[DeTomaso] New engine

[Robert Stroj]

Hi Mike,

 

thanks for the really helpful reply full of information!

 

OK, understand your points on the airflow in the intake area, so will for
now just settle with the regular air-cleaner without air box and ducts; any
suggestions on setup that works well; was looking into those "flow-control"
drop-down housings?

I got a tall single plane intake plus 1inch carburetor spacer and there is
no screen on the car as I bought it, so there is no problem with space
there, but am worried of interface with the deck-lid in case the filter is
dropped down a lot.

 

Thanks for your suggestion on Pat Michal headers; I spoke to him today and
he has a set that would also bolt directly on my Yates heads, so this will
be best way to go.

For stock look and good performance Pat suggested using actual Ansa
mufflers/pipes, but gutting them inside and replacing the front tube with
3inch one that would mate to his headers.

How could I tell if my Ansa mufflers are the ones with larger tips and no
resonator?

 

In order to help financing this whole project I am looking into selling
extra components that I got:

 

-Euro GTS Ansa headers (or possibly complete system including mufflers),
ceramic coated

-CHI 3V heads with SS valves installed, Ti retainers and roller-rockers;
head is polished

-CHI hi-rise intake, polished

-Dog-bone air cleaner, polished

-Mallory Unilite ignition system, all components including Distributor and
sparkplug wires

 

In addition, I might be selling:

 

-Cleveland 351 4V short-block, needs rebuilt

It has stock cast crank and connecting roads, I think 10:1 compression;
crank would need to be re-ground

-10Quart oil pan with windage tray

-aluminum high flow water pump

 

Please if someone could help me with advice on reasonable prices I could ask
for those parts; they are all located in Munich, Germany.

 

Thanks a lot, Robert

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: MikeLDrew at aol.com [mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 7:36 AM
To: npdrs at maui.net; detomaso at poca.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New engine

 


In a message dated 12/3/14 18 17 10, npdrs at maui.net writes:





I guess there actually should be a good supply of cold
air created by the turbulence of the roof back edge; any opinions?


>>>You're unlikely to see any benefit from any sort of airbox that is just
open to the rear.  That's a low-pressure zone; air flows from under the car,
up and past the motor (where it's heated) and then exits through the mesh
grille and the opening in the decklid.

If you are committed to a fresh air induction system, your only real choice
is to duct air from below the car (which Ford actually did as stock, with
the 1973-74 cars, which used a duct and flexible hose mounted behind the
passenger seat drawing air up from the ground, and feeding it to the snorkel
on the air cleaner), or from the sides.  Vendors sell 'elephant ears' which
replace the rear quarter windows.  There are (basically) two styles--the
ugly kind, and the kind that don't work.  The ones that look good don't
stick out far enough into the airflow to do anything.  The ones that really
work, look a bit goofy, but they really DO work!

As for the air cleaner, Spectre likely has something that would work for
you:

http://www.spectreperformance.com/cat/air-boxes-14-low-profile?cat=C00000012

Note that the 14-inch diameter means that it might foul your decklid, unless
your intake was so tall that the bottom of the air cleaner was above the top
of the decklid.  I do know one guy who is running one of these and he made
an air-cleaner-shaped notch in his decklid to clear it.




>Other dilemma is the exhaust; currently I got a European GTS system; I
could
cut my flanges and welt flanges to fit Yates C3 heads. From looking trough
Dan Jones tests it is clear that I should replace mufflers as Ansa once I
got are too restrictive.


>>>Agreed.  It's quite possible that the restriction isn't in the mufflers
themselves, but rather the four tips.  The inside diameter of the resonator
tips is relatively tiny.  FWIW current-production Pantera ANSA GTS mufflers
have tips that are slightly larger and have no resonator, and thus
(presumably) they flow much better.  That would be a bolt-on solution which
would still knock some of the noise off, and you could sell your existing
ones to help fund the purchase (they are expensive!)





>What would be the best option to replace Ansa mufflers; I would like to
keep
the stock look of four pipes angled up; this is the early, '71 car?
Is there something already made available that would bolt onto my GTS
headers or would I be best buying Magnaflow mufflers and replacing my Ansa
mufflers?


>>>I have never seen a generic muffler setup that looked any good.  Most
mufflers are too long, and they wind up looking really goofy on a Pantera,
especially one that doesn't have a large L-model rear bumper to help hide
them.  Rich Boschert had ANSA-sized Flowmaster mufflers, but they were
brutally loud--they almost seemed like amplifiers rather than mufflers!  And
they looked terrible too.




>Other option, should I replace everything with 180 degree system; how much
power is it really worth?


>>>What you get is style and a different sound.  You'll never notice a
performance difference, and you will pick up weight plus enormous complexity
and hamper maintenance access.




>Car will be combination of street and track, so it would be nice to keep
cargo compartment in the back....


>>>In that case I'd forget the 180 idea.

Pat Mical has fabricated custom exhaust systems using 3-inch oval tubing,
which gets around the Pantera packaging constraints and allows for better
flow.  But you're still stuck trying to find a halfway decent muffler to
use....

Mike



-------------- next part --------------
   Hi Mike,


   thanks for the really helpful reply full of information!


