[DeTomaso] LPC: Radar in the rain

michael at michaelshortt.com michael at michaelshortt.com
Tue Dec 16 21:51:14 EST 2014


For your consideration,
I think it is horse pucky.

Michael

*Light helicopters*

*UH-1H*: $835 per flight hour* [1]*
<http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2004/Mar/Armys_Old.htm>

*Huey II*: $535 per flight hour* [2]*
<http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2004/Mar/Armys_Old.htm>

*S-76*: $1,178 per flight hour (based on 2003 exchange rate of 7.7 $HK /
USD) *[6]* <http://www.budget.gov.hk/2003/eng/head166.pdf>

*EC 155 Dauphin*: $1,157 per flight hour (based on 2003 exchange rate of
7.7 $HK / USD) *[7]* <http://www.budget.gov.hk/2003/eng/head166.pdf>

*HH-65 Dolphin*: $5,173 per flight hour (US Coast Guard version) *[7]*
<http://www.uscg.mil/d13/publicaffairs/news/feature_stories/false_distress_page.htm>



*Medium-lift helicopters*

*UH-60 Blackhawk*: $2,199 per flight hour* [3]*
<http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2004/Mar/Armys_Old.htm>

*Mi-17*: $2,850 per flight hour* [4]*
<http://mst.texterity.com/mst/2006-1/?pg=30> (based on Croatian currency)

*AS 332 Super Puma*: $1,883 per flight hour (based on 2003 exchange rate of
7.7 $HK / USD) *[8]* <http://www.budget.gov.hk/2003/eng/head166.pdf>

*CH-47D Chinook*: $2,403 - $2,723 per flight hour *[11]*
<http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/comments/c342.htm>


*Heavy-lift helicopters*

*CH-53E Super Stallion*: $20,000 per flight hour *[5]*
<http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2007/05/ch53k-the-us-marines-hlr-helicopter-program-updated/index.php>



*Attack helicopters*

*AH-64 Apache*: $3,851 per flight hour *[9]*
<http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/rotary.htm>

*AH-1S Cobra*: $1,569 - $1,757 per flight hour *[10]*
<http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/comments/c342.htm>

Read more:
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/air-force-aviation/helicopters-cost-ownership-6315/#ixzz3M7TxZ4F4


