[DeTomaso] LPC: Radar in the rain
Will Kooiman
will.kooiman at gmail.com
Tue Dec 16 21:40:53 EST 2014
Agreed. It is the 1033 program.
I found the article on google. There was a story from 2011 that appeared to
be the original, and the rest seemed to be repeats.
I¹m not surprised about the military transferring surplus to local law
enforcement. It makes sense, especially if the local law enforcement has a
need for the equipment.
An accounting hole is also probably being exploited.
I just don¹t buy that they transfer the big, dangerous, obnoxious stuff.
From: Boyd Casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
Date: Monday, December 15, 2014 at 11:36 PM
To: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michael at michaelshortt.com>
Cc: Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>, "detomaso at poca.com"
<detomaso at poca.com>, Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>, Mike Drew
<MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] LPC: Radar in the rain
I know you can't believe anything you read on the net half of what you read
in the paper and a pct of what you see on TV and the Idea of a Florida
police department having 8 Apache helicopters (or 1) is beyond belief there
are numerous stories on Google that are very current,
Here is one
linkhttp://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/08/20/use-online-database-find-militar
y-equipment-local-police-department-stockpiling/
Do your own search and you will find many more. Regardless if the Apache
story is true or not the fact that the D.O.D. is transferring tons of
military equipment to municipal police departments is a fact.
Boyd
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 9:45 PM, michael at michaelshortt.com
<michael at michaelshortt.com> wrote:
> I know a guy that owns eight (8) Cobra Helicopters, used for personal toys and
> sometime film work. They are a tinker toys compared to an Apache, flying cost
> of one is in the same range per hour as a fighter jet. Lots of them here
> flying overhead on a daily basis, I do not believe that any municipal
> department could afford to maintain one, much less several.
>
> Michael Shortt
>
> On Dec 15, 2014 9:35 PM, "Will Kooiman" <will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The article was from 2011, and since we haven't heard any reports of
>> tanks blowing up in Florida, I'd say they aren't being used.
>>
>> The article was so old, I couldn't find any fact check information on
>> it.
>>
>> If you've ever seen an Apache, you'd realize just how ridiculous this
>> story is. An Apache is a tank killer, and it is a super bad at ss one at
>> that. It has no place in civilian use.
>>
>> If the evidence is real (8 helicopters at $18M each), then maybe it is
>> a coverup for something else - like embezzlement. That makes a lot
>> more sense than civilian attack helicopters.
>>
>> From: Boyd Casey <[1]boyd411 at gmail.com>
>> Date: Monday, December 15, 2014 at 11:29 AM
>> To: Will Kooiman <[2]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Mike Drew <[3]MikeLDrew at aol.com>, "[4]detomaso at poca.com"
>> <[5]detomaso at poca.com>, Larry Finch <[6]fresnofinches at aol.com>
>> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] LPC: Radar in the rain
>>
>> The article said they received 8 Apaches which suggest to me that
>> their plans are for more then a "static display".
>> As I pointed out in my post I have no verification of this information
>> so we don't know if it is factual or not.
>> Boyd
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 12:51 AM, Will Kooiman
>> <[7]will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I don(c)oet think they get military surplus because they need it.
>> They accept the surplus because the military wants to get rid of
>> their
>> surplus.
>> Now, whether they accepted an Apache or not, I rather doubt it.
>> Aircraft
>> are expensive to maintain. They wouldn(c)oet accept an Apache
>> unless they
>> planned on turning it into a non-functioning display. That(c)oes
>> more likely
>> Internet garbage.
>>
>> On 12/14/14, 1:13 PM, "Boyd Casey" <[8]boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > The current reality makes George Orwell's "1984" look like a
>> fairy
>>> > tale, and I'm afraid it's only going to get worse. I'm all for
>> "the
>>> > rule of law" andA "Law and Order" but America was never
>> supposed to be
>>> > about living in a police state. I recently read that a municipal
>> police
>>> > department obtained some surplus Apache helicopters from the
>> D.O.D.,(
>>> > Knowing you can't take what you read as fact ,) it still begs
>> the
>>> > question What does a police department in America need with
>> Apache
>>> > helicopters designed to take out tanks ( hellfire missiles and
>> Gatling
>>> > cannon that fire depleted uranium armor piercing shells?) What
>> are they
>>> > planning for or what do they expect? The prospects of what's
>> around the
>>> > corner are very frightening. The continued push to upscale the
>> armament
>>> > levels of the police and the attemptA to disarm the public
>> makes theA
>>> > 2nd amendment fringe groups seem like they are not as far out on
>> the
>>> > fringe as the media attempts to portray.
