[DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth

Wed Jul 16 14:23:46 EDT 2014

Hi,

Thanks a lot for comments on the gearbox.

Will firs start by making sure lever is centered and then and trunion
bearing is tight, if necessary follow with checking the mentioned spring.

Best, Robert

From: John Taphorn [mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 4:15 PM
To: Robert Stroj; detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth

Regarding your ZF slipping out of third.  I've rebuilt several of these
boxes and can offer a little insight.

First - Check to ensure the trunion bearing is tightly in place.

Second - Ensure that when in neutral the shift shaft is dead center north
and south in the gate.  If not adjust so it is centered.

Thirdly - Do you know if the rear plate of the ZF has been removed or the ZF
rebuilt?  On my first ZF rebuild, I improperly installed the spring for the
3rd gear shifter pad.  I installed it out of order and the spring was
compromised not allowing full pressure on the detent.  It is a small spring,
yet when not properly tensioned allows the third gear shifter shaft to slide
out of place.  I encountered the same problem that you are experiencing.  It
was easy to hold in place with my hand resting against the shifter in third
gear.

It was not a difficult fix and the part is inexpensive; yet, required
removal of the ZF and minor dis assembly of the ZF.

I hope it is one or two.

JT

On 7/1/2014 10:05 AM, Robert Stroj wrote:

So, finally, my '71 Pantera got through all the import procedures and is now
street legal in Europe/Germany!
Car is in very good shape, zero rust anywhere, suspension feels very good to
drive (height adjustable koni set), brakes work well (wilwood conversion),
but there is something not right with the motor.
Engine is a older 351C rebuild using original crankshaft and pistons. Some
years later it was fitted with CHI 3V heads and intake system, SS valves,
780 Holley and GTS exhaust system.
When driving the cart was pulling well, but definitely was not feeling as
400-500HP car; this is what I was sort of expecting after talking to person
who rebuild the engine as well as previous owner...it did not really feel as
300HP car...
I had a chance to put it on the dyno at the friend's garage and got the
following graph (please see the attached image); this are graphs for
adjusted power on the flywheel after recalculating looses between engine and
wheels.
What was really interesting is that he had a chance to test 2 other panteras
recently; one was a client that had rebuilt engine using some "special
parts", bt I am not sure of the actual spec while the other one was black
GR4 replica that is currently listed for sale in Germany and was built by
Braun Motorsport: 

http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass
enzul-neuaufbau-neuried-bei-m%C3%BCnche/159513949.html?lang=de&pageNumber=1&
__lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCEND
ING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=7400&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&m
akeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=f
alse&ambitCountry=DE&negativeFeatures=EXPORT

So, finally, my engine did not even reach 250HP, another rebuild pantera
motor did just over 300HP while Braun pantera did very nice 389HP; there is
also Ford GT40 with racing motor in there; it did 410hp but at much higher
RPM.
The most impressive about the Braun car is how smooth the power curve is.

So, now I am wondering where to go from here; could it be that it is as
simple as wrong cam choice?
If going to do a rebuild is there a good configuration someone could suggest
that would use CHI3V heads and intake, as I already got those?

As well, I had something strange happen twice with the gearbox; it got out
of the 3rd gear by itself; would someone know if this could be due to any
wrong linkage adjustment? 

Thanks, Robert

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DeTomaso mailing list
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-------------- next part --------------
   Hi,

   Thanks a lot for comments on the gearbox.

   Will firs start by making sure lever is centered and then and trunion
   bearing is tight, if necessary follow with checking the mentioned
   spring.

   Best, Robert

   From: John Taphorn [mailto:jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com]
   Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 4:15 PM
   To: Robert Stroj; detomaso at poca.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] FW: Moment of (sad) truth

   Regarding your ZF slipping out of third.  I've rebuilt several of these
   boxes and can offer a little insight.
   First - Check to ensure the trunion bearing is tightly in place.
   Second - Ensure that when in neutral the shift shaft is dead center
   north and south in the gate.  If not adjust so it is centered.
   Thirdly - Do you know if the rear plate of the ZF has been removed or
   the ZF rebuilt?  On my first ZF rebuild, I improperly installed the
   spring for the 3rd gear shifter pad.  I installed it out of order and
   the spring was compromised not allowing full pressure on the detent.
   It is a small spring, yet when not properly tensioned allows the third
   gear shifter shaft to slide out of place.  I encountered the same
   problem that you are experiencing.  It was easy to hold in place with
   my hand resting against the shifter in third gear.
   It was not a difficult fix and the part is inexpensive; yet, required
   removal of the ZF and minor dis assembly of the ZF.
   I hope it is one or two.
   JT

   On 7/1/2014 10:05 AM, Robert Stroj wrote:

So, finally, my '71 Pantera got through all the import procedures and is now
street legal in Europe/Germany!
Car is in very good shape, zero rust anywhere, suspension feels very good to
drive (height adjustable koni set), brakes work well (wilwood conversion),
but there is something not right with the motor.
Engine is a older 351C rebuild using original crankshaft and pistons. Some
years later it was fitted with CHI 3V heads and intake system, SS valves,
780 Holley and GTS exhaust system.
When driving the cart was pulling well, but definitely was not feeling as
400-500HP car; this is what I was sort of expecting after talking to person
who rebuild the engine as well as previous owner...it did not really feel as
300HP car...
I had a chance to put it on the dyno at the friend's garage and got the
following graph (please see the attached image); this are graphs for
adjusted power on the flywheel after recalculating looses between engine and
wheels.
What was really interesting is that he had a chance to test 2 other panteras
recently; one was a client that had rebuilt engine using some "special
parts", bt I am not sure of the actual spec while the other one was black
GR4 replica that is currently listed for sale in Germany and was built by
Braun Motorsport:

[1]http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass
enzul-neuaufbau-neuried-bei-m%C3%BCnche/159513949.html?lang=de&pageNumber=1&
__lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=creationTime&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCEND
ING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=7400&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&m
akeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=f
alse&ambitCountry=DE&negativeFeatures=EXPORT

So, finally, my engine did not even reach 250HP, another rebuild pantera
motor did just over 300HP while Braun pantera did very nice 389HP; there is
also Ford GT40 with racing motor in there; it did 410hp but at much higher
RPM.
The most impressive about the Braun car is how smooth the power curve is.

So, now I am wondering where to go from here; could it be that it is as
simple as wrong cam choice?
If going to do a rebuild is there a good configuration someone could suggest
that would use CHI3V heads and intake, as I already got those?

As well, I had something strange happen twice with the gearbox; it got out
of the 3rd gear by itself; would someone know if this could be due to any
wrong linkage adjustment?

Thanks, Robert

_______________________________________________

Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA

DeTomaso mailing list
[2]DeTomaso at poca.com
[3]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com

References

   1. http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/detomaso-pantera-gruppe-4-m-hist-strass
   2. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
   3. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com