On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>    Agreed.  It is the 1033 program.
>
>    I found the article on google.  There was a story from 2011 that
>    appeared to be the original, and the rest seemed to be repeats.
>
>    I'm not surprised about the military transferring surplus to local law
>    enforcement.  It makes sense, especially if the local law enforcement
>    has a need for the equipment.
>
>    An accounting hole is also probably being exploited.
>
>    I just don't buy that they transfer the big, dangerous, obnoxious
>    stuff.
>
>    From: Boyd Casey <[1]boyd411 at gmail.com>
>    Date: Monday, December 15, 2014 at 11:36 PM
>    To: "[2]michael at michaelshortt.com" <[3]michael at michaelshortt.com>
>    Cc: Will Kooiman <[4]will.kooiman at gmail.com>, "[5]detomaso at poca.com"
>    <[6]detomaso at poca.com>, Larry Finch <[7]fresnofinches at aol.com>, Mike
>    Drew <[8]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
>    Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] LPC: Radar in the rain
>
>    I know you can't believe anything you read on the net half of what you
>    read in the paper and a pct of what you see on TV and the Idea of a
>    Florida police department having 8 Apache helicopters (or 1) is beyond
>    belief there are numerous stories on Google that are very current,
>    Here is one
>    link[9]http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/08/20/use-online-database-find
>    -military-equipment-local-police-department-stockpiling/
>    Do your own search and you will find many more. Regardless if the
>    Apache story is true or not the fact that the D.O.D. is transferring
>    tons of military equipment to municipal police departments is a fact.
>    Boyd
>
>    On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 9:45 PM, [10]michael at michaelshortt.com
>    <[11]michael at michaelshortt.com> wrote:
>
>      I know a guy that owns eight (8) Cobra Helicopters, used for
>      personal toys and sometime film work.  They are a tinker toys
>      compared to an Apache, flying cost of one is in the same range per
>      hour as a fighter jet. Lots of them here flying overhead on a daily
>      basis, I do not believe that any municipal department could afford
>      to maintain one, much less several.
>
>      Michael Shortt
>
>    On Dec 15, 2014 9:35 PM, "Will Kooiman" <[12]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
>    wrote:
>
>         The article was from 2011, and since we haven't heard any reports
>      of
>         tanks blowing up in Florida, I'd say they aren't being used.
>         The article was so old, I couldn't find any fact check
>      information on
>         it.
>         If you've ever seen an Apache, you'd realize just how ridiculous
>      this
>         story is.  An Apache is a tank killer, and it is a super bad at ss
>      one at
>         that.  It has no place in civilian use.
>         If the evidence is real (8 helicopters at $18M each), then maybe
>      it is
>         a coverup for something else - like embezzlement.  That makes a
>      lot
>         more sense than civilian attack helicopters.
>         From: Boyd Casey <[1][13]boyd411 at gmail.com>
>         Date: Monday, December 15, 2014 at 11:29 AM
>         To: Will Kooiman <[2][14]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
>         Cc: Mike Drew <[3][15]MikeLDrew at aol.com>,
>      "[4][16]detomaso at poca.com"
>         <[5][17]detomaso at poca.com>, Larry Finch
>      <[6][18]fresnofinches at aol.com>
>         Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] LPC: Radar in the rain
>         The article said they received 8 Apaches which suggest to me that
>         their plans are for more then a "static display".
>         As I pointed out in my post I have no verification of this
>      information
>         so we don't know if it is factual or not.
>         Boyd
>         On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 12:51 AM, Will Kooiman
>         <[7][19]will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
>           I don(c)oet think they get military surplus because they need
>      it.
>           They accept the surplus because the military wants to get rid
>      of
>           their
>           surplus.
>           Now, whether they accepted an Apache or not, I rather doubt it.
>           Aircraft
>           are expensive to maintain.  They wouldn(c)oet accept an Apache
>           unless they
>           planned on turning it into a non-functioning display.
>      That(c)oes
>           more likely
>           Internet garbage.
>
>         On 12/14/14, 1:13 PM, "Boyd Casey" <[8][20]boyd411 at gmail.com>
>    wrote:
>         >   The current reality makes George Orwell's "1984" look like a
>         fairy
>         >   tale, and I'm afraid it's only going to get worse. I'm all for
>         "the
>         >   rule of law" andA  "Law and Order" but America was never
>         supposed to be
>         >   about living in a police state. I recently read that a
>    municipal
>         police
>         >   department obtained some surplus Apache helicopters from the
>         D.O.D.,(
>         >   Knowing you can't take what you read as fact ,) it still begs
>         the
>         >   question What does a police department in America need with
>         Apache
>         >   helicopters designed to take out tanks ( hellfire missiles and
>         Gatling
>         >   cannon that fire depleted uranium armor piercing shells?) What
>         are they
>         >   planning for or what do they expect? The prospects of what's
>         around the
>         >   corner are very frightening. The continued push to upscale the
>         armament
>         >   levels of the police and the attemptA  to disarm the public
>         makes theA
>         >   2nd amendment fringe groups seem like they are not as far out
>    on
>         the
>         >   fringe as the media attempts to portray.
>         >   I feel safe in saying this is not what the members of my
>    family
>         who
>         >   dedicated large parts of their lives (or gave their lives) had
>         in mind
>         >   nor do I suspect did you when you put on the uniform.
>         >   Hugh
>         >
>         >   On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Mike Drew
>
>           <[1][9][21]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
>           >   wrote:
>           >
>           >     Boyd,
>           >     All it would take would be one public-spirited citizen
>      with a
>           big
>           >     shotgun or rifle to put those speed cameras right and
>      then all
>           would
>           >     be good in your corner of the world. :)
>           >     England is especially fond of speed cameras. For awhile,
>           charitable
>           >     people were hanging old tires from the camera boxes,
>      pouring
>           gas
>           >     into them and then setting them on fire. While these
>      Robin
>           Hoods
>           >     were celebrated by the people, the government didn't have
>      much
>           of a
>           >     sense of humor about it, and a few people got very long
>      prison
>           >     sentences (5-10 yrs maybe?) after the cops set up cameras
>      to
>           look AT
>           >     the cameras and used those to track down the rebels. Once
>      word
>           got
>           >     out about that, the practice pretty much died out....
>           >     Mike
>           >     Sent from my iPhone
>           >     On Dec 14, 2014, at 11:18, Boyd Casey
>
>         <[2][10][22]boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>         >     >A  A The benefit (to the police) of the radar gun is it's
>         "instant
>         >     on" which
>         >     >A  A makes a radar detector all but useless. (unless as
>    Larry
>         said
>         >     you are
>         >     >A  A fortunate enough to have the police try to get someone
>         in
>         >     front of you
>         >     >A  A and your detector picks up the residual signal. Other
>         wise by
>         >     the time
>         >     >A  A you hear the warning you have already been clocked!
>         >     >A  A A A A A A AA  On a side note there has been a recent
>         >     development here on
>         >     >A  A long Island concerning photo radar. Apparently the
>         authorities
>         >     >A  A installed a bunch of photo radar traps in the area
>    while
>         I was
>         >     in the
>         >     >A  A hospital.They neglected to put up any warning signs.
>         With in a
>         >     two
>         >     >A  A weeks of my release from the hospital I got to school
>         zone
>         >     tickets 31
>         >     >A  A in a 20 and 33 in a 20 $80 each (no points or any
>    other
>         >     penalty just
>         >     >A  A cash).
>         >     >A  A The area where I got nailed is at the same high school
>    I
>         >     graduated from
>         >     >A  A and it has a huge piece of property with several acres
>         >     containing a
>         >     >A  A baseball diamond , a football field (with stands) a
>         soccer
>         >     field , it's
>         >     >A  A huge! The school zone signs don't encompass the entire
>         >     property. The
>         >     >A  A end around a 1/4 of a mile past the intersection near
>         the
>         >     school's main
>         >     >A  A entrance. The road that runs along the athletic fields
>         (that
>         >     has no
>         >     >A  A intersections and people generally drive around 40
>    mph)
>         is
>         >     where they
>         >     >A  A installed to Photo radar array. This is the spot where
>         they
>         >     got me.
>         >     >A  A Apparently this has happened all over the county and
>    the
>         >     public has
>         >     >A  A freaked out. So last week they announced that signs
>         would be
>         >     going up
>         >     >A  A and anybody that was ticketed before the signage was
>    in
>         place
>         >     will be
>         >     >A  A getting their tickets rescinded and their fines
>         refunded. So
>         >     that was
>         >     >A  A good news for me!
>         >     >A  A Boyd
>         >     >
>         >     >A  A On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Larry Finch via
>         DeTomaso
>
