[DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
Janne Mäki-Petäjä
janne.makipetaja at gmail.com
Tue Nov 4 01:28:38 EST 2014
I'd first suspect the electricals as well. It should start normally with
the gas in the fuel bowls. Easy to check the primary bowl fuel level though.
Water in the dizzy cap, or plug wire(s) gone bad would be good first
steps. Plug wire resistance is easily measured with multimeter.
I've had similar weird MSD problem once, when the distributor wire had
been laying on the block and worn through the insulator. Grounded the
dizzy signal occasionally, when it moved around.
-Janne
3.11.2014 16.09, michael at michaelshortt.com kirjoitti:
> Water in the dist cap sounds more likely.
>
> Michael
>
> On Nov 3, 2014 8:48 AM, "Charles McCall" <[1]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> A A Thanks Jeff. It isn't unusually humid here and the car is
> always stored
> A A indoors. As I was writing this, however, it occured to me that
> it isn't
> A A imposible that some wA!ter may have entered the air cleaner and
> dropped
> A A into the carb while washing the car. I'm usually pretty careful
> with
> A A where I aim the hose, but I couldn't swear that the engine
> stayed dry,
> A A or when opening the decklid when wet, some wA!ter may have run
> off near
> A A the cleaner...
> A A A
> A A I will take the air cleaner off and see if I see a healthy
> squirt from
> A A the acclerator pump. I don't think it would be fuel pump or
> clogged
> A A fuel filter, as it stumbles under trailing throttle as well, it
> it can
> A A provide enough fuel for sustainted 115mph running
> A A A
> A A Could it be electrical? My last MSD 6AL gave some really weird
> symptoms
> A A that I thought were carb-related before I changed the box and
> all my
> A A problems went away. I'll go step-by-step
> A A On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 12:55 AM, <[1][2]jgkrenton at comcast.net>
> wrote:
> A A Charlie:
> A A How's the weather??
> A A Your problem sort of sounds like it could be water in the fuel
> to me.A
> A A Just a drop can be a problem and once you get it in there, it
> can hang
> A A around a long time.A
> A A As already mentioned, do the usual things to make sure you
> didn't
> A A "introduce" the problem during the recent tuning.AA Take the
> air
> A A cleaner off and see if that makes any difference.AA Check the
> timing
> A A (yes, a pain on the Pantera). Make sure the accelerator pump is
> A A squirting. Check the fuel pressure/fuel pump etc.AA I have
> also been
> A A recently bit by a bad coil and a bad fuel pump.AA Don't rule
> anything
> A A out.
> A A Then dump some "fuel dryer" in the tank and run it a bit to see
> if that
> A A helps.AA Here in Seattle, water in the fuel is a common
> problem.
> A A The fuel dryer should help, but there is also the tried and
> true "rag
> A A tune".
> A A You have to be careful with this one, but the idea is to rev
> the engine
> A A a bit by hand with the air cleaner off.A AA Then when the
> engine is
> A A reving a bit, maybe 2500 RPM, shove a big rag over the carb for
> just a
> A A second. (The air-horns, choke, secondary venturies will keep
> the rag
> A A from being sucked into the engine). The rag acts like a massive
> choke
> A A and the engine will smoke and die if you leave the rag there
> for more
> A A than a few seconds.AA But what this does is raise the full
> engine
> A A vacuum up above the throttle plates and jets/ bleeds to the
> A A air-horn/rag level.AA This "extra" vacuum will draw any water
> out of
> A A the jets/bleeds where the "normal" vacuum often is not strong
> enough to
> A A pull any water out of the jets.
> A A If your carb is a Holley, you can pull the float chambers off
> too and
> A A make sure they don't have water in them....
> A A Good luck.
> A A Jeff/2467
> A A
> A __________________________________________________________________
> A A From: "McCall, Charles" <[2][3]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> A A To: "Mark Charlton" <[3][4]pantera01826 at rogers.com>
> A A Cc: "DeTomaso Mail List" <[4][5]detomaso at poca.com>
> A A Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2014 11:46:48 AM
> A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
> A A Thanks Mark, but I used 3 full tanks of gas in the past 2 days
> :-o
> A A The problem has gotten slowly worse, I think.
