[DeTomaso] Stack injection units
shawkins777 at comcast.net
shawkins777 at comcast.net
Tue Jul 1 12:36:48 EDT 2014
Kirby,
I have to do the same with mine, it makes sense to me that you have to take fuel out during low loads on the engine. At low loads you don't have to worry as much about going lean so you can run a lot leaner.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kirby Schrader" <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
To: "Daniel C Jones" <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
Cc: "Panteras" <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2014 11:23:41 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Stack injection units
A couple of comments to Dan's email.
On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Daniel C Jones <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> A non-linear throttle linkage is a must.
>
Most definitely!
I drove my Pantera for years with a side pull linkage.
It was a PITA to drive around town at low speeds. Just a small push of the
pedal
made too much happen too fast.
With Mike Trusty's help, I converted it to a center pull progressive setup
and it's a different car entirely.
The later TWM setups come with a wheel mounted in the center which works
very, very well.
I have that on my GT40.
> To date, we have not been successful in getting Kelly's Electromotive
> unit sorted.A We swapped ECU's, software, various hardware bits, etcs
> all to no avail.A Mike Trusty even came in to do some diagnostics but
> was unable to find the problem.
Wow... I know the pain.
When I installed my GT40 Electromotive system, I fought with it for three
months. Literally.
Changed ECU's, cursed, pulled hair and other things and no change.
I finally found the problem. The harness was built poorly and there was an
intermittent
connection at the plug where it went into the ECU.
Got a replacement harness (had to re-wire everything, of course) and
everything worked fine.
Painful experience....
Another thing I've noticed with both my IR systems... and had it confirmed
by another GT40 owner with a similar setup.
There's a 'hole' in the VE table. Both of my cars have it.
The response at full throttle is damned near linear.
However, both engines run way too rich at cruise speeds and I have to take
out a lot of fuel at lower rpms and high manifold vacuum.
I don't know why, I just know that's the way the engines respond.
Easy to adjust, just goes against most advice I received.
FWIW,
Kirby
>
> On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 7:23 AM, Kirby Schrader
> <[1]kirby.schrader at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A A Yep. TWM was bought out by Borla some time ago. Three years?
> Maybe
> A A more.
> A A Gary is still there though and very helpful.
> A A I like the TWM throttle bodies. I have them on my Pantera and
> my GT40.
> A A The Pantera has older style throttle bodies which were supplied
> in the
> A A mid-90's by Quella with an old F9 Haltech EFI system.
> A
> A [1][2]http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/tws/tws2/kirb
> yefi.jpg
> A A The fuel rails are on the outside, as you can see.
> A A I honestly don't know if Quella still does the EFI systems.
> Last time I
> A A talked to him he sorta' indicated he no longer does.
> A A You'd have to check.
> A A When the ancient F9 in the Pantera let all the smoke out, I
> replaced it
> A A with an Electromotive TEC GT.
> A A The GT40 has an Electromotive TEC3r.
> A
> A [2][3]http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/GT40/files/p5
> 260043.j
> A A pg.jpg
> A A The fuel rails are on the inside with this setup and it looks
> A A 'cleaner', I think.
> A A I like both TEC units. They work.
> A A The TEC3r is more expensive, but has more control and
> inputs/outputs
> A A and can do fully sequential injection on a V8.
> A A The TEC GT can only do what I call 'batch fire' on a V8.
> A A That old saying... you get what you pay for.
> A A Lots of people like the FAST system. I have no experience with
> it.
> A A Steve Hawkins uses the Accel system and seems to like it.
> A A FWIW,
> A A Kirby
>
> A A On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 6:58 AM, Will Kooiman
> A A <[3][4]will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
> A A A The throttle bodies I like the most are made by
>
> A A A [4][5]http://www.borlainduction.com. A They are obviously
> throttle
>
> A A A bodies, but
> A A A they look like they belong in the 60's/70's.
>
> A A A This used to be [5][6]twminduction.com. A ThatA^1s news to
> me though.
> A A A A I went to
> A A A their old site, [6][7]http://www.twminduction.com, and it
> was
>
> A A A redirected to the
> A A A borla induction website.
> A A A I have seen some based on real Weber bodies with small
> injectors
> A A A hidden
>
> A A A inside. A It's an interesting idea, but I'd probably stick
> with the
> A A A TWM
> A A A bodies.