>         >     >A  A <[1][3][11][23]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>         >     >
>         >     >A  A  A AA  A Tomas wrote -
>         >     >A  A  A I know that the camera boxes use radar but does
>         anyone use
>         >     >A  A  A manually operated radar anymore? I thought they had
>         all
>         >     changed to
>         >     >A  A  A laser guns.
>         >     >A  A  A -----
>         >     >A  A  A Here in CA, the CHP uses radar (Ka band) and laser.
>         >     >A  A  A As I understand it, laser must be from a stationary
>         >     position and
>         >     >A  A  A very close to a
>         >     >A  A  A A straight (not from an angle) shot at the target.
>         >
>         >   >A  A  A I've seen them hiding on highway overpasses to get
>    that
>         >   position.
>         >   >A  A  A Radar now all appears to be instant-on, though some
>         officers
>         >   drive
>         >   >A  A  A with it alway
>         >   >A  A  A s on.
>         >   >A  A  A Radar is not as picky about the aim of the signal,
>    and
>         works
>         >   just
>         >   >A  A  A fine from a mo
>         >   >A  A  A ving vehicle.
>         >   >A  A  A With my Valentine, I find that as long as there is an
>         >   >A  A  A ahead-of-me-rabbit to moti
>         >   >A  A  A vate a Chipie to hit his instant-on, the scatter from
>         that
>         >   radar
>         >   >A  A  A burst
>         >   >A  A  A will trip my detector up to over two miles ahead.
>         >   >A  A  A Same benefit from a radar sitiuated behind you, and
>         with the
>         >   >A  A  A Valentine you'll kn
>         >   >A  A  A ow the direction to look.
>         >   >A  A  A Headed up the 101 years ago to a PCNC meeting, moving
>         at a
>         >   'brisk'
>         >   >A  A  A rate, the rea
>         >   >A  A  A r arrows lit up with plenty of time
>         >   >A  A  A to slow down and thus frustrate the CHP motorcycle
>         officer who
>         >   paced
>         >   >A  A  A in my RH bl
>         >   >A  A  A ind spot for several miles until he finally gave up
>         >   >A  A  A and moved ahead of me.
>         >   >A  A  A Cat and mouse at its finest. :-)
>         >   >A  A  A YMMV
>         >   >A  A  A Larry - "Why no, officer, I don't know why you pulled
>         me over,
>         >   >A  A  A Perhaps you thoug
>         >   >A  A  A ht I had some donuts?"
>         >   >A  A  A _______________________________________________
>         >   >A  A  A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>         >   >A  A  A DeTomaso mailing list
>         >
>
>           >     >A  A  A [2][4][12][24]DeTomaso at poca.com
>           >     >A  A  A
>
>      [3][5][13][25]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>           >     >
>           >     > References
>           >     >
>           >     >A  A 1. [14][26]mailto:[6][15][27]detomaso at poca.com
>           >     >A  A 2. [16][28]mailto:[7][17][29]DeTomaso at poca.com
>           >     >A  A 3.
>           [8][18][30]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>           >
>           >   > _______________________________________________
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>           >   > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
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>           >   >
>      [10][20][32]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>           >
>           >References
>           >
>           >   1. [33]mailto:[21][34]MikeLDrew at aol.com
>           >   2. [35]mailto:[22][36]boyd411 at gmail.com
>           >   3. [37]mailto:[23][38]detomaso at poca.com
>           >   4. [39]mailto:[24][40]DeTomaso at poca.com
>           >   5.
>      [25][41]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>           >   6. [42]mailto:[26][43]detomaso at poca.com
>           >   7. [44]mailto:[27][45]DeTomaso at poca.com
>           >   8.
>      [28][46]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>           >   9. [47]mailto:[29][48]DeTomaso at poca.com
>           >  10.
>      [30][49]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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>         >
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>      References
>         1. mailto:[52]boyd411 at gmail.com
>         2. mailto:[53]will.kooiman at gmail.com
>         3. mailto:[54]MikeLDrew at aol.com
>         4. mailto:[55]detomaso at poca.com
>         5. mailto:[56]detomaso at poca.com
>         6. mailto:[57]fresnofinches at aol.com
>         7. mailto:[58]will.kooiman at gmail.com
>         8. mailto:[59]boyd411 at gmail.com
>         9. mailto:[60]MikeLDrew at aol.com
>        10. mailto:[61]boyd411 at gmail.com
>        11. mailto:[62]detomaso at poca.com
>        12. mailto:[63]DeTomaso at poca.com
>        13. [64]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>        14. [65]mailto:[6]
>        15. mailto:[66]detomaso at poca.com
>        16. [67]mailto:[7]
>        17. mailto:[68]DeTomaso at poca.com
>        18. [69]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>        19. mailto:[70]DeTomaso at poca.com
>        20. [71]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>        21. mailto:[72]MikeLDrew at aol.com
>        22. mailto:[73]boyd411 at gmail.com
>        23. mailto:[74]detomaso at poca.com
>        24. mailto:[75]DeTomaso at poca.com
>        25. [76]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>        26. mailto:[77]detomaso at poca.com
>        27. mailto:[78]DeTomaso at poca.com
>        28. [79]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>        29. mailto:[80]DeTomaso at poca.com
>        30. [81]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>        31. mailto:[82]DeTomaso at poca.com
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>
>    1. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>    2. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>    3. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>    4. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
>    5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>    6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>    7. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
>    8. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>    9. http://www/
>   10. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>   11. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
>   12. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
>   13. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>   14. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
>   15. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>   16. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   17. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   18. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
>   19. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
>   20. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>   21. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>   22. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>   23. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   24. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   25. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   26. mailto:[6][15]
>   27. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   28. mailto:[7][17]
>   29. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   30. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   31. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   32. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   33. mailto:[21]
>   34. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>   35. mailto:[22]
>   36. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>   37. mailto:[23]
>   38. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   39. mailto:[24]
>   40. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   41. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   42. mailto:[26]
>   43. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   44. mailto:[27]
>   45. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   46. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   47. mailto:[29]
>   48. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   49. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   50. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   51. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   52. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>   53. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
>   54. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>   55. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   56. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   57. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
>   58. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
>   59. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>   60. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>   61. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>   62. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   63. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   64. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   65. mailto:[6]
>   66. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   67. mailto:[7]
>   68. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   69. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   70. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   71. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   72. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>   73. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>   74. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   75. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   76. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   77. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>   78. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   79. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   80. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   81. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   82. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>   83. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>   84. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
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Michael L. Shortt
Savannah, Georgia
www.michaelshortt.com
michael at michaelshortt.com
912-232-9390


