[DeTomaso] Cleveland starters - Looking for thoughts on the subject (long)

[Jerry R Knotts]

That is good to know.  That means the one I have in stock will perform If I need it.

Thanks,
jerry
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: SG 
  To: detomaso at realbig.com ; Jerry R Knotts 
  Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 12:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Cleveland starters - Looking for thoughts on the subject (long)


        Jerry,
                     I don't know about the other issues you are having, but I have the 0012 DB starter on my Pantera and it works great.  My engine is a 383 stroker with higher compression and a lot of initial timing, and it spins the engine over very well.  I'm happy with it so far.  

                     Shaun Gibson

        --- On Mon, 6/18/12, Jerry R Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com> wrote:


          From: Jerry R Knotts <knottsj at galstar.com>
          Subject: [DeTomaso] Cleveland starters - Looking for thoughts on the subject (long)
          To: detomaso at realbig.com
          Date: Monday, June 18, 2012, 9:31 AM


          A few years ago something came up on the list about using DB Electric 
          starters for the Pantera.  They are Chinese made and are supposed to be the 
          same as the rebranded high torque starters that are sold for significantly 
          more money.  I purchased one for future use.  It is a SFD0012 which was the 
          recommendation from the list for the Pantera.
          Two weeks ago I called DB for a starter for the 351C with a C6 that I have 
          in my Cobra.  They recommended the SFD0001 as the one to use.  I ordered and 
          installed the recommended starter.

          The following is from and ongoing exchange I have had with DB Electrical:

          --------------------------------
          Sent by me to DB.

          Contacted your tech people to get a 351 Cleveland starter.  Your people
          recommended a SFD0001 which I ordered.  I installed it and it fit
          differently that the starter that was on the motor.  It installed further
          around the arch of the flywheel and the depth of the tooth engagement was
          less that the standard Ford starter.  The Ford starter has a separate
          solenoid and is a larger unit.  After trials of about 10 starts I found the
          starter gear failed to engage once seeming to bounce off of the flywheel
          The Cleveland has a 168 tooth flywheel.  I went to get gas and after filling
          the tank I attempted to start the car.  The starter turned the motor over
          once and seemed to hang.  The battery an Exide Orbital began to smoke and
          the starter would not disengage or turn the motor over. After towing it to
          my mechanic it had an extremely large amp draw.  I have replaced the battery
          and the old starter and it now starts again.

          This process has brought up a few questions.

          Is the SFD0001 the correct starter for the Cleveland 351 engine or is it for
          a Windsor 351?  If the SFD0001 is correct why does it have problems engaging
          the flywheel?

          If the SFD0001 is for a Cleveland I have also purchased a starter SFD0012 as
          a back up for my 351 Cleveland engine Pantera.  Is this the correct starter
          for the DeTomaso Pantera?

          I realize that the two cars have different belhousings but the basic
          engagement should be the same for the same flywheels.

          Your shipping document says:
          "We have shipped your Premium Webstores Item # 13612089. NEW Ford Mini PMGR
          Racing Starter 302 351 Higher Torque "
          ------------------------------------------

          Reply from DB Electrical

          The SFD0001 starter will work on all 302 and 351 motors as long as you have
          an automatic or 5 speed manual transmission. The SFD0012 will work on all
          302 and 351 motors that have 3 speed or 4 speed manual transmissions.

          Thanks, DB
          ------------------------


          Their reply leads me to believe that they think there is not a difference 
          between the Cleveland and Windsor starters.

          They certainly look different in snout design and engagement position.

          Any thoughts about either starter and if they will work in applications of 
          both Windsor and Cleveland blocks?

          Wishing I had paid more attention earlier in life.  (To many things)
          jerry


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