]kszwab at gmail.com
     9. mailto:[11]michaelsavga at gmail.com
     10. mailto:[12]kszwab at gmail.com
     11. mailto:[13]DeTomaso at poca.com
     12. [14]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     13. [15]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
     14. mailto:[16]michael at michaelshortt.com
     15. mailto:[17]michaelsavga at gmail.com
     16. mailto:[18]kszwab at gmail.com
     17. mailto:[19]DeTomaso at poca.com
     18. [20]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     19. [21]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
     20. mailto:[22]michael at michaelshortt.com
     21. tel:912-232-9390
     22. mailto:[23]DeTomaso at poca.com
     23. [24]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   _______________________________________________
   Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
   Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
   DeTomaso mailing list
   [25]DeTomaso at poca.com
   [26]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
   use the links above.

References

   1. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
   2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
   4. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
   5. http://www.saccrestorations.net/pantera-caliper-upgrade-kit-for-stock-rotors/
   6. mailto:scott at saccrestorations.net
   7. http://www.saccrestorations.net/brake-kits-1/
   8. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
   9. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
  10. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
  11. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
  12. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
  13. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  14. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  15. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
  16. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  17. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
  18. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
  19. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  20. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  21. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
  22. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  23. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  24. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  25. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  26. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

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