[DeTomaso] Front Brake Bias, was Re: Fuel injection system and brakes question
B Hower
b.hower3400 at yahoo.com
Sat Nov 7 17:52:00 EST 2015
I hope no one has a Pantera proportioning valve fail as mine did. I had no front brakes, only rear. It occurred on very wet pavement, and caused car to swap ends and did thousands of dollars worth of damage. I will never trust another one.
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be ! )
From: Guido deTomaso <guido_detomaso at prodigy.net>
To: 'DeTomaso Mail List' <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:32 PM
Subject: [DeTomaso] Front Brake Bias, was Re: Fuel injection system and brakes question
Was going to let it go, in the most recent newsletter was the umpteenth
recommendation to essentially disable the rear brakes on what is an
unusually rear weight biased car. But I now see at least one person
has a similar grasp of the situation as mine:
"You might think to simply remove the proportioning valve now for a
free upgrade. Some have done this but in my opinion it is a very bad
idea because it essentially disables the small amount of brake the
stock rears do provide."
I don't know if it's a small amount or the right amount, but if you're
locking the fronts before the rears, reducing the braking power at the
rear isn't going to shorten your stopping distance. Especially on a
car with rear weight bias + low center of gravity. This ought to be
immediately, intuitively obvious.
Another questionable notion is that tires affect the needed front /
rear bias, that the stock proportioning valve only works with the stock
size tires. Unless you're running a radically different compound /
design / diameter front vs. rear, generally I don't see how the physics
has changed - you cannot fool Mother Nature.
In any case, if you've disabled your rear brakes, don't follow me - let
me follow you.
Thanks,
GD
__________________________________________________________________
From: Scott Bell <scott at saccrestorations.net>
To: 'Konrad Szwab' <kszwab at gmail.com>
Cc: 'DeTomaso Mail List' <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fuel injection system and brakes question
Hi Konrad,
There are 2 kits we sell that give the BIGGEST bang for the buck.
They
are an add-on Caliper to the rear that retains the stock Caliper as a
parking brake. This kit is $499.95.
Most customers tell me the improvement is unbelievable. This is
because
the stock rear brakes are completely undersized for the Pantera,
especially for a car with wider rear tires. This kit also requires
the
removal of the stock proportioning valve. The removal of the valve
increases the pressure to the front brakes giving you a free upgrade
to
the fronts at the same time. You might think to simply remove the
proportioning valve now for a free upgrade. Some have done this but
in
my opinion it is a very bad idea because it essentially disables the
small amount of brake the stock rears do provide. This is because the
increased performance from the front caused the rears to not get
enough
pressure. This subject could be talked about a lot more but I will
leave it there for now...
The other inexpensive kit we sell, for $995.00, is 4 Wilwood
Calipers
over stock rotors. This is another very popular kit. The main
advantage
for doing the fronts is the weight savings, the availability of
multiple brake pad compounds, the availability of re-build parts in
the
future and the ability to build on the investment with compatibility
to
future upgrades, like bigger rotors, etc...
The stock e-brake it retained for both of these kits. If it works
today
it can be left as your e-brake. BUT, it is heaving and ugly (if that
matters to you). There are many options for an e-brake available.
IPSCO
makes a bolt on e-brake that works very well. Wilwood makes several
cable actuated brakes that would work well and then there is the
stock
unit.
I will be coming out with a new e-brake shortly that I will be adding
to my existing kits for those that want to replace the ugly stock
unit
with a more modern unit that isn't too expensive. More to come on
that
later.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Take care, Scott
Scott Bell
SACC Restorations
951-461-2190
[1][1]http://www.saccrestorations.net
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References
1. [4]http://www.saccrestorations.net/
2.