> A A -----Original Message-----
> A A From: Mark Charlton [mailto:[5][6]pantera01826 at rogers.com]
> A A Sent: domingo, 2 de noviembre de 2014 20:43
> A A To: Charles McCall
> A A Cc: DeTomaso Mail List
> A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
> A A Charlie,
> A A I had a very similar experience with my car during a long tour
> in
> A A western
> A A Canada. We checked everything and concluded it must be a carb
> issue.
> A A After a
> A A full tear-down of the carb revealed nothing wrong at all, I
> filled the
> A A car
> A A (it was 3/4 empty) and the car ran fine again. We concluded
> that a
> A A stale
> A A batch of 94 octane gas (not commonly available) caused the
> issue. With
> A A any
> A A luck that will be your case too I hope.
> A A Mark Charlton
> A A [6][7]pantera01826 at rogers.com
> A A On Nov 2, 2014, at 2:20 PM, Charles McCall
> <[7][8]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
> A A wrote:
> A A > I haven't checked timing, but wouldn't that make the engine
> run hot?
> A A >
> A A > Would that explain the stumble? It might explain why it
> doesn't feel
> A A as
> A A > crisp as it should
> A A >
> A A > -----Original Message-----
> A A > From: thomas [mailto:[8][9]thomas at hax.se]
> A A > Sent: domingo, 2 de noviembre de 2014 20:18
> A A > To: Charles McCall
> A A > Cc: <[9][10]detomaso at poca.com>
> A A > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for
> suggestions
> A A >
> A A > The distributor gear pin?
> A A >
> A A > Checked timing?
> A A >
> A A >
> A A >> 2 nov 2014 kl. 20:13 skrev Charles McCall
> A A <[10][11]charlesmccall at gmail.com>:
> A A >>
> A A >> A Hi all
> A A >>
> A A >>
> A A >> A I just got back from a Supercar event in northern Spain
> with 35
> A A cars
> A A >> A attending - Lambo, Ferrari, Viper, Porsche, and, as usual,
> a lone
> A A >> A DeTomaso!
> A A >>
> A A >>
> A A >> A The highlight for me without a doubt was an 8-minute burst
> on the
> A A >> A highway with the police clearing the way for us, cruising
> at a
> A A steady
> A A >> A GPS-indicated 180 k/hr in a 35 car convoy... the people
> out for a
> A A >> A Sunday drive must have had their minds boggled...
> A A >>
> A A >>
> A A >> A Anyway, my engine is not happy. This morning in the hotel
> parking
> A A lot I
> A A >> A really thought that we'd have to skip today's event
> because it
> A A wouldn't
> A A >> A start and didn't sound like it was even thinking about
> starting.
> A A Took
> A A >> A probably 5 minutes of crank-wait-crank-wait before it
> fired.
> A A Yesterday
> A A >> A at the gas station it took 2-3 minutes to start, something
> that
> A A has
> A A >> A never, ever happened before. It is really hard to describe
> the
> A A problem
> A A >> A so much of it is "feel", but I'll do my best.
> A A >>
> A A >>
> A A >> A A few weeks ago I noticed that the engine would tend to
> stumble if
> A A I
> A A >> A would floor the throttle, then clear its throat and pull.
> For
> A A example,
> A A >> A I like to heel-and-toe, just because, and when blipping
> the
> A A throttle it
> A A >> A would stumble instead of rev. The engine also felt a
> little
> A A rougher, as
> A A >> A though it vibrated more than I remembered it. I don't
> remember if
> A A this
> A A >> A was before or after I did a short tune-up, by adjusting
> the valve
> A A lash
> A A >> A (I have mechanical lifters), and cleaning the K&N air
> filter by
> A A >> A applying K&N filter oil, etc. or if it is irrelevant. So I
> was
> A A messing
> A A >> A around in the engine bay recently...