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   For your consideration,
   I think it is horse pucky.
   Michael
   Light helicopters
   UH-1H: $835 per flight hour[1]A [1]
   Huey II: $535 per flight hour[2]A [2]
   S-76: $1,178 per flight hour (based on 2003 exchange rate of 7.7 $HK /
   USD)A [3][6]
   EC 155 Dauphin: $1,157 per flight hour (based on 2003 exchange rate of
   7.7 $HK / USD)A [4][7]
   HH-65 Dolphin: $5,173 per flight hour (US Coast Guard version)A [5][7]
   Medium-lift helicopters
   UH-60 Blackhawk: $2,199 per flight hour[6]A [3]
   Mi-17: $2,850 per flight hour[7]A [4]A (based on Croatian currency)
   AS 332 Super Puma: $1,883 per flight hour (based on 2003 exchange rate
   of 7.7 $HK / USD)A [8][8]
   CH-47D Chinook: $2,403 - $2,723 per flight hourA [9][11]
   Heavy-lift helicopters
   CH-53E Super Stallion: $20,000 per flight hourA [10][5]
   Attack helicopters
   AH-64 Apache: $3,851 per flight hourA [11][9]
   AH-1S Cobra: $1,569 - $1,757 per flight hourA [12][10]
   Read
   more:A [13]http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/air-force-aviation/helicop
   ters-cost-ownership-6315/#ixzz3M7TxZ4F4