>>> > I feel safe in saying this is not what the members of my family
>> who
>>> > dedicated large parts of their lives (or gave their lives) had
>> in mind
>>> > nor do I suspect did you when you put on the uniform.
>>> > Hugh
>>> >
>>> > On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Mike Drew
>> <[1][9]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Boyd,
>>> > All it would take would be one public-spirited citizen with a
>> big
>>> > shotgun or rifle to put those speed cameras right and then all
>> would
>>> > be good in your corner of the world. :)
>>> > England is especially fond of speed cameras. For awhile,
>> charitable
>>> > people were hanging old tires from the camera boxes, pouring
>> gas
>>> > into them and then setting them on fire. While these Robin
>> Hoods
>>> > were celebrated by the people, the government didn't have much
>> of a
>>> > sense of humor about it, and a few people got very long prison
>>> > sentences (5-10 yrs maybe?) after the cops set up cameras to
>> look AT
>>> > the cameras and used those to track down the rebels. Once word
>> got
>>> > out about that, the practice pretty much died out....
>>> > Mike
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> > On Dec 14, 2014, at 11:18, Boyd Casey
>> <[2][10]boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > >A A The benefit (to the police) of the radar gun is it's
>> "instant
>>> > on" which
>>>> > >A A makes a radar detector all but useless. (unless as Larry
>> said
>>> > you are
>>>> > >A A fortunate enough to have the police try to get someone
>> in
>>> > front of you
>>>> > >A A and your detector picks up the residual signal. Other
>> wise by
>>> > the time
>>>> > >A A you hear the warning you have already been clocked!
>>>> > >A A A A A A A AA On a side note there has been a recent
>>> > development here on
>>>> > >A A long Island concerning photo radar. Apparently the
>> authorities
>>>> > >A A installed a bunch of photo radar traps in the area while
>> I was
>>> > in the
>>>> > >A A hospital.They neglected to put up any warning signs.
>> With in a
>>> > two
>>>> > >A A weeks of my release from the hospital I got to school
>> zone
>>> > tickets 31
>>>> > >A A in a 20 and 33 in a 20 $80 each (no points or any other
>>> > penalty just
>>>> > >A A cash).
>>>> > >A A The area where I got nailed is at the same high school I
>>> > graduated from
>>>> > >A A and it has a huge piece of property with several acres
>>> > containing a
>>>> > >A A baseball diamond , a football field (with stands) a
>> soccer
>>> > field , it's
>>>> > >A A huge! The school zone signs don't encompass the entire
>>> > property. The
>>>> > >A A end around a 1/4 of a mile past the intersection near
>> the
>>> > school's main
>>>> > >A A entrance. The road that runs along the athletic fields
>> (that
>>> > has no
>>>> > >A A intersections and people generally drive around 40 mph)
>> is
>>> > where they
>>>> > >A A installed to Photo radar array. This is the spot where
>> they
>>> > got me.
>>>> > >A A Apparently this has happened all over the county and the
>>> > public has
>>>> > >A A freaked out. So last week they announced that signs
>> would be
>>> > going up
>>>> > >A A and anybody that was ticketed before the signage was in
>> place
>>> > will be
>>>> > >A A getting their tickets rescinded and their fines
>> refunded. So
>>> > that was
>>>> > >A A good news for me!
>>>> > >A A Boyd
>>>> > >
>>>> > >A A On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Larry Finch via
>> DeTomaso
>>>> > >A A <[1][3][11]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > >A A A AA A Tomas wrote -
>>>> > >A A A I know that the camera boxes use radar but does
>> anyone use
>>>> > >A A A manually operated radar anymore? I thought they had
>> all
>>> > changed to
>>>> > >A A A laser guns.
