[DeTomaso] Ethanol "enriched" (diluted) fuel

Sat Jan 12 22:50:46 EST 2013

Good site, but it doesn't explain how the sensor works.  It just says it
is in the fuel line, and there is a microprocessor.

BTW, I don't know what I was thinking, but I had it backward.  E85 is 85%
ethanol, not 85% gasoline.  (or roughly 85% - per the article, it varies
quite a bit).  It makes sense that E85 gets much worse gas mileage if it
is 85% ethanol.

On 1/12/13 9:32 PM, "Sean Korb" <spkorb at gmail.com> wrote:

>This is a great article!
>
>http://www.megamanual.com/flexfuel.htm
>
>sean
>
>On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 8:56 PM, Will Kooiman <will.kooiman at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>> Well said.  Choice is part of what makes the free market system work.
>>And
>> that means choice on a level playing ground too, where one choice is not
>> heavily subsidized over another.
>>
>> I had a friend tell me recently that the fuel economy is much worse when
>> he burns E85 in his flex fuel vehicle (Ford, but I forgot the model).
>>His
>> explanation was that the computer recognized the higher alcohol content,
>> so it over adjusted.  I'm not saying his analysis is right or wrong.
>>I'm
>> just repeating what he said.  It at least sounds reasonable.
>>
>> Does anyone know how flex fuel vehicles "know" the alcohol content?  I'm
>> assuming there is a sensor in the tank, but how would it work?  Specific
>> gravity?  I guess I could google it.
>>
>> On 1/12/13 6:19 PM, "Sean Korb" <spkorb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I work for a major international agriculture seed and chemical
>>>supplier concern.  Ethanol production has a very significant impact on
>>>our bottom line and we provide a number of attractive products making
>>>a lot of progress to get the BTU tradeoff near unity.  Invest in us
>>>since our stock price only seems to rise so our shareholders are
>>>pretty happy with this.  The future in this space is pretty bright
>>>indeed and the technology is quite exciting.
>>>
>>>But it's getting very very hard for me to fine 100% gasoline in my
>>>area and almost all my cars and lawn implements are negatively
>>>impacted by this (my rubber hoses and O rings have turned to goo).
>>>What I would *really* like is choice and then we could make educated
>>>purchases in fuel markets.
>>>
>>>sean
>>>
>>>On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Jerry Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>> Being a farmer I appreciate everything the government does in the farm
>>>> subsidy area.    Being a driver not so much so.
>>>>
>>>> My grocery getter gets 8 percent less mileage on Ethanol blended 10
>>>> percent.  Everything else I have is using diesel, gasoline, or
>>>>Propane.
>>>> 131,000 Btu are needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol. One gallon of
>>>> ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 Btu.  Every time you make 1
>>>> gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 Btu.
>>>>
>>>> Government subsidies lower the price artificially.  Government
>>>>subsidies
>>>> represent about  $4.18 per gallon.  The 131,00 BTUs used are from oil
>>>> and it uses about 1/50th  of an acre of corn (on a good year) to
>>>>produce
>>>> a gallon of Ethanol.  Corn is hard on the ground and require a high
>>>> input of fertilizer.    Nitrogen fertilizers, herbicides and
>>>>pesticides
>>>> are all made from fossil fuels, as is the diesel fuel, gasoline, LPG,
>>>> natural gas, electricity, transportation and irrigation used to grow
>>>>and
>>>> transport the corn.  Water input is also high but it is either
>>>>provided
>>>> naturally or not, in my case I can't afford irrigation.
>>>>
>>>> If I was still actively farming I would stop growing grass for cattle
>>>> and start growing corn for cars.
>>>>
>>>> To late smarter,
>>>> jerry knotts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1/10/2013 11:28 AM, Dick Koch wrote:
>>>>> Roland, even with the diverse opinions on the affects of Ethanol on
>>>>> pre-ethanol diluted fuel vehicles and equipment, I know we all can
>>>>>agree
>>>>> that the price of Frito's has increased with the increased use of
>>>>>corn
>>>>> based ethanol.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dick Koch - Atlanta
>>>>> On 1/10/2013 11:37 AM, Roland Jaeckel wrote:
>>>>>> We have 10 percent Ethanol over here without any issues in any car.
>>>>>> I think the swedes have up to 85 percent.
>>>>>> Roland Jaeckel
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Koch"
>>>>>><arkoch at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> To: <detomaso at poca.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 5:13 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Ethanol "enriched" (diluted) fuel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While the use of Ethanol diluted fuel has been discussed before,
>>>>>>>folks
>>>>>>> may be interested in viewing this video on the use of the Ethanol
>>>>>>> "enriched" fuel being pushed by the EPA.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  From my standpoint, I would not use any Ethanol enriched fuel, not
>>>>>>>only
>>>>>>> in my Pantera, but any car or other equipment, such as generators
>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>> lawn equipment.  A couple of web sites I use to identify Ethanol
>>>>>>>free
>>>>>>> fuel are:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://pure-gas.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.htapps.ethanolfree
>>>>>>>ga
>>>>>>>s&hl=en
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dick Koch
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>--
>>>Sean Korb spkorb at spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
>>>'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera
>>>#1382
>>>"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
>>>"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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>
>
>
>-- 
>Sean Korb spkorb at spkorb.org http://www.spkorb.org
>'65,'68 Mustangs,'68 Cougar,'78 R100/7,'60 Metro,'59 A35,'71 Pantera #1382
>"The more you drive, the less intelligent you get" --Miller
>"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers." -P. Picasso
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