   On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Will Kooiman
   <[14]will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:

     A  A Agreed.A  It is the 1033 program.
     A  A I found the article on google.A  There was a story from 2011
     that
     A  A appeared to be the original, and the rest seemed to be repeats.
     A  A I'm not surprised about the military transferring surplus to
     local law
     A  A enforcement.A  It makes sense, especially if the local law
     enforcement
     A  A has a need for the equipment.
     A  A An accounting hole is also probably being exploited.
     A  A I just don't buy that they transfer the big, dangerous,
     obnoxious
     A  A stuff.
     A  A From: Boyd Casey <[1][15]boyd411 at gmail.com>
     A  A Date: Monday, December 15, 2014 at 11:36 PM
     A  A To: "[2][16]michael at michaelshortt.com"
     <[3][17]michael at michaelshortt.com>
     A  A Cc: Will Kooiman <[4][18]will.kooiman at gmail.com>,
     "[5][19]detomaso at poca.com"
     A  A <[6][20]detomaso at poca.com>, Larry Finch
     <[7][21]fresnofinches at aol.com>, Mike
     A  A Drew <[8][22]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
     A  A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] LPC: Radar in the rain
     A  A I know you can't believe anything you read on the net half of
     what you
     A  A read in the paper and a pct of what you see on TV and the Idea
     of a
     A  A Florida police department having 8 Apache helicopters (or 1) is
     beyond
     A  A belief there are numerous stories on Google that are very
     current,
     A  A Here is one
     A
     A link[9][23]http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/08/20/use-online-data
     base-find
     A  A -military-equipment-local-police-department-stockpiling/
     A  A Do your own search and you will find many more. Regardless if
     the
     A  A Apache story is true or not the fact that the D.O.D. is
     transferring
     A  A tons of military equipment to municipal police departments is a
     fact.
     A  A Boyd
     A  A On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 9:45 PM,
     [10][24]michael at michaelshortt.com
     A  A <[11][25]michael at michaelshortt.com> wrote:
     A  A  A I know a guy that owns eight (8) Cobra Helicopters, used for
     A  A  A personal toys and sometime film work.A  They are a tinker
     toys
     A  A  A compared to an Apache, flying cost of one is in the same
     range per
     A  A  A hour as a fighter jet. Lots of them here flying overhead on
     a daily
     A  A  A basis, I do not believe that any municipal department could
     afford
     A  A  A to maintain one, much less several.
     A  A  A Michael Shortt
     A  A On Dec 15, 2014 9:35 PM, "Will Kooiman"
     <[12][26]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
     A  A wrote:
     A  A  A  A  The article was from 2011, and since we haven't heard
     any reports
     A  A  A of
     A  A  A  A  tanks blowing up in Florida, I'd say they aren't being
     used.
     A  A  A  A  The article was so old, I couldn't find any fact check
     A  A  A information on
     A  A  A  A  it.
     A  A  A  A  If you've ever seen an Apache, you'd realize just how
     ridiculous
     A  A  A this
     A  A  A  A  story is.A  An Apache is a tank killer, and it is a
     super bad at ss
     A  A  A one at
     A  A  A  A  that.A  It has no place in civilian use.
     A  A  A  A  If the evidence is real (8 helicopters at $18M each),
     then maybe
     A  A  A it is
     A  A  A  A  a coverup for something else - like embezzlement.A  That
     makes a
     A  A  A lot
     A  A  A  A  more sense than civilian attack helicopters.
     A  A  A  A  From: Boyd Casey <[1][13][27]boyd411 at gmail.com>
     A  A  A  A  Date: Monday, December 15, 2014 at 11:29 AM
     A  A  A  A  To: Will Kooiman <[2][14][28]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
     A  A  A  A  Cc: Mike Drew <[3][15][29]MikeLDrew at aol.com>,
     A  A  A "[4][16][30]detomaso at poca.com"
     A  A  A  A  <[5][17][31]detomaso at poca.com>, Larry Finch
     A  A  A <[6][18][32]fresnofinches at aol.com>
     A  A  A  A  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] LPC: Radar in the rain
     A  A  A  A  The article said they received 8 Apaches which suggest
     to me that
     A  A  A  A  their plans are for more then a "static display".
     A  A  A  A  As I pointed out in my post I have no verification of
     this
     A  A  A information
     A  A  A  A  so we don't know if it is factual or not.
     A  A  A  A  Boyd
     A  A  A  A  On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 12:51 AM, Will Kooiman
     A  A  A  A  <[7][19][33]will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
     A  A  A  A  A  I don(c)oet think they get military surplus because
     they need
     A  A  A it.
     A  A  A  A  A  They accept the surplus because the military wants to
     get rid
     A  A  A of
     A  A  A  A  A  their
     A  A  A  A  A  surplus.
     A  A  A  A  A  Now, whether they accepted an Apache or not, I rather
     doubt it.
     A  A  A  A  A  Aircraft
     A  A  A  A  A  are expensive to maintain.A  They wouldn(c)oet accept
     an Apache
     A  A  A  A  A  unless they
     A  A  A  A  A  planned on turning it into a non-functioning display.
     A  A  A That(c)oes
     A  A  A  A  A  more likely
     A  A  A  A  A  Internet garbage.
     A  A  A  A  On 12/14/14, 1:13 PM, "Boyd Casey"
     <[8][20][34]boyd411 at gmail.com>
     A  A wrote:
     A  A  A  A  >A  A The current reality makes George Orwell's "1984"
     look like a
     A  A  A  A  fairy
     A  A  A  A  >A  A tale, and I'm afraid it's only going to get worse.
     I'm all for
     A  A  A  A  "the
     A  A  A  A  >A  A rule of law" andAA  "Law and Order" but America
     was never
     A  A  A  A  supposed to be
     A  A  A  A  >A  A about living in a police state. I recently read
     that a
     A  A municipal
     A  A  A  A  police
     A  A  A  A  >A  A department obtained some surplus Apache
     helicopters from the
     A  A  A  A  D.O.D.,(
     A  A  A  A  >A  A Knowing you can't take what you read as fact ,) it
     still begs
     A  A  A  A  the
     A  A  A  A  >A  A question What does a police department in America
     need with
     A  A  A  A  Apache
     A  A  A  A  >A  A helicopters designed to take out tanks ( hellfire
     missiles and
     A  A  A  A  Gatling
     A  A  A  A  >A  A cannon that fire depleted uranium armor piercing
     shells?) What
     A  A  A  A  are they
     A  A  A  A  >A  A planning for or what do they expect? The prospects
     of what's
     A  A  A  A  around the
     A  A  A  A  >A  A corner are very frightening. The continued push to
     upscale the
     A  A  A  A  armament
     A  A  A  A  >A  A levels of the police and the attemptAA  to disarm
     the public
     A  A  A  A  makes theA
     A  A  A  A  >A  A 2nd amendment fringe groups seem like they are not
     as far out
     A  A on
     A  A  A  A  the
     A  A  A  A  >A  A fringe as the media attempts to portray.
     A  A  A  A  >A  A I feel safe in saying this is not what the members
     of my
     A  A family
     A  A  A  A  who
     A  A  A  A  >A  A dedicated large parts of their lives (or gave
     their lives) had
     A  A  A  A  in mind
     A  A  A  A  >A  A nor do I suspect did you when you put on the
     uniform.
     A  A  A  A  >A  A Hugh
     A  A  A  A  >
     A  A  A  A  >A  A On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Mike Drew
     A  A  A  A  A  <[1][9][21][35]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A wrote:
     A  A  A  A  A  >
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A Boyd,
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A All it would take would be one
     public-spirited citizen
     A  A  A with a
     A  A  A  A  A  big
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A shotgun or rifle to put those speed cameras
     right and
     A  A  A then all
     A  A  A  A  A  would
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A be good in your corner of the world. :)
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A England is especially fond of speed cameras.
     For awhile,
     A  A  A  A  A  charitable
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A people were hanging old tires from the
     camera boxes,
     A  A  A pouring
     A  A  A  A  A  gas