> A A A Superior depends on what is important to you. A In my
> opinion, the
> A A A biggest
> A A A considerations are cost, looks, and the electronics. A Some
> may
>
> A A A outperform
> A A A others, but I doubt that it comes without setup headaches.
> A A A And finally, unless you plan on designing a lot of it yourself,
> I'd
> A A A stick
>
> A A A with a complete system. A I normally recommend Dennis Q.,
> but don't
> A A A forget
> A A A that Jim Inglese is still in business. A He knows Webers
> like nobody
>
> A A A else,
> A A A and now he's doing EFI too.
> A A A --
> A A A Will
>
> A A A On 7/1/14 12:56 AM, "[7][8]shawkins777 at comcast.net"
> A A A <[8][9]shawkins777 at comcast.net>
> A A A wrote:
> A A >
> A A > A A Are you looking for an EFI setup? A If you are I would
> recommend
> A A The
> A A > A A ACCEl electronics. A I went thru Dennes Quella for the
> manifold
> A A and
> A A > A A throttle bodies.
> A A >
> A A >
> A A > A A Steve
> A A > A A A
> A
> A __________________________________________________________________
> A A >
> A A > A A From: "Boyd Casey" <[9][10]boyd411 at gmail.com>
> A A > A A To: [10][11]detomaso at poca.com
> A A > A A Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 11:40:27 PM
> A A > A A Subject: [DeTomaso] Stack injection units
> A A > A A Is there a consensus as far as which stack injection unit
> is :
> A A > A A 1.the best?
> A A > A A 2. Best deal ?
> A A > A A 3. are the units that use actual webers and weber
> manifolds
> A A considered
> A A > A A Superior?
> A A > A A 4. one to avoid?
> A A > A A Any other considerations one should be aware of?
> A A > A A Thanks.
> A A > A A Boyd
> A A > A A _______________________________________________
> A A > A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A A > A A DeTomaso mailing list
> A A > A A [11][12]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A > A
> A [12][13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> A A >_______________________________________________
> A A >
> A A >Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A A >
> A A >DeTomaso mailing list
>
> A A >[13][14]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A >[14][15]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> A A _______________________________________________
> A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A A DeTomaso mailing list
>
> A A [15][16]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A [16][17]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> References
> A A 1.
> [18]http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/tws/tws2/kirbyefi
> .jpg
> A A 2.
> [19]http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/GT40/files/p52600
> 43.jpg.jpg
> A A 3. mailto:[20]will.kooiman at gmail.com
> A A 4. [21]http://www.borlainduction.com/
> A A 5. [22]http://twminduction.com/
> A A 6. [23]http://www.twminduction.com/
> A A 7. mailto:[24]shawkins777 at comcast.net
> A A 8. mailto:[25]shawkins777 at comcast.net
> A A 9. mailto:[26]boyd411 at gmail.com
> A 10. mailto:[27]detomaso at poca.com
> A 11. mailto:[28]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 12. [29]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A 13. mailto:[30]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 14. [31]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A 15. mailto:[32]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 16. [33]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [34]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [35]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:kirby.schrader at gmail.com
> 2. http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/tws/tws2/kirbyefi.jpg
> 3. http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/GT40/files/p5260043.j
> 4. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
> 5. http://www.borlainduction.com/
> 6. http://twminduction.com/
> 7. http://www.twminduction.com/
> 8. mailto:shawkins777 at comcast.net
> 9. mailto:shawkins777 at comcast.net
> 10. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
> 11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 14. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 15. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 16. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 17. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 18. http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/tws/tws2/kirbyefi.jpg
> 19.
> http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/GT40/files/p5260043.jpg.jpg
> 20. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
> 21. http://www.borlainduction.com/
> 22. http://twminduction.com/
> 23. http://www.twminduction.com/
> 24. mailto:shawkins777 at comcast.net
> 25. mailto:shawkins777 at comcast.net
> 26. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
> 27. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 28. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 29. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 30. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 31. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 32. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 33. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 34. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 35. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at poca.com
http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
-------------- next part --------------
Kirby,
I have to do the same with mine, it makes sense to me that you have to
take fuel out during low loads on the engine. At low loads you don't
have to worry as much about going lean so you can run a lot leaner.