[5]http://www.saccrestorations.net/pantera-caliper-upgrade-kit-for-stoc
k-rotors/
3. mailto:[6]scott at saccrestorations.net
4. [7]http://www.saccrestorations.net/brake-kits-1/
5. tel:951-461-2190
6. [8]http://www.saccrestorations.net/
7. mailto:[9]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
8. mailto:[10]kszwab at gmail.com
9. mailto:[11]michaelsavga at gmail.com
10. mailto:[12]kszwab at gmail.com
11. mailto:[13]DeTomaso at poca.com
12. [14]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
13. [15]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
14. mailto:[16]michael at michaelshortt.com
15. mailto:[17]michaelsavga at gmail.com
16. mailto:[18]kszwab at gmail.com
17. mailto:[19]DeTomaso at poca.com
18. [20]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
19. [21]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
20. mailto:[22]michael at michaelshortt.com
21. tel:912-232-9390
22. mailto:[23]DeTomaso at poca.com
23. [24]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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References
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3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
4. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
5. http://www.saccrestorations.net/pantera-caliper-upgrade-kit-for-stock-rotors/
6. mailto:scott at saccrestorations.net
7. http://www.saccrestorations.net/brake-kits-1/
8. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
9. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
10. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
11. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
12. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
13. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
14. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
15. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
16. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
17. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
18. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
19. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
20. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
21. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
22. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
23. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
24. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
25. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
26. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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-------------- next part --------------
I hope no one has a Pantera proportioning valve fail as mine did. I had
no front brakes, only rear. It occurred on very wet pavement, and
caused car to swap ends and did thousands of dollars worth of damage. I
will never trust another one.
Bud #3400 ( Drive it like there is no tomorrow -- for there may not be
! )
__________________________________________________________________
From: Guido deTomaso <guido_detomaso at prodigy.net>
To: 'DeTomaso Mail List' <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 8:32 PM
Subject: [DeTomaso] Front Brake Bias, was Re: Fuel injection system and
brakes question
Was going to let it go, in the most recent newsletter was the
umpteenth
recommendation to essentially disable the rear brakes on what is an
unusually rear weight biased car. But I now see at least one person
has a similar grasp of the situation as mine:
"You might think to simply remove the proportioning valve now for a
free upgrade. Some have done this but in my opinion it is a very bad
idea because it essentially disables the small amount of brake the
stock rears do provide."
I don't know if it's a small amount or the right amount, but if
you're
locking the fronts before the rears, reducing the braking power at
the
rear isn't going to shorten your stopping distance. Especially on a
car with rear weight bias + low center of gravity. This ought to be
immediately, intuitively obvious.
Another questionable notion is that tires affect the needed front /
rear bias, that the stock proportioning valve only works with the
stock
size tires. Unless you're running a radically different compound /
design / diameter front vs. rear, generally I don't see how the
physics
has changed - you cannot fool Mother Nature.
In any case, if you've disabled your rear brakes, don't follow me -
let
me follow you.
Thanks,
GD
__________________________________________________________________
From: Scott Bell <[1]scott at saccrestorations.net>
To: 'Konrad Szwab' <[2]kszwab at gmail.com>
Cc: 'DeTomaso Mail List' <[3]detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Fuel injection system and brakes question
Hi Konrad,
There are 2 kits we sell that give the BIGGEST bang for the buck.
They
are an add-on Caliper to the rear that retains the stock Caliper as
a
parking brake. This kit is $499.95.
Most customers tell me the improvement is unbelievable. This is
because
the stock rear brakes are completely undersized for the Pantera,
especially for a car with wider rear tires. This kit also requires
the
removal of the stock proportioning valve. The removal of the valve
increases the pressure to the front brakes giving you a free
upgrade
to
the fronts at the same time. You might think to simply remove the
proportioning valve now for a free upgrade. Some have done this but
in
my opinion it is a very bad idea because it essentially disables
the
small amount of brake the stock rears do provide. This is because
the
increased performance from the front caused the rears to not get
enough
pressure. This subject could be talked about a lot more but I will
leave it there for now...
The other inexpensive kit we sell, for $995.00, is 4 Wilwood
Calipers
over stock rotors. This is another very popular kit. The main
advantage
for doing the fronts is the weight savings, the availability of
multiple brake pad compounds, the availability of re-build parts in
the
future and the ability to build on the investment with
compatibility
to
future upgrades, like bigger rotors, etc...