   OK, understand your points on the airflow in the intake area, so will
   for now just settle with the regular air-cleaner without air box and
   ducts; any suggestions on setup that works well; was looking into those
   "flow-control" drop-down housings?

   I got a tall single plane intake plus 1inch carburetor spacer and there
   is no screen on the car as I bought it, so there is no problem with
   space there, but am worried of interface with the deck-lid in case the
   filter is dropped down a lot.


   Thanks for your suggestion on Pat Michal headers; I spoke to him today
   and he has a set that would also bolt directly on my Yates heads, so
   this will be best way to go.

   For stock look and good performance Pat suggested using actual Ansa
   mufflers/pipes, but gutting them inside and replacing the front tube
   with 3inch one that would mate to his headers.

   How could I tell if my Ansa mufflers are the ones with larger tips and
   no resonator?


   In order to help financing this whole project I am looking into selling
   extra components that I got:


   -Euro GTS Ansa headers (or possibly complete system including
   mufflers), ceramic coated

   -CHI 3V heads with SS valves installed, Ti retainers and
   roller-rockers; head is polished

   -CHI hi-rise intake, polished

   -Dog-bone air cleaner, polished

   -Mallory Unilite ignition system, all components including Distributor
   and sparkplug wires


   In addition, I might be selling:


   -Cleveland 351 4V short-block, needs rebuilt

   It has stock cast crank and connecting roads, I think 10:1 compression;
   crank would need to be re-ground

   -10Quart oil pan with windage tray

   -aluminum high flow water pump


   Please if someone could help me with advice on reasonable prices I
   could ask for those parts; they are all located in Munich, Germany.


   Thanks a lot, Robert










   From: MikeLDrew at aol.com [mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com]
   Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 7:36 AM
   To: npdrs at maui.net; detomaso at poca.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] New engine


   In a message dated 12/3/14 18 17 10, [1]npdrs at maui.net writes:

   I guess there actually should be a good supply of cold
   air created by the turbulence of the roof back edge; any opinions?

   >>>You're unlikely to see any benefit from any sort of airbox that is
   just open to the rear.  That's a low-pressure zone; air flows from
   under the car, up and past the motor (where it's heated) and then exits
   through the mesh grille and the opening in the decklid.
   If you are committed to a fresh air induction system, your only real
   choice is to duct air from below the car (which Ford actually did as
   stock, with the 1973-74 cars, which used a duct and flexible hose
   mounted behind the passenger seat drawing air up from the ground, and
   feeding it to the snorkel on the air cleaner), or from the sides.
   Vendors sell 'elephant ears' which replace the rear quarter windows.
   There are (basically) two styles--the ugly kind, and the kind that
   don't work.  The ones that look good don't stick out far enough into
   the airflow to do anything.  The ones that really work, look a bit
   goofy, but they really DO work!
   As for the air cleaner, Spectre likely has something that would work
   for you:
   [2]http://www.spectreperformance.com/cat/air-boxes-14-low-profile?cat=C
   00000012
   Note that the 14-inch diameter means that it might foul your decklid,
   unless your intake was so tall that the bottom of the air cleaner was
   above the top of the decklid.  I do know one guy who is running one of
   these and he made an air-cleaner-shaped notch in his decklid to clear
   it.

   >Other dilemma is the exhaust; currently I got a European GTS system; I
   could
   cut my flanges and welt flanges to fit Yates C3 heads. From looking
   trough
   Dan Jones tests it is clear that I should replace mufflers as Ansa once
   I
   got are too restrictive.

   >>>Agreed.  It's quite possible that the restriction isn't in the
   mufflers themselves, but rather the four tips.  The inside diameter of
   the resonator tips is relatively tiny.  FWIW current-production Pantera
   ANSA GTS mufflers have tips that are slightly larger and have no
   resonator, and thus (presumably) they flow much better.  That would be
   a bolt-on solution which would still knock some of the noise off, and
   you could sell your existing ones to help fund the purchase (they are
   expensive!)

   >What would be the best option to replace Ansa mufflers; I would like
   to keep
   the stock look of four pipes angled up; this is the early, '71 car?
   Is there something already made available that would bolt onto my GTS
   headers or would I be best buying Magnaflow mufflers and replacing my
   Ansa
   mufflers?

   >>>I have never seen a generic muffler setup that looked any good.
   Most mufflers are too long, and they wind up looking really goofy on a
   Pantera, especially one that doesn't have a large L-model rear bumper
   to help hide them.  Rich Boschert had ANSA-sized Flowmaster mufflers,
   but they were brutally loud--they almost seemed like amplifiers rather
   than mufflers!  And they looked terrible too.

   >Other option, should I replace everything with 180 degree system; how
   much
   power is it really worth?

   >>>What you get is style and a different sound.  You'll never notice a
   performance difference, and you will pick up weight plus enormous
   complexity and hamper maintenance access.

   >Car will be combination of street and track, so it would be nice to
   keep
   cargo compartment in the back....

   >>>In that case I'd forget the 180 idea.
   Pat Mical has fabricated custom exhaust systems using 3-inch oval
   tubing, which gets around the Pantera packaging constraints and allows
   for better flow.  But you're still stuck trying to find a halfway
   decent muffler to use....
   Mike

References

   1. mailto:npdrs at maui.net
   2. http://www.spectreperformance.com/cat/air-boxes-14-low-profile?cat=C00000012