Steve
__________________________________________________________________
From: "Kirby Schrader" <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>
To: "Daniel C Jones" <daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
Cc: "Panteras" <detomaso at poca.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 1, 2014 11:23:41 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Stack injection units
A couple of comments to Dan's email.
On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Daniel C Jones
<daniel.c.jones2 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> A non-linear throttle linkage is a must.
>
Most definitely!
I drove my Pantera for years with a side pull linkage.
It was a PITA to drive around town at low speeds. Just a small push of
the
pedal
made too much happen too fast.
With Mike Trusty's help, I converted it to a center pull progressive
setup
and it's a different car entirely.
The later TWM setups come with a wheel mounted in the center which
works
very, very well.
I have that on my GT40.
> To date, we have not been successful in getting Kelly's
Electromotive
> unit sorted.A We swapped ECU's, software, various hardware bits,
etcs
> all to no avail.A Mike Trusty even came in to do some diagnostics
but
> was unable to find the problem.
Wow... I know the pain.
When I installed my GT40 Electromotive system, I fought with it for
three
months. Literally.
Changed ECU's, cursed, pulled hair and other things and no change.
I finally found the problem. The harness was built poorly and there was
an
intermittent
connection at the plug where it went into the ECU.
Got a replacement harness (had to re-wire everything, of course) and
everything worked fine.
Painful experience....
Another thing I've noticed with both my IR systems... and had it
confirmed
by another GT40 owner with a similar setup.
There's a 'hole' in the VE table. Both of my cars have it.
The response at full throttle is damned near linear.
However, both engines run way too rich at cruise speeds and I have to
take
out a lot of fuel at lower rpms and high manifold vacuum.
I don't know why, I just know that's the way the engines respond.
Easy to adjust, just goes against most advice I received.
FWIW,
Kirby
>
> On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 7:23 AM, Kirby Schrader
> <[1]kirby.schrader at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A A Yep. TWM was bought out by Borla some time ago. Three
years?
> Maybe
> A A more.
> A A Gary is still there though and very helpful.
> A A I like the TWM throttle bodies. I have them on my Pantera
and
> my GT40.
> A A The Pantera has older style throttle bodies which were
supplied
> in the
> A A mid-90's by Quella with an old F9 Haltech EFI system.
> A
> A
[1][2]http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/tws/tws2/kirb
> yefi.jpg
> A A The fuel rails are on the outside, as you can see.
> A A I honestly don't know if Quella still does the EFI systems.
> Last time I
> A A talked to him he sorta' indicated he no longer does.
> A A You'd have to check.
> A A When the ancient F9 in the Pantera let all the smoke out, I
> replaced it
> A A with an Electromotive TEC GT.
> A A The GT40 has an Electromotive TEC3r.
> A
> A
[2][3]http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/GT40/files/p5
> 260043.j
> A A pg.jpg
> A A The fuel rails are on the inside with this setup and it
looks
> A A 'cleaner', I think.
> A A I like both TEC units. They work.
> A A The TEC3r is more expensive, but has more control and
> inputs/outputs
> A A and can do fully sequential injection on a V8.
> A A The TEC GT can only do what I call 'batch fire' on a V8.
> A A That old saying... you get what you pay for.
> A A Lots of people like the FAST system. I have no experience
with
> it.
> A A Steve Hawkins uses the Accel system and seems to like it.
> A A FWIW,
> A A Kirby
>
> A A On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 6:58 AM, Will Kooiman
> A A <[3][4]will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
> A A A The throttle bodies I like the most are made by
>
> A A A [4][5]http://www.borlainduction.com. A They are
obviously
> throttle
>
> A A A bodies, but
> A A A they look like they belong in the 60's/70's.
>
> A A A This used to be [5][6]twminduction.com. A ThatA^1s news
to
> me though.
> A A A A I went to
> A A A their old site, [6][7]http://www.twminduction.com, and
it
> was
>
> A A A redirected to the
> A A A borla induction website.
> A A A I have seen some based on real Weber bodies with small
> injectors
> A A A hidden
>
> A A A inside. A It's an interesting idea, but I'd probably
stick
> with the
> A A A TWM
> A A A bodies.