> A A >>
> A A >>
> A A >> A This weekend the engine felt considerably worse. It felt
> like it
> A A would
> A A >> A stumble under partial throttle as well. It would stumble a
> little
> A A bit
> A A >> A under trailing throttle going downhill as well, so I don't
> think
> A A it is
> A A >> A a clogged fuel filter.
> A A >>
> A A >>
> A A >> A Oil temp is perfect. Oil pressure is perfect. Water temp
> is
> A A perfect.
> A A >> A The engine idles perfectly. But if you floor the gas from
> idle,
> A A it'll
> A A >> A stall. The engine doesn't feel crisp, it feels bloated and
> soft,
> A A if
> A A >> A that makes sense. It feels rough, and it feels like it
> A A occasionally
> A A >> A stumbles under constant throttle at highway speed. It
> pulls hard
> A A when
> A A >> A accelerating, but I don't think as hard as it used to, or
> as high
> A A (I
> A A >> A have a 6500 rpm limiting chip in the MSD that it used to
> pull very
> A A >> A easily to).
> A A >>
> A A >>
> A A >> A Suggestions for where to begin looking? And other info
> that would
> A A help
> A A >> A in troubleshooting?
> A A >>
> A A >>
> A A >> !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!
> A A >> _______________________________________________
> A A >>
> A A >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A A >>
> A A >> DeTomaso mailing list
> A A >> [11][12]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A >> [12][13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A A >>
> A A >>
> A A >> !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!
> A A >
> A A >
> A A > _______________________________________________
> A A >
> A A > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A A >
> A A > DeTomaso mailing list
> A A > [13][14]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A > [14][15]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A A _______________________________________________
> A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A A DeTomaso mailing list
> A A [15][16]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A [16][17]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> References
> A A 1. mailto:[18]jgkrenton at comcast.net
> A A 2. mailto:[19]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> A A 3. mailto:[20]pantera01826 at rogers.com
> A A 4. mailto:[21]detomaso at poca.com
> A A 5. mailto:[22]pantera01826 at rogers.com
> A A 6. mailto:[23]pantera01826 at rogers.com
> A A 7. mailto:[24]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> A A 8. mailto:[25]thomas at hax.se
> A A 9. mailto:[26]detomaso at poca.com
> A 10. mailto:[27]charlesmccall at gmail.com
> A 11. mailto:[28]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 12. [29]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A 13. mailto:[30]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 14. [31]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A 15. mailto:[32]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 16. [33]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [34]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [35]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 2. mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net
> 3. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 4. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
> 5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 6. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
> 7. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
> 8. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 9. mailto:thomas at hax.se
> 10. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 11. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 14. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 15. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 16. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 17. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 18. mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net
> 19. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 20. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
> 21. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 22. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
> 23. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
> 24. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 25. mailto:thomas at hax.se
> 26. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 27. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
> 28. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 29. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 30. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 31. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 32. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 33. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 34. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 35. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
-------------- next part --------------
I'd first suspect the electricals as well. It should start normally
with the gas in the fuel bowls. Easy to check the primary bowl fuel
level though.
Water in the dizzy cap, or plug wire(s) gone bad would be good first
steps. Plug wire resistance is easily measured with multimeter.
I've had similar weird MSD problem once, when the distributor wire had
been laying on the block and worn through the insulator. Grounded the
dizzy signal occasionally, when it moved around.
-Janne
3.11.2014 16.09, [1]michael at michaelshortt.com kirjoitti:
Water in the dist cap sounds more likely.
Michael
On Nov 3, 2014 8:48 AM, "Charles McCall" [2]<[1]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
wrote:
A A Thanks Jeff. It isn't unusually humid here and the car is
always stored
A A indoors. As I was writing this, however, it occured to me that
it isn't
A A imposible that some wA!ter may have entered the air cleaner and
dropped
A A into the carb while washing the car. I'm usually pretty careful
with
A A where I aim the hose, but I couldn't swear that the engine
stayed dry,
A A or when opening the decklid when wet, some wA!ter may have run
off near
A A the cleaner...