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A into them and then setting them on fire.
     While these
     A  A  A Robin
     A  A  A  A  A  Hoods
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A were celebrated by the people, the
     government didn't have
     A  A  A much
     A  A  A  A  A  of a
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A sense of humor about it, and a few people
     got very long
     A  A  A prison
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A sentences (5-10 yrs maybe?) after the cops
     set up cameras
     A  A  A to
     A  A  A  A  A  look AT
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A the cameras and used those to track down the
     rebels. Once
     A  A  A word
     A  A  A  A  A  got
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A out about that, the practice pretty much
     died out....
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A Mike
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A Sent from my iPhone
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A On Dec 14, 2014, at 11:18, Boyd Casey
     A  A  A  A  <[2][10][22][36]boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A The benefit (to the police) of the radar
     gun is it's
     A  A  A  A  "instant
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A on" which
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A makes a radar detector all but useless.
     (unless as
     A  A Larry
     A  A  A  A  said
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A you are
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A fortunate enough to have the police try
     to get someone
     A  A  A  A  in
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A front of you
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A and your detector picks up the residual
     signal. Other
     A  A  A  A  wise by
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A the time
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A you hear the warning you have already
     been clocked!
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A A A A A A AAA  On a side note there has
     been a recent
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A development here on
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A long Island concerning photo radar.
     Apparently the
     A  A  A  A  authorities
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A installed a bunch of photo radar traps
     in the area
     A  A while
     A  A  A  A  I was
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A in the
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A hospital.They neglected to put up any
     warning signs.
     A  A  A  A  With in a
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A two
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A weeks of my release from the hospital I
     got to school
     A  A  A  A  zone
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A tickets 31
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A in a 20 and 33 in a 20 $80 each (no
     points or any
     A  A other
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A penalty just
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A cash).
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A The area where I got nailed is at the
     same high school
     A  A I
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A graduated from
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A and it has a huge piece of property with
     several acres
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A containing a
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A baseball diamond , a football field
     (with stands) a
     A  A  A  A  soccer
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A field , it's
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A huge! The school zone signs don't
     encompass the entire
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A property. The
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A end around a 1/4 of a mile past the
     intersection near
     A  A  A  A  the
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A school's main
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A entrance. The road that runs along the
     athletic fields
     A  A  A  A  (that
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A has no
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A intersections and people generally drive
     around 40
     A  A mph)
     A  A  A  A  is
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A where they
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A installed to Photo radar array. This is
     the spot where
     A  A  A  A  they
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A got me.
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A Apparently this has happened all over
     the county and
     A  A the
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A public has
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A freaked out. So last week they announced
     that signs
     A  A  A  A  would be
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A going up
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A and anybody that was ticketed before the
     signage was
     A  A in
     A  A  A  A  place
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A will be
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A getting their tickets rescinded and
     their fines
     A  A  A  A  refunded. So
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A that was
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A good news for me!
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A Boyd
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Larry
     Finch via
     A  A  A  A  DeTomaso
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A <[1][3][11][23][37]detomaso at poca.com>
     wrote:
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  AA  A AAA  A Tomas wrote -
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  AA  A I know that the camera boxes use
     radar but does
     A  A  A  A  anyone use
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  AA  A manually operated radar anymore? I
     thought they had
     A  A  A  A  all
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A changed to
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  AA  A laser guns.
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  AA  A -----
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  AA  A Here in CA, the CHP uses radar (Ka
     band) and laser.
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  AA  A As I understand it, laser must be
     from a stationary
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A position and
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  AA  A very close to a
     A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  AA  A A straight (not from an angle) shot
     at the target.
     A  A  A  A  >
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A I've seen them hiding on highway
     overpasses to get
     A  A that
     A  A  A  A  >A  A position.
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A Radar now all appears to be instant-on,
     though some
     A  A  A  A  officers
     A  A  A  A  >A  A drive
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A with it alway
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A s on.
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A Radar is not as picky about the aim of
     the signal,
     A  A and
     A  A  A  A  works
     A  A  A  A  >A  A just
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A fine from a mo
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A ving vehicle.
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A With my Valentine, I find that as long
     as there is an
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A ahead-of-me-rabbit to moti
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A vate a Chipie to hit his instant-on,
     the scatter from
     A  A  A  A  that
     A  A  A  A  >A  A radar
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A burst
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A will trip my detector up to over two
     miles ahead.
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A Same benefit from a radar sitiuated
     behind you, and
     A  A  A  A  with the