> A A A Superior depends on what is important to you. A In my
> opinion, the
> A A A biggest
> A A A considerations are cost, looks, and the electronics. A
Some
> may
>
> A A A outperform
> A A A others, but I doubt that it comes without setup headaches.
> A A A And finally, unless you plan on designing a lot of it
yourself,
> I'd
> A A A stick
>
> A A A with a complete system. A I normally recommend Dennis
Q.,
> but don't
> A A A forget
> A A A that Jim Inglese is still in business. A He knows Webers
> like nobody
>
> A A A else,
> A A A and now he's doing EFI too.
> A A A --
> A A A Will
>
> A A A On 7/1/14 12:56 AM, "[7][8]shawkins777 at comcast.net"
> A A A <[8][9]shawkins777 at comcast.net>
> A A A wrote:
> A A >
> A A > A A Are you looking for an EFI setup? A If you are I
would
> recommend
> A A The
> A A > A A ACCEl electronics. A I went thru Dennes Quella for
the
> manifold
> A A and
> A A > A A throttle bodies.
> A A >
> A A >
> A A > A A Steve
> A A > A A A
> A
> A
__________________________________________________________________
> A A >
> A A > A A From: "Boyd Casey" <[9][10]boyd411 at gmail.com>
> A A > A A To: [10][11]detomaso at poca.com
> A A > A A Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 11:40:27 PM
> A A > A A Subject: [DeTomaso] Stack injection units
> A A > A A Is there a consensus as far as which stack injection
unit
> is :
> A A > A A 1.the best?
> A A > A A 2. Best deal ?
> A A > A A 3. are the units that use actual webers and weber
> manifolds
> A A considered
> A A > A A Superior?
> A A > A A 4. one to avoid?
> A A > A A Any other considerations one should be aware of?
> A A > A A Thanks.
> A A > A A Boyd
> A A > A A _______________________________________________
> A A > A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A A > A A DeTomaso mailing list
> A A > A A [11][12]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A > A
> A [12][13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> A A >_______________________________________________
> A A >
> A A >Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A A >
> A A >DeTomaso mailing list
>
> A A >[13][14]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A >[14][15]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> A A _______________________________________________
> A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> A A DeTomaso mailing list
>
> A A [15][16]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A A [16][17]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> References
> A A 1.
>
[18]http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/tws/tws2/kirbyefi
> .jpg
> A A 2.
>
[19]http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/GT40/files/p52600
> 43.jpg.jpg
> A A 3. mailto:[20]will.kooiman at gmail.com
> A A 4. [21]http://www.borlainduction.com/
> A A 5. [22]http://twminduction.com/
> A A 6. [23]http://www.twminduction.com/
> A A 7. mailto:[24]shawkins777 at comcast.net
> A A 8. mailto:[25]shawkins777 at comcast.net
> A A 9. mailto:[26]boyd411 at gmail.com
> A 10. mailto:[27]detomaso at poca.com
> A 11. mailto:[28]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 12. [29]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A 13. mailto:[30]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 14. [31]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> A 15. mailto:[32]DeTomaso at poca.com
> A 16. [33]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> _______________________________________________
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> DeTomaso mailing list
> [34]DeTomaso at poca.com
> [35]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:kirby.schrader at gmail.com
> 2.
http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/tws/tws2/kirbyefi.jpg
> 3.
http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/GT40/files/p5260043.j
> 4. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
> 5. http://www.borlainduction.com/
> 6. http://twminduction.com/
> 7. http://www.twminduction.com/
> 8. mailto:shawkins777 at comcast.net
> 9. mailto:shawkins777 at comcast.net
> 10. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
> 11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 14. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 15. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 16. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 17. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 18.
http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/tws/tws2/kirbyefi.jpg
> 19.
>
http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/kirbyschrader/GT40/files/p5260043.jpg.
jpg
> 20. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
> 21. http://www.borlainduction.com/
> 22. http://twminduction.com/
> 23. http://www.twminduction.com/
> 24. mailto:shawkins777 at comcast.net
> 25. mailto:shawkins777 at comcast.net
> 26. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
> 27. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
> 28. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 29. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 30. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 31. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 32. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 33. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 34. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
> 35. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at poca.com
> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
>
_______________________________________________
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DeTomaso mailing list
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