>>>> > >A A A -----
>>>> > >A A A Here in CA, the CHP uses radar (Ka band) and laser.
>>>> > >A A A As I understand it, laser must be from a stationary
>>> > position and
>>>> > >A A A very close to a
>>>> > >A A A A straight (not from an angle) shot at the target.
>>> >
>>>> > >A A A I've seen them hiding on highway overpasses to get that
>>> > position.
>>>> > >A A A Radar now all appears to be instant-on, though some
>> officers
>>> > drive
>>>> > >A A A with it alway
>>>> > >A A A s on.
>>>> > >A A A Radar is not as picky about the aim of the signal, and
>> works
>>> > just
>>>> > >A A A fine from a mo
>>>> > >A A A ving vehicle.
>>>> > >A A A With my Valentine, I find that as long as there is an
>>>> > >A A A ahead-of-me-rabbit to moti
>>>> > >A A A vate a Chipie to hit his instant-on, the scatter from
>> that
>>> > radar
>>>> > >A A A burst
>>>> > >A A A will trip my detector up to over two miles ahead.
>>>> > >A A A Same benefit from a radar sitiuated behind you, and
>> with the
>>>> > >A A A Valentine you'll kn
>>>> > >A A A ow the direction to look.
>>>> > >A A A Headed up the 101 years ago to a PCNC meeting, moving
>> at a
>>> > 'brisk'
>>>> > >A A A rate, the rea
>>>> > >A A A r arrows lit up with plenty of time
>>>> > >A A A to slow down and thus frustrate the CHP motorcycle
>> officer who
>>> > paced
>>>> > >A A A in my RH bl
>>>> > >A A A ind spot for several miles until he finally gave up
>>>> > >A A A and moved ahead of me.
>>>> > >A A A Cat and mouse at its finest. :-)
>>>> > >A A A YMMV
>>>> > >A A A Larry - "Why no, officer, I don't know why you pulled
>> me over,
>>>> > >A A A Perhaps you thoug
>>>> > >A A A ht I had some donuts?"
>>>> > >A A A _______________________________________________
>>>> > >A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>> > >A A A DeTomaso mailing list
>>> >
>>>> > >A A A [2][4][12]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>>> > >A A A
>> [3][5][13]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>>> > >
>>>> > > References
>>>> > >
>>>> > >A A 1. [14]mailto:[6][15]detomaso at poca.com
>>>> > >A A 2. [16]mailto:[7][17]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>>> > >A A 3.
>> [8][18]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>> >
>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>>> > >
>>>> > > DeTomaso mailing list
>>>> > > [9][19]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>>> > > [10][20]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>> >
>>> >References
>>> >
>>> > 1. mailto:[21]MikeLDrew at aol.com
>>> > 2. mailto:[22]boyd411 at gmail.com
>>> > 3. mailto:[23]detomaso at poca.com
>>> > 4. mailto:[24]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> > 5. [25]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>> > 6. mailto:[26]detomaso at poca.com
>>> > 7. mailto:[27]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> > 8. [28]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>> > 9. mailto:[29]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> > 10. [30]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>>> >_______________________________________________
>>> >
>>> >Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>> >
>>> >DeTomaso mailing list
>>> >[31]DeTomaso at poca.com
>>> >[32]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>> 2. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
>> 3. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>> 4. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 6. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
>> 7. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
>> 8. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>> 9. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>> 10. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>> 11. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 12. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 13. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 14. mailto:[6]
>> 15. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 16. mailto:[7]
>> 17. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 18. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 19. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 20. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 21. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
>> 22. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
>> 23. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 24. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 25. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 26. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
>> 27. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 28. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 29. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 30. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>> 31. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
>> 32. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
>>
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at poca.com
>> http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.) use the
>> links above.
>>
-------------- next part --------------
Agreed. It is the 1033 program.
I found the article on google. There was a story from 2011 that
appeared to be the original, and the rest seemed to be repeats.
I'm not surprised about the military transferring surplus to local law
enforcement. It makes sense, especially if the local law enforcement
has a need for the equipment.
An accounting hole is also probably being exploited.
I just don't buy that they transfer the big, dangerous, obnoxious
stuff.