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A Valentine you'll kn
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A ow the direction to look.
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A Headed up the 101 years ago to a PCNC
     meeting, moving
     A  A  A  A  at a
     A  A  A  A  >A  A 'brisk'
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A rate, the rea
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A r arrows lit up with plenty of time
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A to slow down and thus frustrate the CHP
     motorcycle
     A  A  A  A  officer who
     A  A  A  A  >A  A paced
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A in my RH bl
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A ind spot for several miles until he
     finally gave up
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A and moved ahead of me.
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A Cat and mouse at its finest. :-)
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A YMMV
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A Larry - "Why no, officer, I don't know
     why you pulled
     A  A  A  A  me over,
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A Perhaps you thoug
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A ht I had some donuts?"
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A
     _______________________________________________
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
     A  A  A  A  >A  A >AA  AA  A DeTomaso mailing list
     A  A  A  A  >
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  AA  A
     [2][4][12][24][38]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  AA  A
     A  A
     A [3][5][13][25][39]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.c
     om
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A > References
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A 1.
     [14][26]mailto:[6][15][27][40]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A 2.
     [16][28]mailto:[7][17][29][41]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A  A >AA  A 3.
     A  A  A  A  A
     [8][18][30][42]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A  A  A  >
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A >
     _______________________________________________
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A >
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A >
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A > DeTomaso mailing list
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A > [9][19][31][43]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A >
     A  A
     A [10][20][32][44]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A  A  A  >
     A  A  A  A  A  >References
     A  A  A  A  A  >
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A 1. [33]mailto:[21][34][45]MikeLDrew at aol.com
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A 2. [35]mailto:[22][36][46]boyd411 at gmail.com
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A 3. [37]mailto:[23][38][47]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A 4. [39]mailto:[24][40][48]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A 5.
     A  A
     A [25][41][49]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A 6. [42]mailto:[26][43][50]detomaso at poca.com
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     A  A
     A [28][46][52]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A  A  A  >A  A 9. [47]mailto:[29][48][53]DeTomaso at poca.com
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     A  A
     A [30][49][54]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A  A  >_______________________________________________
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     >[32][51][56]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A References
     A  A  A  A  1. mailto:[52][57]boyd411 at gmail.com
     A  A  A  A  2. mailto:[53][58]will.kooiman at gmail.com
     A  A  A  A  3. mailto:[54][59]MikeLDrew at aol.com
     A  A  A  A  4. mailto:[55][60]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A  5. mailto:[56][61]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A  6. mailto:[57][62]fresnofinches at aol.com
     A  A  A  A  7. mailto:[58][63]will.kooiman at gmail.com
     A  A  A  A  8. mailto:[59][64]boyd411 at gmail.com
     A  A  A  A  9. mailto:[60][65]MikeLDrew at aol.com
     A  A  A  A 10. mailto:[61][66]boyd411 at gmail.com
     A  A  A  A 11. mailto:[62][67]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A 12. mailto:[63][68]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A 13.
     [64][69]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A  A 14. [65]mailto:[6]
     A  A  A  A 15. mailto:[66][70]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A 16. [67]mailto:[7]
     A  A  A  A 17. mailto:[68][71]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A 18.
     [69][72]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A  A 19. mailto:[70][73]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A 20.
     [71][74]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A  A 21. mailto:[72][75]MikeLDrew at aol.com
     A  A  A  A 22. mailto:[73][76]boyd411 at gmail.com
     A  A  A  A 23. mailto:[74][77]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A 24. mailto:[75][78]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A 25.
     [76][79]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A  A 26. mailto:[77][80]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A 27. mailto:[78][81]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A 28.
     [79][82]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A  A 29. mailto:[80][83]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A 30.
     [81][84]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  A  A  A 31. mailto:[82][85]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  A  A  A 32.
     [83][86]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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     A  A 5. mailto:[93]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A 6. mailto:[94]detomaso at poca.com
     A  A 7. mailto:[95]fresnofinches at aol.com
     A  A 8. mailto:[96]MikeLDrew at aol.com
     A  A 9. [97]http://www/
     A  10. mailto:[98]michael at michaelshortt.com
     A  11. mailto:[99]michael at michaelshortt.com
     A  12. mailto:[100]will.kooiman at gmail.com
     A  13. mailto:[101]boyd411 at gmail.com
     A  14. mailto:[102]will.kooiman at gmail.com
     A  15. mailto:[103]MikeLDrew at aol.com
     A  16. mailto:[104]detomaso at poca.com
     A  17. mailto:[105]detomaso at poca.com
     A  18. mailto:[106]fresnofinches at aol.com
     A  19. mailto:[107]will.kooiman at gmail.com
     A  20. mailto:[108]boyd411 at gmail.com
     A  21. mailto:[109]MikeLDrew at aol.com
     A  22. mailto:[110]boyd411 at gmail.com
     A  23. mailto:[111]detomaso at poca.com
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     A  25. [113]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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     A  29. mailto:[115]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  30. [116]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  31. mailto:[117]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  32. [118]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  33. mailto:[21]
     A  34. mailto:[119]MikeLDrew at aol.com
     A  35. mailto:[22]
     A  36. mailto:[120]boyd411 at gmail.com
     A  37. mailto:[23]
     A  38. mailto:[121]detomaso at poca.com
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     A  40. mailto:[122]DeTomaso at poca.com
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     A  46. [126]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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     A  49. [128]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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     A  57. mailto:[136]fresnofinches at aol.com
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     A  66. mailto:[144]detomaso at poca.com
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     A  68. mailto:[145]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  69. [146]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
     A  70. mailto:[147]DeTomaso at poca.com
     A  71. [148]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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References