A A A
A A I will take the air cleaner off and see if I see a healthy
squirt from
A A the acclerator pump. I don't think it would be fuel pump or
clogged
A A fuel filter, as it stumbles under trailing throttle as well, it
it can
A A provide enough fuel for sustainted 115mph running
A A A
A A Could it be electrical? My last MSD 6AL gave some really weird
symptoms
A A that I thought were carb-related before I changed the box and
all my
A A problems went away. I'll go step-by-step
A A On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 12:55 AM, [3]<[1][2]jgkrenton at comcast.net>
wrote:
A A Charlie:
A A How's the weather??
A A Your problem sort of sounds like it could be water in the fuel
to me.A
A A Just a drop can be a problem and once you get it in there, it
can hang
A A around a long time.A
A A As already mentioned, do the usual things to make sure you
didn't
A A "introduce" the problem during the recent tuning.AA Take the
air
A A cleaner off and see if that makes any difference.AA Check the
timing
A A (yes, a pain on the Pantera). Make sure the accelerator pump is
A A squirting. Check the fuel pressure/fuel pump etc.AA I have
also been
A A recently bit by a bad coil and a bad fuel pump.AA Don't rule
anything
A A out.
A A Then dump some "fuel dryer" in the tank and run it a bit to see
if that
A A helps.AA Here in Seattle, water in the fuel is a common
problem.
A A The fuel dryer should help, but there is also the tried and
true "rag
A A tune".
A A You have to be careful with this one, but the idea is to rev
the engine
A A a bit by hand with the air cleaner off.A AA Then when the
engine is
A A reving a bit, maybe 2500 RPM, shove a big rag over the carb for
just a
A A second. (The air-horns, choke, secondary venturies will keep
the rag
A A from being sucked into the engine). The rag acts like a massive
choke
A A and the engine will smoke and die if you leave the rag there
for more
A A than a few seconds.AA But what this does is raise the full
engine
A A vacuum up above the throttle plates and jets/ bleeds to the
A A air-horn/rag level.AA This "extra" vacuum will draw any water
out of
A A the jets/bleeds where the "normal" vacuum often is not strong
enough to
A A pull any water out of the jets.
A A If your carb is a Holley, you can pull the float chambers off
too and
A A make sure they don't have water in them....
A A Good luck.
A A Jeff/2467
A A
A __________________________________________________________________
A A From: "McCall, Charles" [4]<[2][3]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
A A To: "Mark Charlton" [5]<[3][4]pantera01826 at rogers.com>
A A Cc: "DeTomaso Mail List" [6]<[4][5]detomaso at poca.com>
A A Sent: Sunday, November 2, 2014 11:46:48 AM
A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
A A Thanks Mark, but I used 3 full tanks of gas in the past 2 days
:-o
A A The problem has gotten slowly worse, I think.
A A -----Original Message-----
A A From: Mark Charlton [mailto:[5][[7]6]pantera01826 at rogers.com]
A A Sent: domingo, 2 de noviembre de 2014 20:43
A A To: Charles McCall
A A Cc: DeTomaso Mail List
A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for suggestions
A A Charlie,
A A I had a very similar experience with my car during a long tour
in
A A western
A A Canada. We checked everything and concluded it must be a carb
issue.
A A After a
A A full tear-down of the carb revealed nothing wrong at all, I
filled the
A A car
A A (it was 3/4 empty) and the car ran fine again. We concluded
that a
A A stale
A A batch of 94 octane gas (not commonly available) caused the
issue. With
A A any
A A luck that will be your case too I hope.
A A Mark Charlton
A A [6][[8]7]pantera01826 at rogers.com
A A On Nov 2, 2014, at 2:20 PM, Charles McCall
[9]<[7][8]charlesmccall at gmail.com>
A A wrote:
A A > I haven't checked timing, but wouldn't that make the engine
run hot?
