[DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions

Will Kooiman will.kooiman at gmail.com
Mon Nov 3 16:04:08 EST 2014


It could be a lot of things, but I would put money on a plugged fuel
filter.

They are cheap, and it's probably time to change it anyway.

--
Will





On 11/3/14 10:09 AM, "michael at michaelshortt.com"
<michael at michaelshortt.com> wrote:

>   Water in the dist cap sounds more likely.
>
>   Michael
>
>   On Nov 3, 2014 8:48 AM, "Charles McCall" <[1]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
>   wrote:
>
>     A  A Thanks Jeff. It isn't unusually humid here and the car is
>     always stored
>     A  A indoors. As I was writing this, however, it occured to me that
>     it isn't
>     A  A imposible that some wA!ter may have entered the air cleaner and
>     dropped
>     A  A into the carb while washing the car. I'm usually pretty careful
>     with
>     A  A where I aim the hose, but I couldn't swear that the engine
>     stayed dry,
>     A  A or when opening the decklid when wet, some wA!ter may have run
>     off near
>     A  A the cleaner...
>     A  A A
>     A  A I will take the air cleaner off and see if I see a healthy
>     squirt from
>     A  A the acclerator pump. I don't think it would be fuel pump or
>     clogged
>     A  A fuel filter, as it stumbles under trailing throttle as well, it
>     it can
>     A  A provide enough fuel for sustainted 115mph running
>     A  A A
>     A  A Could it be electrical? My last MSD 6AL gave some really weird
>     symptoms
>     A  A that I thought were carb-related before I changed the box and
>     all my
>     A  A problems went away. I'll go step-by-step
>     A  A On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 12:55 AM, <[1][2]jgkrenton at comcast.net>
>     wrote:
>     A  A Charlie:
>     A  A How's the weather??
>     A  A Your problem sort of sounds like it could be water in the fuel
>     to me.A
>     A  A Just a drop can be a problem and once you get it in there, it
>     can hang
>     A  A around a long time.A
>     A  A As already mentioned, do the usual things to make sure you
>     didn't
>     A  A "introduce" the problem during the recent tuning.AA  Take the
>     air
>     A  A cleaner off and see if that makes any difference.AA  Check the
>     timing
>     A  A (yes, a pain on the Pantera). Make sure the accelerator pump is
>     A  A squirting. Check the fuel pressure/fuel pump etc.AA  I have
>     also been
>     A  A recently bit by a bad coil and a bad fuel pump.AA  Don't rule
>     anything
>     A  A out.
>     A  A Then dump some "fuel dryer" in the tank and run it a bit to see
>     if that
>     A  A helps.AA  Here in Seattle, water in the fuel is a common
>     problem.
>     A  A The fuel dryer should help, but there is also the tried and
>     true "rag
>     A  A tune".
>     A  A You have to be careful with this one, but the idea is to rev
>     the engine
>     A  A a bit by hand with the air cleaner off.A AA  Then when the
>     engine is
>     A  A reving a bit, maybe 2500 RPM, shove a big rag over the carb for
>     just a
>     A  A second. (The air-horns, choke, secondary venturies will keep
>     the rag
>     A  A from being sucked into the engine). The rag acts like a massive
>     choke
>     A  A and the engine will smoke and die if you leave the rag there
>     for more
>     A  A than a few seconds.AA  But what this does is raise the full
>     engine
>     A  A vacuum up above the throttle plates and jets/ bleeds to the
>     A  A air-horn/rag level.AA  This "extra" vacuum will draw any water
>     out of
>     A  A the jets/bleeds where the "normal" vacuum often is not strong
>     enough to
>     A  A pull any water out of the jets.
>     A  A If your carb is a Holley, you can pull the float chambers off
>     too and
>     A  A make sure they don't have water in them....
>     A  A Good luck.
>     A  A Jeff/2467
>     A  A
>     A __________________________________________________________________
>     A  A From: "McCall, Charles" <[2][3]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
>     A  A To: "Mark Charlton" <[3][4]pantera01826 at rogers.com>
>     A  A Cc: "DeTomaso Mail List" <[4][5]detomaso at poca.com>
>     A  A Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2014 11:46:48 AM
>     A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
>     A  A Thanks Mark, but I used 3 full tanks of gas in the past 2 days
>     :-o
>     A  A The problem has gotten slowly worse, I think.
>     A  A -----Original Message-----
>     A  A From: Mark Charlton [mailto:[5][6]pantera01826 at rogers.com]
>     A  A Sent: domingo, 2 de noviembre de 2014 20:43