From: Boyd Casey <[1]boyd411 at gmail.com>
Date: Monday, December 15, 2014 at 11:36 PM
To: "[2]michael at michaelshortt.com" <[3]michael at michaelshortt.com>
Cc: Will Kooiman <[4]will.kooiman at gmail.com>, "[5]detomaso at poca.com"
<[6]detomaso at poca.com>, Larry Finch <[7]fresnofinches at aol.com>, Mike
Drew <[8]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] LPC: Radar in the rain
I know you can't believe anything you read on the net half of what you
read in the paper and a pct of what you see on TV and the Idea of a
Florida police department having 8 Apache helicopters (or 1) is beyond
belief there are numerous stories on Google that are very current,
Here is one
link[9]http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/08/20/use-online-database-find
-military-equipment-local-police-department-stockpiling/
Do your own search and you will find many more. Regardless if the
Apache story is true or not the fact that the D.O.D. is transferring
tons of military equipment to municipal police departments is a fact.
Boyd
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 9:45 PM, [10]michael at michaelshortt.com
<[11]michael at michaelshortt.com> wrote:
I know a guy that owns eight (8) Cobra Helicopters, used for
personal toys and sometime film work. They are a tinker toys
compared to an Apache, flying cost of one is in the same range per
hour as a fighter jet. Lots of them here flying overhead on a daily
basis, I do not believe that any municipal department could afford
to maintain one, much less several.
Michael Shortt
On Dec 15, 2014 9:35 PM, "Will Kooiman" <[12]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
wrote:
The article was from 2011, and since we haven't heard any reports
of
tanks blowing up in Florida, I'd say they aren't being used.
The article was so old, I couldn't find any fact check
information on
it.
If you've ever seen an Apache, you'd realize just how ridiculous
this
story is. An Apache is a tank killer, and it is a super bad at ss
one at
that. It has no place in civilian use.
If the evidence is real (8 helicopters at $18M each), then maybe
it is
a coverup for something else - like embezzlement. That makes a
lot
more sense than civilian attack helicopters.
From: Boyd Casey <[1][13]boyd411 at gmail.com>
Date: Monday, December 15, 2014 at 11:29 AM
To: Will Kooiman <[2][14]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
Cc: Mike Drew <[3][15]MikeLDrew at aol.com>,
"[4][16]detomaso at poca.com"
<[5][17]detomaso at poca.com>, Larry Finch
<[6][18]fresnofinches at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] LPC: Radar in the rain
The article said they received 8 Apaches which suggest to me that
their plans are for more then a "static display".
As I pointed out in my post I have no verification of this
information
so we don't know if it is factual or not.
Boyd
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 12:51 AM, Will Kooiman
<[7][19]will.kooiman at gmail.com> wrote:
I don(c)oet think they get military surplus because they need
it.
They accept the surplus because the military wants to get rid
of
their
surplus.
Now, whether they accepted an Apache or not, I rather doubt it.
Aircraft
are expensive to maintain. They wouldn(c)oet accept an Apache
unless they
planned on turning it into a non-functioning display.
That(c)oes
more likely
Internet garbage.
On 12/14/14, 1:13 PM, "Boyd Casey" <[8][20]boyd411 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> The current reality makes George Orwell's "1984" look like a
fairy
> tale, and I'm afraid it's only going to get worse. I'm all for
"the
> rule of law" andA "Law and Order" but America was never
supposed to be
> about living in a police state. I recently read that a
municipal
police
> department obtained some surplus Apache helicopters from the
D.O.D.,(
> Knowing you can't take what you read as fact ,) it still begs
the
> question What does a police department in America need with
Apache
> helicopters designed to take out tanks ( hellfire missiles and
Gatling
> cannon that fire depleted uranium armor piercing shells?) What
are they
> planning for or what do they expect? The prospects of what's
around the
> corner are very frightening. The continued push to upscale the
armament
> levels of the police and the attemptA to disarm the public
makes theA
> 2nd amendment fringe groups seem like they are not as far out
on
the
> fringe as the media attempts to portray.
> I feel safe in saying this is not what the members of my
family
who
> dedicated large parts of their lives (or gave their lives) had
in mind
> nor do I suspect did you when you put on the uniform.
