[DeTomaso] 10x15 Campagnolo Pantera GTS wheels

[Julian Kift]

Agreed that Ed should be commended in taking on such an endeavor, hopefully he will get the minimum number of people step up and commit so that the manufacture can proceed.
Julian

From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 00:25:55 -0400
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 10x15 Campagnolo Pantera GTS wheels
To: julian_kift at hotmail.com; guson at home.se
CC: detomaso at poca.com



In a message dated 6/10/15 15 16 58, julian_kift at hotmail.com writes:





Would you be happy having mismatching wheels?



>>>Well, I'm a bit unusual in that regard in that I took extra lengths to make sure I had 1973-74 wheels to match my 10-inch rears.   But most owners of '71-72 cars don't seem to care that much, and I'd guess that more cars have Pre-L front wheels with 10-inch wheels than don't.





> I wouldn't pay $1,700 each for the 10x15, they don't fit a wide body rear...... but I would want to know that front and rear are going to look aesthetically the same when I'm done if I was getting them, that's all.



>>>Which is why you would do what I did, and seek out '73-74 8-inch wheels if you didn't already have them.   Of course, most people don't pick up on the subtle differences and don't care as much, and are quite happy with Pre-L wheels on the front.



>Pricing is an interesting discussion; it's a similar situation with the GP4 wheels; new wheels cast because of the exorbitant price of used ones (driven solely by supply and demand) and yet the new castings are more expensive than used?



>>>Well, the cost to buy an existing something has no bearing on the cost to produce a new something.   However, it only becomes economically viable when the cost of the existing something approaches what the new something would sell for.



GT5 wheels have always been expensive.   When I was shopping for my Pantera in 1989, I toyed with the idea of a GT5, but would have insisted on proper wheels for it.   When I discovered that (in 1989) they were selling for about $1300 each, I quickly dismissed that idea.   Since then, the cost of those wheels has only gone up.   I've had several sets pass through my hands as I acted as intermediary between seller and buyer.   I was amazed when the first set went for $6000, then the second one went for $7500, and they have gone up since then.



So the new-production wheels at 1800 Euros are only slightly more expensive (if at all) compared to what would be reasonable (to the extent any such purchase can be considered reasonable) to pay for used wheels, whose condition will always be somewhat unknown.   Marvic is a fantastic company and for your money, you're getting a known good (make that GREAT) quantity.   The fact that the rears are in the more desirable 14x15 (we're still talking about GT5, Gr4-spec wheels here) is that much better.   I've seen a pair of the very rare original 14x15 wheels sell for $8000, with no fronts included!



When it comes to the 15x10 wheels for the rear of the narrow-body cars, the same story applies.   For years they would trade in the $750-1000 each neighborhood.   Only recently have they gone up substantially.   Last week a friend bought two complete sets of wheels (8s and 10s) with tires and paid $8000, and he feels like he got a great deal.   I have to agree.



But with 15x8 wheels to match the new 15x10 wheels available for $100-200 each all day long, it would be a fool's errand to tool up to produce them new.



I, for one, applaud the efforts of Patrick Hals to put the Gr4/GT5 wheels back into production, and urge people to support Ed in his most noble effort too.   I've been doing what I can to help him out (doing everything short of committing to buy a pair for myself, since I already have two pairs).   If you've always wanted a set of these wheels and haven't been able to find them, it seems like a no-brainer to step up and put yourself on the list now....



Mike

 		 	   		  
-------------- next part --------------
   Agreed that Ed should be commended in taking on such an endeavor,
   hopefully he will get the minimum number of people step up and commit
   so that the manufacture can proceed.
   Julian
     __________________________________________________________________

   From: MikeLDrew at aol.com
   Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 00:25:55 -0400
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 10x15 Campagnolo Pantera GTS wheels
   To: julian_kift at hotmail.com; guson at home.se
   CC: detomaso at poca.com
   In a message dated 6/10/15 15 16 58, julian_kift at hotmail.com writes:

     Would you be happy having mismatching wheels?

   >>>Well, I'm a bit unusual in that regard in that I took extra lengths
   to make sure I had 1973-74 wheels to match my 10-inch rears.  But most
   owners of '71-72 cars don't seem to care that much, and I'd guess that
   more cars have Pre-L front wheels with 10-inch wheels than don't.

     > I wouldn't pay $1,700 each for the 10x15, they don't fit a wide
     body rear...... but I would want to know that front and rear are
     going to look aesthetically the same when I'm done if I was getting
     them, that's all.

   >>>Which is why you would do what I did, and seek out '73-74 8-inch
   wheels if you didn't already have them.  Of course, most people don't
   pick up on the subtle differences and don't care as much, and are quite
   happy with Pre-L wheels on the front.

     >Pricing is an interesting discussion; it's a similar situation with
     the GP4 wheels; new wheels cast because of the exorbitant price of
     used ones (driven solely by supply and demand) and yet the new
     castings are more expensive than used?

   >>>Well, the cost to buy an existing something has no bearing on the
   cost to produce a new something.  However, it only becomes economically
   viable when the cost of the existing something approaches what the new
   something would sell for.
   GT5 wheels have always been expensive.  When I was shopping for my
   Pantera in 1989, I toyed with the idea of a GT5, but would have
   insisted on proper wheels for it.  When I discovered that (in 1989)
   they were selling for about $1300 each, I quickly dismissed that idea.
   Since then, the cost of those wheels has only gone up.  I've had
   several sets pass through my hands as I acted as intermediary between
   seller and buyer.  I was amazed when the first set went for $6000, then
   the second one went for $7500, and they have gone up since then.
   So the new-production wheels at 1800 Euros are only slightly more
   expensive (if at all) compared to what would be reasonable (to the
   extent any such purchase can be considered reasonable) to pay for used
   wheels, whose condition will always be somewhat unknown.  Marvic is a
   fantastic company and for your money, you're getting a known good (make
   that GREAT) quantity.  The fact that the rears are in the more
   desirable 14x15 (we're still talking about GT5, Gr4-spec wheels here)
   is that much better.  I've seen a pair of the very rare original 14x15
   wheels sell for $8000, with no fronts included!
   When it comes to the 15x10 wheels for the rear of the narrow-body cars,
   the same story applies.  For years they would trade in the $750-1000
   each neighborhood.  Only recently have they gone up substantially.
   Last week a friend bought two complete sets of wheels (8s and 10s) with
   tires and paid $8000, and he feels like he got a great deal.  I have to
   agree.
   But with 15x8 wheels to match the new 15x10 wheels available for
   $100-200 each all day long, it would be a fool's errand to tool up to
   produce them new.
   I, for one, applaud the efforts of Patrick Hals to put the Gr4/GT5
   wheels back into production, and urge people to support Ed in his most
   noble effort too.  I've been doing what I can to help him out (doing
   everything short of committing to buy a pair for myself, since I
   already have two pairs).  If you've always wanted a set of these wheels
   and haven't been able to find them, it seems like a no-brainer to step
   up and put yourself on the list now....
   Mike