   1. http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2004/Mar/Armys_Old.htm
   2. http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2004/Mar/Armys_Old.htm
   3. http://www.budget.gov.hk/2003/eng/head166.pdf
   4. http://www.budget.gov.hk/2003/eng/head166.pdf
   5. http://www.uscg.mil/d13/publicaffairs/news/feature_stories/false_distress_page.htm
   6. http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2004/Mar/Armys_Old.htm
   7. http://mst.texterity.com/mst/2006-1/?pg=30
   8. http://www.budget.gov.hk/2003/eng/head166.pdf
   9. http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/comments/c342.htm
  10. http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2007/05/ch53k-the-us-marines-hlr-helicopter-program-updated/index.php
  11. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/rotary.htm
  12. http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/comments/c342.htm
  13. http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/air-force-aviation/helicopters-cost-ownership-6315/#ixzz3M7TxZ4F4
  14. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
  15. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  16. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  17. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  18. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
  19. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  20. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  21. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
  22. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  23. http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/08/20/use-online-database-find
  24. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  25. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  26. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
  27. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  28. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
  29. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  30. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  31. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  32. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
  33. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
  34. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  35. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  36. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  37. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  38. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  39. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  40. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  41. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  42. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  43. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  44. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  45. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  46. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  47. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  48. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  49. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  50. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  51. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  52. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  53. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  54. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  55. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  56. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  57. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  58. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
  59. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  60. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  61. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  62. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
  63. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
  64. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  65. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  66. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  67. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  68. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  69. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  70. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  71. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  72. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  73. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  74. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  75. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  76. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  77. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  78. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  79. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  80. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  81. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  82. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  83. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  84. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  85. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  86. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  87. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
  88. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
  89. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
  90. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  91. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  92. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
  93. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  94. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
  95. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
  96. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
  97. http://www/
  98. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
  99. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
 100. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
 101. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
 102. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
 103. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 104. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 105. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 106. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
 107. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
 108. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
 109. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 110. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
 111. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 112. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 113. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 114. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 115. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 116. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 117. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 118. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 119. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 120. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
 121. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 122. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 123. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 124. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 125. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 126. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 127. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 128. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 129. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 130. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 131. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
 132. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
 133. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 134. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 135. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 136. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
 137. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
 138. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
 139. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 140. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
 141. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 142. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 143. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 144. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 145. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 146. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 147. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 148. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 149. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
 150. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
 151. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 152. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 153. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 154. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
 155. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 156. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 157. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 158. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 159. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 160. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 161. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 162. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 163. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
 164. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
 165. http://www.michaelshortt.com/
 166. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com


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