> Hugh
>
> On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Mike Drew
<[1][9][21]MikeLDrew at aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> Boyd,
> All it would take would be one public-spirited citizen
with a
big
> shotgun or rifle to put those speed cameras right and
then all
would
> be good in your corner of the world. :)
> England is especially fond of speed cameras. For awhile,
charitable
> people were hanging old tires from the camera boxes,
pouring
gas
> into them and then setting them on fire. While these
Robin
Hoods
> were celebrated by the people, the government didn't have
much
of a
> sense of humor about it, and a few people got very long
prison
> sentences (5-10 yrs maybe?) after the cops set up cameras
to
look AT
> the cameras and used those to track down the rebels. Once
word
got
> out about that, the practice pretty much died out....
> Mike
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 14, 2014, at 11:18, Boyd Casey
<[2][10][22]boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >A A The benefit (to the police) of the radar gun is it's
"instant
> on" which
> >A A makes a radar detector all but useless. (unless as
Larry
said
> you are
> >A A fortunate enough to have the police try to get someone
in
> front of you
> >A A and your detector picks up the residual signal. Other
wise by
> the time
> >A A you hear the warning you have already been clocked!
> >A A A A A A A AA On a side note there has been a recent
> development here on
> >A A long Island concerning photo radar. Apparently the
authorities
> >A A installed a bunch of photo radar traps in the area
while
I was
> in the
> >A A hospital.They neglected to put up any warning signs.
With in a
> two
> >A A weeks of my release from the hospital I got to school
zone
> tickets 31
> >A A in a 20 and 33 in a 20 $80 each (no points or any
other
> penalty just
> >A A cash).
> >A A The area where I got nailed is at the same high school
I
> graduated from
> >A A and it has a huge piece of property with several acres
> containing a
> >A A baseball diamond , a football field (with stands) a
soccer
> field , it's
> >A A huge! The school zone signs don't encompass the entire
> property. The
> >A A end around a 1/4 of a mile past the intersection near
the
> school's main
> >A A entrance. The road that runs along the athletic fields
(that
> has no
> >A A intersections and people generally drive around 40
mph)
is
> where they
> >A A installed to Photo radar array. This is the spot where
they
> got me.
> >A A Apparently this has happened all over the county and
the
> public has
> >A A freaked out. So last week they announced that signs
would be
> going up
> >A A and anybody that was ticketed before the signage was
in
place
> will be
> >A A getting their tickets rescinded and their fines
refunded. So
> that was
> >A A good news for me!
> >A A Boyd
> >
> >A A On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Larry Finch via
DeTomaso
> >A A <[1][3][11][23]detomaso at poca.com> wrote:
> >
> >A A A AA A Tomas wrote -
> >A A A I know that the camera boxes use radar but does
anyone use
> >A A A manually operated radar anymore? I thought they had
all
> changed to
> >A A A laser guns.
> >A A A -----
> >A A A Here in CA, the CHP uses radar (Ka band) and laser.
> >A A A As I understand it, laser must be from a stationary
> position and
> >A A A very close to a
> >A A A A straight (not from an angle) shot at the target.
>
> >A A A I've seen them hiding on highway overpasses to get
that
> position.
> >A A A Radar now all appears to be instant-on, though some
officers
> drive
> >A A A with it alway
> >A A A s on.
> >A A A Radar is not as picky about the aim of the signal,
and
works
> just
> >A A A fine from a mo
> >A A A ving vehicle.
> >A A A With my Valentine, I find that as long as there is an
> >A A A ahead-of-me-rabbit to moti
> >A A A vate a Chipie to hit his instant-on, the scatter from
that
> radar
> >A A A burst
> >A A A will trip my detector up to over two miles ahead.
> >A A A Same benefit from a radar sitiuated behind you, and
with the
> >A A A Valentine you'll kn
> >A A A ow the direction to look.
> >A A A Headed up the 101 years ago to a PCNC meeting, moving
at a
> 'brisk'
> >A A A rate, the rea
> >A A A r arrows lit up with plenty of time
> >A A A to slow down and thus frustrate the CHP motorcycle
officer who
> paced
> >A A A in my RH bl
> >A A A ind spot for several miles until he finally gave up
> >A A A and moved ahead of me.