The stock e-brake it retained for both of these kits. If it works
today
it can be left as your e-brake. BUT, it is heaving and ugly (if
that
matters to you). There are many options for an e-brake available.
IPSCO
makes a bolt on e-brake that works very well. Wilwood makes several
cable actuated brakes that would work well and then there is the
stock
unit.
I will be coming out with a new e-brake shortly that I will be
adding
to my existing kits for those that want to replace the ugly stock
unit
with a more modern unit that isn't too expensive. More to come on
that
later.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Take care, Scott
Scott Bell
SACC Restorations
951-461-2190
[1][1][4]http://www.saccrestorations.net
<snip>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
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> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
use
> the links above.
>
>
References
1. [4][7]http://www.saccrestorations.net/
2.
[5][8]http://www.saccrestorations.net/pantera-caliper-upgrade-kit-for-s
toc
k-rotors/
3. mailto:[6][9]scott at saccrestorations.net
4. [7][10]http://www.saccrestorations.net/brake-kits-1/
5. tel:951-461-2190
6. [8][11]http://www.saccrestorations.net/
7. mailto:[9][12]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
8. mailto:[10][13]kszwab at gmail.com
9. mailto:[11][14]michaelsavga at gmail.com
10. mailto:[12][15]kszwab at gmail.com
11. mailto:[13][16]DeTomaso at poca.com
12. [14][17]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
13. [15][18]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
14. mailto:[16][19]michael at michaelshortt.com
15. mailto:[17][20]michaelsavga at gmail.com
16. mailto:[18][21]kszwab at gmail.com
17. mailto:[19][22]DeTomaso at poca.com
18. [20][23]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
19. [21][24]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
20. mailto:[22][25]michael at michaelshortt.com
21. tel:912-232-9390
22. mailto:[23][26]DeTomaso at poca.com
23. [24][27]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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2. mailto:[31]DeTomaso at poca.com
3. [32]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
4. [33]http://www.saccrestorations.net/
5.
[34]http://www.saccrestorations.net/pantera-caliper-upgrade-kit-for-sto
ck-rotors/
6. mailto:[35]scott at saccrestorations.net
7. [36]http://www.saccrestorations.net/brake-kits-1/
8. [37]http://www.saccrestorations.net/
9. mailto:[38]detomaso-bounces at poca.com
10. mailto:[39]kszwab at gmail.com
11. mailto:[40]michaelsavga at gmail.com
12. mailto:[41]kszwab at gmail.com
13. mailto:[42]DeTomaso at poca.com
14. [43]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
15. [44]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
16. mailto:[45]michael at michaelshortt.com
17. mailto:[46]michaelsavga at gmail.com
18. mailto:[47]kszwab at gmail.com
19. mailto:[48]DeTomaso at poca.com
20. [49]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
21. [50]http://www.michaelshortt.com/
22. mailto:[51]michael at michaelshortt.com
23. mailto:[52]DeTomaso at poca.com
24. [53]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
25. mailto:[54]DeTomaso at poca.com
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References
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5. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
6. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
7. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
8. http://www.saccrestorations.net/pantera-caliper-upgrade-kit-for-stoc
9. mailto:scott at saccrestorations.net
10. http://www.saccrestorations.net/brake-kits-1/
11. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
12. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
13. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
14. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
15. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
16. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
17. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
18. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
19. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
20. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
21. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
22. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
23. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
24. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
25. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
26. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
27. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
28. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
29. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
30. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
31. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
32. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
33. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
34. http://www.saccrestorations.net/pantera-caliper-upgrade-kit-for-stock-rotors/
35. mailto:scott at saccrestorations.net
36. http://www.saccrestorations.net/brake-kits-1/
37. http://www.saccrestorations.net/
38. mailto:detomaso-bounces at poca.com
39. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
40. mailto:michaelsavga at gmail.com
41. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
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43. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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48. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
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