>     A  A To: Charles McCall
>     A  A Cc: DeTomaso Mail List
>     A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
>     A  A Charlie,
>     A  A I had a very similar experience with my car during a long tour
>     in
>     A  A western
>     A  A Canada. We checked everything and concluded it must be a carb
>     issue.
>     A  A After a
>     A  A full tear-down of the carb revealed nothing wrong at all, I
>     filled the
>     A  A car
>     A  A (it was 3/4 empty) and the car ran fine again. We concluded
>     that a
>     A  A stale
>     A  A batch of 94 octane gas (not commonly available) caused the
>     issue. With
>     A  A any
>     A  A luck that will be your case too I hope.
>     A  A Mark Charlton
>     A  A [6][7]pantera01826 at rogers.com
>     A  A On Nov 2, 2014, at 2:20 PM, Charles McCall
>     <[7][8]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
>     A  A wrote:
>     A  A > I haven't checked timing, but wouldn't that make the engine
>     run hot?
>     A  A >
>     A  A > Would that explain the stumble? It might explain why it
>     doesn't feel
>     A  A as
>     A  A > crisp as it should
>     A  A >
>     A  A > -----Original Message-----
>     A  A > From: thomas [mailto:[8][9]thomas at hax.se]
>     A  A > Sent: domingo, 2 de noviembre de 2014 20:18
>     A  A > To: Charles McCall
>     A  A > Cc: <[9][10]detomaso at poca.com>
>     A  A > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for
>     suggestions
>     A  A >
>     A  A > The distributor gear pin?
>     A  A >
>     A  A > Checked timing?
>     A  A >
>     A  A >
>     A  A >> 2 nov 2014 kl. 20:13 skrev Charles McCall
>     A  A <[10][11]charlesmccall at gmail.com>:
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >> A Hi all
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >> A I just got back from a Supercar event in northern Spain
>     with 35
>     A  A cars
>     A  A >> A attending - Lambo, Ferrari, Viper, Porsche, and, as usual,
>     a lone
>     A  A >> A DeTomaso!
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >> A The highlight for me without a doubt was an 8-minute burst
>     on the
>     A  A >> A highway with the police clearing the way for us, cruising
>     at a
>     A  A steady
>     A  A >> A GPS-indicated 180 k/hr in a 35 car convoy... the people
>     out for a
>     A  A >> A Sunday drive must have had their minds boggled...
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >> A Anyway, my engine is not happy. This morning in the hotel
>     parking
>     A  A lot I
>     A  A >> A really thought that we'd have to skip today's event
>     because it
>     A  A wouldn't
>     A  A >> A start and didn't sound like it was even thinking about
>     starting.
>     A  A Took
>     A  A >> A probably 5 minutes of crank-wait-crank-wait before it
>     fired.
>     A  A Yesterday
>     A  A >> A at the gas station it took 2-3 minutes to start, something
>     that
>     A  A has
>     A  A >> A never, ever happened before. It is really hard to describe
>     the
>     A  A problem
>     A  A >> A so much of it is "feel", but I'll do my best.
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >> A A few weeks ago I noticed that the engine would tend to
>     stumble if
>     A  A I
>     A  A >> A would floor the throttle, then clear its throat and pull.
>     For
>     A  A example,
>     A  A >> A I like to heel-and-toe, just because, and when blipping
>     the
>     A  A throttle it
>     A  A >> A would stumble instead of rev. The engine also felt a
>     little
>     A  A rougher, as
>     A  A >> A though it vibrated more than I remembered it. I don't
>     remember if
>     A  A this
>     A  A >> A was before or after I did a short tune-up, by adjusting
>     the valve
>     A  A lash
>     A  A >> A (I have mechanical lifters), and cleaning the K&N air
>     filter by
>     A  A >> A applying K&N filter oil, etc. or if it is irrelevant. So I
>     was
>     A  A messing
>     A  A >> A around in the engine bay recently...
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >> A This weekend the engine felt considerably worse. It felt
>     like it
>     A  A would
>     A  A >> A stumble under partial throttle as well. It would stumble a
>     little
>     A  A bit
>     A  A >> A under trailing throttle going downhill as well, so I don't
>     think
>     A  A it is
>     A  A >> A a clogged fuel filter.
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >> A Oil temp is perfect. Oil pressure is perfect. Water temp
>     is
>     A  A perfect.
>     A  A >> A The engine idles perfectly. But if you floor the gas from