> >A A A Cat and mouse at its finest. :-)
> >A A A YMMV
> >A A A Larry - "Why no, officer, I don't know why you pulled
me over,
> >A A A Perhaps you thoug
> >A A A ht I had some donuts?"
> >A A A _______________________________________________
> >A A A Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >A A A DeTomaso mailing list
>
> >A A A [2][4][12][24]DeTomaso at poca.com
> >A A A
[3][5][13][25]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> >
> > References
> >
> >A A 1. [14][26]mailto:[6][15][27]detomaso at poca.com
> >A A 2. [16][28]mailto:[7][17][29]DeTomaso at poca.com
> >A A 3.
[8][18][30]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
>
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Detomaso Forum Managed by POCA
> >
> > DeTomaso mailing list
> > [9][19][31]DeTomaso at poca.com
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>References
>
> 1. [33]mailto:[21][34]MikeLDrew at aol.com
> 2. [35]mailto:[22][36]boyd411 at gmail.com
> 3. [37]mailto:[23][38]detomaso at poca.com
> 4. [39]mailto:[24][40]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 5.
[25][41]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 6. [42]mailto:[26][43]detomaso at poca.com
> 7. [44]mailto:[27][45]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 8.
[28][46]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
> 9. [47]mailto:[29][48]DeTomaso at poca.com
> 10.
[30][49]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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>DeTomaso mailing list
>[31][50]DeTomaso at poca.com
>[32][51]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
References
1. mailto:[52]boyd411 at gmail.com
2. mailto:[53]will.kooiman at gmail.com
3. mailto:[54]MikeLDrew at aol.com
4. mailto:[55]detomaso at poca.com
5. mailto:[56]detomaso at poca.com
6. mailto:[57]fresnofinches at aol.com
7. mailto:[58]will.kooiman at gmail.com
8. mailto:[59]boyd411 at gmail.com
9. mailto:[60]MikeLDrew at aol.com
10. mailto:[61]boyd411 at gmail.com
11. mailto:[62]detomaso at poca.com
12. mailto:[63]DeTomaso at poca.com
13. [64]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
14. [65]mailto:[6]
15. mailto:[66]detomaso at poca.com
16. [67]mailto:[7]
17. mailto:[68]DeTomaso at poca.com
18. [69]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
19. mailto:[70]DeTomaso at poca.com
20. [71]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
21. mailto:[72]MikeLDrew at aol.com
22. mailto:[73]boyd411 at gmail.com
23. mailto:[74]detomaso at poca.com
24. mailto:[75]DeTomaso at poca.com
25. [76]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
26. mailto:[77]detomaso at poca.com
27. mailto:[78]DeTomaso at poca.com
28. [79]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
29. mailto:[80]DeTomaso at poca.com
30. [81]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
31. mailto:[82]DeTomaso at poca.com
32. [83]http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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References
1. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
2. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
3. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
4. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
5. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
6. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
7. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
8. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
9. http://www/
10. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
11. mailto:michael at michaelshortt.com
12. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
13. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
14. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
15. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
16. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
17. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
18. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
19. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
20. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
21. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
22. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
23. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
24. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
25. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
26. mailto:[6][15]
27. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
28. mailto:[7][17]
29. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
30. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
31. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
32. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
33. mailto:[21]
34. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
35. mailto:[22]
36. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
37. mailto:[23]
38. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
39. mailto:[24]
40. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
41. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
42. mailto:[26]
43. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
44. mailto:[27]
45. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
46. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
47. mailto:[29]
48. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
49. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
50. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
51. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
52. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
53. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
54. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
55. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
56. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
57. mailto:fresnofinches at aol.com
58. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
59. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
60. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
61. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
62. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
63. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
64. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
65. mailto:[6]
66. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
67. mailto:[7]
68. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
69. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
70. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
71. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
72. mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com
73. mailto:boyd411 at gmail.com
74. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
75. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
76. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
77. mailto:detomaso at poca.com
78. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
79. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
80. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
81. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
82. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
83. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
84. mailto:DeTomaso at poca.com
85. http://poca.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_poca.com
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