[DeTomaso] Cleveland starters - Looking for thoughts on the subject (long)

[boyd casey]

Jerry,
I have a DB starter in my Pantera ( I don't remember the model # but I did
specify that it was for a 351 Cleveland .
I had the original starter for 6 months before installing it. When I did
install it I didn't follow the wiring instructions that came with it from
DB but instead used wiring  that was on the car. ( I was having hot start
problems). When I put the DB starter in the car it started but would not
start when hot (as usual) I called DB and they sent me a new starter so
fast that I had not even pulled the first DB starter out of my car! This
time I followed their instructions and the starter has worked flawlessly
ever since  ( 2 years ago) It cranks with more power hot then my old
starter did cold! I returned the first DB starter to them ( which in fact
had nothing wrong with it. I can't say enough about how pleased I am with
both the DB starter and the people at the company , they are both great!

Boyd

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 1:22 PM, SG <sdlgibson at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Jerry,
>              I don't know about the other issues you are having, but I
> have the 0012 DB starter on my Pantera and it works great.  My engine is a
> 383 stroker with higher compression and a lot of initial timing, and it
> spins the engine over very well.  I'm happy with it so far.
>
>              Shaun Gibson
>
> --- On Mon, 6/18/12, Jerry R Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Jerry R Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com>
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Cleveland starters - Looking for thoughts on the
> subject (long)
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Monday, June 18, 2012, 9:31 AM
>
>
> A few years ago something came up on the list about using DB Electric
> starters for the Pantera.  They are Chinese made and are supposed to be the
> same as the rebranded high torque starters that are sold for significantly
> more money.  I purchased one for future use.  It is a SFD0012 which was the
> recommendation from the list for the Pantera.
> Two weeks ago I called DB for a starter for the 351C with a C6 that I have
> in my Cobra.  They recommended the SFD0001 as the one to use.  I ordered
> and
> installed the recommended starter.
>
> The following is from and ongoing exchange I have had with DB Electrical:
>
> --------------------------------
> Sent by me to DB.
>
> Contacted your tech people to get a 351 Cleveland starter.  Your people
> recommended a SFD0001 which I ordered.  I installed it and it fit
> differently that the starter that was on the motor.  It installed further
> around the arch of the flywheel and the depth of the tooth engagement was
> less that the standard Ford starter.  The Ford starter has a separate
> solenoid and is a larger unit.  After trials of about 10 starts I found the
> starter gear failed to engage once seeming to bounce off of the flywheel
> The Cleveland has a 168 tooth flywheel.  I went to get gas and after
> filling
> the tank I attempted to start the car.  The starter turned the motor over
> once and seemed to hang.  The battery an Exide Orbital began to smoke and
> the starter would not disengage or turn the motor over. After towing it to
> my mechanic it had an extremely large amp draw.  I have replaced the
> battery
> and the old starter and it now starts again.
>
> This process has brought up a few questions.
>
> Is the SFD0001 the correct starter for the Cleveland 351 engine or is it
> for
> a Windsor 351?  If the SFD0001 is correct why does it have problems
> engaging
> the flywheel?
>
> If the SFD0001 is for a Cleveland I have also purchased a starter SFD0012
> as
> a back up for my 351 Cleveland engine Pantera.  Is this the correct starter
> for the DeTomaso Pantera?
>
> I realize that the two cars have different belhousings but the basic
> engagement should be the same for the same flywheels.
>
> Your shipping document says:
> "We have shipped your Premium Webstores Item # 13612089. NEW Ford Mini PMGR
> Racing Starter 302 351 Higher Torque "
> ------------------------------------------
>
> Reply from DB Electrical
>
> The SFD0001 starter will work on all 302 and 351 motors as long as you have
> an automatic or 5 speed manual transmission. The SFD0012 will work on all
> 302 and 351 motors that have 3 speed or 4 speed manual transmissions.
>
> Thanks, DB
> ------------------------
>
>
> Their reply leads me to believe that they think there is not a difference
> between the Cleveland and Windsor starters.
>
> They certainly look different in snout design and engagement position.
>
> Any thoughts about either starter and if they will work in applications of
> both Windsor and Cleveland blocks?
>
> Wishing I had paid more attention earlier in life.  (To many things)
> jerry
>
>
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