>     idle,
>     A  A it'll
>     A  A >> A stall. The engine doesn't feel crisp, it feels bloated and
>     soft,
>     A  A if
>     A  A >> A that makes sense. It feels rough, and it feels like it
>     A  A occasionally
>     A  A >> A stumbles under constant throttle at highway speed. It
>     pulls hard
>     A  A when
>     A  A >> A accelerating, but I don't think as hard as it used to, or
>     as high
>     A  A (I
>     A  A >> A have a 6500 rpm limiting chip in the MSD that it used to
>     pull very
>     A  A >> A easily to).
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >> A Suggestions for where to begin looking? And other info
>     that would
>     A  A help
>     A  A >> A in troubleshooting?
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >> !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!
>     A  A >> _______________________________________________
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>     A  A >>
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>     A  A >> [11][12]DeTomaso at poca.com
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>     A  A >>
>     A  A >>
>     A  A >> !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!
>     A  A >
>     A  A >
>     A  A > _______________________________________________
>     A  A >
>     A  A > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>     A  A >
>     A  A > DeTomaso mailing list
>     A  A > [13][14]DeTomaso at poca.com
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>     References
>     A  A 1. mailto:[18]jgkrenton at comcast.net
>     A  A 2. mailto:[19]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>     A  A 3. mailto:[20]pantera01826 at rogers.com
>     A  A 4. mailto:[21]detomaso at poca.com
>     A  A 5. mailto:[22]pantera01826 at rogers.com
>     A  A 6. mailto:[23]pantera01826 at rogers.com
>     A  A 7. mailto:[24]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>     A  A 8. mailto:[25]thomas at hax.se
>     A  A 9. mailto:[26]detomaso at poca.com
>     A  10. mailto:[27]charlesmccall at gmail.com
>     A  11. mailto:[28]DeTomaso at poca.com
>     A  12. [29]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>     A  13. mailto:[30]DeTomaso at poca.com
>     A  14. [31]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>     A  15. mailto:[32]DeTomaso at poca.com
>     A  16. [33]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>     _______________________________________________
>     Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>     DeTomaso mailing list
>     [34]DeTomaso at poca.com
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>
>References
>
>   1. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>   2. mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net
>   3. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>   4. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
>   5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   6. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
>   7. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
>   8. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>   9. mailto:thomas at hax.se
>  10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>  11. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>  12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  14. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  15. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  16. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  17. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  18. mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net
>  19. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>  20. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
>  21. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>  22. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
>  23. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
>  24. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>  25. mailto:thomas at hax.se
>  26. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>  27. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
>  28. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  29. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  30. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  31. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  32. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  33. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>  34. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>  35. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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