A A >
A A > Would that explain the stumble? It might explain why it
doesn't feel
A A as
A A > crisp as it should
A A >
A A > -----Original Message-----
A A > From: thomas [mailto:[8][[10]9]thomas at hax.se]
A A > Sent: domingo, 2 de noviembre de 2014 20:18
A A > To: Charles McCall
A A > Cc: [11]<[9][10]detomaso at poca.com>
A A > Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Unhappy motor - looking for
suggestions
A A >
A A > The distributor gear pin?
A A >
A A > Checked timing?
A A >
A A >
A A >> 2 nov 2014 kl. 20:13 skrev Charles McCall
A A [12]<[10][11]charlesmccall at gmail.com>:
A A >>
A A >> A Hi all
A A >>
A A >>
A A >> A I just got back from a Supercar event in northern Spain
with 35
A A cars
A A >> A attending - Lambo, Ferrari, Viper, Porsche, and, as usual,
a lone
A A >> A DeTomaso!
A A >>
A A >>
A A >> A The highlight for me without a doubt was an 8-minute burst
on the
A A >> A highway with the police clearing the way for us, cruising
at a
A A steady
A A >> A GPS-indicated 180 k/hr in a 35 car convoy... the people
out for a
A A >> A Sunday drive must have had their minds boggled...
A A >>
A A >>
A A >> A Anyway, my engine is not happy. This morning in the hotel
parking
A A lot I
A A >> A really thought that we'd have to skip today's event
because it
A A wouldn't
A A >> A start and didn't sound like it was even thinking about
starting.
A A Took
A A >> A probably 5 minutes of crank-wait-crank-wait before it
fired.
A A Yesterday
A A >> A at the gas station it took 2-3 minutes to start, something
that
A A has
A A >> A never, ever happened before. It is really hard to describe
the
A A problem
A A >> A so much of it is "feel", but I'll do my best.
A A >>
A A >>
A A >> A A few weeks ago I noticed that the engine would tend to
stumble if
A A I
A A >> A would floor the throttle, then clear its throat and pull.
For
A A example,
A A >> A I like to heel-and-toe, just because, and when blipping
the
A A throttle it
A A >> A would stumble instead of rev. The engine also felt a
little
A A rougher, as
A A >> A though it vibrated more than I remembered it. I don't
remember if
A A this
A A >> A was before or after I did a short tune-up, by adjusting
the valve
A A lash
A A >> A (I have mechanical lifters), and cleaning the K&N air
filter by
A A >> A applying K&N filter oil, etc. or if it is irrelevant. So I
was
A A messing
A A >> A around in the engine bay recently...
A A >>
A A >>
A A >> A This weekend the engine felt considerably worse. It felt
like it
A A would
A A >> A stumble under partial throttle as well. It would stumble a
little
A A bit
A A >> A under trailing throttle going downhill as well, so I don't
think
A A it is
A A >> A a clogged fuel filter.
A A >>
A A >>
A A >> A Oil temp is perfect. Oil pressure is perfect. Water temp
is
A A perfect.
A A >> A The engine idles perfectly. But if you floor the gas from
idle,
A A it'll
A A >> A stall. The engine doesn't feel crisp, it feels bloated and
soft,
A A if
A A >> A that makes sense. It feels rough, and it feels like it
A A occasionally
A A >> A stumbles under constant throttle at highway speed. It
pulls hard
A A when
A A >> A accelerating, but I don't think as hard as it used to, or
as high
A A (I
A A >> A have a 6500 rpm limiting chip in the MSD that it used to
pull very
A A >> A easily to).
A A >>
A A >>
A A >> A Suggestions for where to begin looking? And other info
that would
A A help
A A >> A in troubleshooting?
A A >>
A A >>
A A >> !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!
A A >> _______________________________________________
A A >>
A A >> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A >>
A A >> DeTomaso mailing list
A A >> [11][[13]12]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A >> [12][13][14]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A >>
A A >>
A A >> !DSPAM:54568258260291209923907!
A A >
A A >
A A > _______________________________________________
A A >
A A > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A >
A A > DeTomaso mailing list
A A > [13][[15]14]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A > [14][15][16]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A A _______________________________________________
A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
A A DeTomaso mailing list
A A [15][[17]16]DeTomaso at poca.com
A A [16][17][18]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
A A 1. mailto:[[19]18]jgkrenton at comcast.net
A A 2. mailto:[[20]19]charlesmccall at gmail.com
A A 3. mailto:[[21]20]pantera01826 at rogers.com
A A 4. mailto:[[22]21]detomaso at poca.com
A A 5. mailto:[[23]22]pantera01826 at rogers.com
A A 6. mailto:[[24]23]pantera01826 at rogers.com
A A 7. mailto:[[25]24]charlesmccall at gmail.com
A A 8. mailto:[[26]25]thomas at hax.se
A A 9. mailto:[[27]26]detomaso at poca.com
A 10. mailto:[[28]27]charlesmccall at gmail.com
A 11. mailto:[[29]28]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 12. [29][30]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 13. mailto:[[31]30]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 14. [31][32]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
A 15. mailto:[[33]32]DeTomaso at poca.com
A 16. [33][34]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[[35]34]DeTomaso at poca.com
[35][36]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. [37]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
2. [38]mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net
3. [39]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
4. [40]mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
5. [41]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
6. [42]mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
7. [43]mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
8. [44]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
9. [45]mailto:thomas at hax.se
10. [46]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
11. [47]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
12. [48]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
13. [49]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
14. [50]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
15. [51]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
16. [52]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
17. [53]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
18. [54]mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net
19. [55]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
20. [56]mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
21. [57]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
22. [58]mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
23. [59]mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
24. [60]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
25. [61]mailto:thomas at hax.se
26. [62]mailto:detomaso at poca.com
27. [63]mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
28. [64]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
29. [65]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
30. [66]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
31. [67]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
32. [68]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
33. [69]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
34. [70]mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
35. [71]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
[72]DeTomaso at poca.com
[73]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
2. mailto:[1]charlesmccall at gmail.com
3. mailto:[1][2]jgkrenton at comcast.net
4. mailto:[2][3]charlesmccall at gmail.com
5. mailto:[3][4]pantera01826 at rogers.com
6. mailto:[4][5]detomaso at poca.com
7. mailto:6]pantera01826 at rogers.com
8. mailto:7]pantera01826 at rogers.com
9. mailto:[7][8]charlesmccall at gmail.com
10. mailto:9]thomas at hax.se
11. mailto:[9][10]detomaso at poca.com
12. mailto:[10][11]charlesmccall at gmail.com
13. mailto:12]DeTomaso at poca.com
14. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
15. mailto:14]DeTomaso at poca.com
16. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
17. mailto:16]DeTomaso at poca.com
18. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
19. mailto:18]jgkrenton at comcast.net
20. mailto:19]charlesmccall at gmail.com
21. mailto:20]pantera01826 at rogers.com
22. mailto:21]detomaso at poca.com
23. mailto:22]pantera01826 at rogers.com
24. mailto:23]pantera01826 at rogers.com
25. mailto:24]charlesmccall at gmail.com
26. mailto:25]thomas at hax.se
27. mailto:26]detomaso at poca.com
28. mailto:27]charlesmccall at gmail.com
29. mailto:28]DeTomaso at poca.com
30. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
31. mailto:30]DeTomaso at poca.com
32. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
33. mailto:32]DeTomaso at poca.com
34. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
35. mailto:34]DeTomaso at poca.com
36. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
37. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
38. mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net
39. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
40. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
41. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
42. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
43. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
44. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
45. mailto:thomas at hax.se
46. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
47. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
48. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
49. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
50. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
51. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
52. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
53. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
54. mailto:jgkrenton at comcast.net
55. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
56. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
57. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
58. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
59. mailto:pantera01826 at rogers.com
60. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
61. mailto:thomas at hax.se
62. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
63. mailto:charlesmccall at gmail.com
64. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
65. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
66. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
67. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
68. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
69. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
70. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
71. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
72. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
73. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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