[DeTomaso] radiator fluid- coolant that drops temperature
Mike
bluebugman2 at sbcglobal.net
Wed Jan 25 23:46:48 EST 2012
No I mean tap - its not distilled
thanks Mike V
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________________________________
From: Pantdino <pantdino at aol.com>
To: julian_kift at hotmail.com; bluebugman2 at sbcglobal.net;
michael at michaelshortt.com
Cc: detomaso at realbig.com
Sent: Wed, January 25, 2012 8:40:46 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] radiator fluid- coolant that drops temperature
By "water" I assume you mean distilled or deionized water, not tap. :-)
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
To: bluebugman2 <bluebugman2 at sbcglobal.net>; michael <michael at michaelshortt.com>
Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 8:21 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] radiator fluid- coolant that drops temperature
Mike, Do you know roughly what water-glycol concentration you are running
currently? If not you don't have to drain the whole system, for less than $10
you can get a hydrometer which will tell you the strength and then you can
calculate how much water replacement is required to get where you need to be
and just drain that amount and fill back with water. Julian Date: Wed,
25 Jan 2012 16:33:55 -0800 From: bluebugman2 at sbcglobal.net Subject: Re:
[DeTomaso] radiator fluid- coolant that drops temperature To:
michael at michaelshortt.com; julian_kift at hotmail.com CC: detomaso at realbig.com
Mike Ok thats sounds fine with me and shall try it- Im just tired of pulling off
the hatch draining the system and putting it back. I do have a fluidyne
laydown type radiator, mirah (2 ea -14" sp fans), and a custom shroud
thanks Mike V Need an Home Inspection with Thermal Imaging/Infrared
Technology/Mold Testing We also do Termite Inspections (+ repairs) & Pest
Control Buying a foreclosure property ? CALL US 1st "LET US SEE
WHATS LURKING IN YOUR WALLS" 805-522-1054
http://commercial-homeinfraredinspections.com/ From:
"michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com> To: Julian Kift
<julian_kift at hotmail.com> Cc: bluebugman2 at sbcglobal.net; De Tomaso List
<detomaso at realbig.com> Sent: Wed, January 25, 2012 3:38:27 PM Subject: Re:
[DeTomaso] radiator fluid- coolant that drops temperature "Water alone is a
better coolant than a water -glycol mix" Are we really going to do all of
this again? OK, here is more info, I stand by my mix, if it's good enough
for airplanes, it's good enough for me. I watch my car go from 210 to 170
with no other changes other than having the radiator cleaned and changing the
mix. It runs so cool now that I have put race tape on the grill on trips to
keep it near 180. Michael Coolant Mix and Overheating
The problem: Sometimes a water-cooled engine such as the Rotax 582 seems to run
hotter than it should, for no apparent reason. An identical engine installed
the same way in another plane may be fine, but one runs hot, and the other
doesn't. This problem can cause no small amount of hand-wringing and head
scratching, but as mysterious as it may seem, it may be quite simple to fix.
Now, more precisely, the situation we're talking about is this: the coolant
temperatures may run up to the 180 - 190 F range as opposed to the more
reasonable 165 - 175 F. Our radiator may be no smaller than someone else's that
works just fine, and the thermostat is not stuck or obstructed. It just runs
hot. The problem might be that the coolant mix is too rich. That is, too much
"antifreeze" and not enough water. And to no one's surprise, what you do to fix
it is take out some of the antifreeze and replace it with water. Reducing the
mix ratio can easily lower the temperature by 15 F. Why a rich mix gives less
cooling: First of all, in this article, we refer to the stuff you buy simply as
“antifreeze.” It comes under many different trade names, and for automotive
applications, is usually ethylene glycol. We'll just call it “antifreeze.” Now
if you've ever poured the stuff into a radiator, you no doubt observed that it
is much “syrup-i-er” than water. That is, it has a much higher viscosity. This
means that it will not flow as fast through the system as water, and the
cooling effect will be less. Further, the specific heat of antifreeze is less
than that of water. This means that for a given temperature change, the
antifreeze will carry less heat each time it circulates from engine to
radiator and back. So, if the mix is too rich, the cooling efficiency will be
reduced because (1) the flow rate is less, and (2) less heat is transferred
per cycle of the coolant. The manufacturer's recommendation: The standard
recommendation is to use a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water. This represents
a compromise between cooling efficiency and the ability to prevent the mix
from freezing during cold weather. After all, the initial purpose of
antifreeze is to prevent freezing. But a 50/50 mix does not give the best
cooling. For improved cooling in hot weather, we should use less antifreeze
and more water, perhaps going to a 25/75 or a 20/80 mix ratio. Everyone knows
antifreeze prevents corrosion, and corrosion is bad. True enough. But, even a
10/90 ratio of antifreeze to water will serve the puproses of inhibiting
corrosion, at least according to one source of information. More is better!
Not in this case. When you're adding the coolant to an engine, especially to an
aircraft engine, you want to do it as good as it can be done. Cut no corners!
Don't use just a little if a lot will do. After all, the stuff coming out of the
jug looks high-tech and scientific, and it's expensive, so it must be good.
Therefore, use a lot! Yes, the stuff is good, high-tech, and all that, but it's
physical properties are not as good as plain, pure water when viewed from the
point of cooling. Therefore, you must resist the temptation to put in more
just because more seems like it should be better. Results: Temperature
drops ranging from 10 - 15 F are typically obtained by decreasing the mix from
50/50 down to 25/75 or perhaps 20/80. It is not possible to give precise
numbers here because of uncertainty in knowing exactly what the initial mix
was, and so forth. In one instance, the original mix in a newly-purchased plane
appeared to be pure antifreeze. When the mix was changed to 25/75, the
temperatures dropped by 20 F! Here's the email that reported the results:
Hi Doc, Well it worked perfectly and I got a 20 degree reduction in water
temp by decreasing the mix to 25/75. By the looks of the stuff that came out,
I really think that it was full strength antifreeze. Unfortunately it will
not be running any time soon. I had an engine failure due to a poor gas tank
vent design and didn't see a two strand barbwire fence on the landing. I
caught the left landing gear on a post and ripped it off. Needless to say, the
rest is self evident. But then that is another story.Thanks Again, Al
Adjusting the mix, starting from scratch: Determining the amounts of antifreeze
and water is not particularly difficult if you're filling a completely empty
cooling system. The following amounts are calculated for a system whose total
volume is 8 units, whether pints, liters, quarts, or whatever. (The total
volume of a Rotax 582 system is about 8 pints in typical installations.) Mix
Ratio Antifreeze Water 50/50 4
4 40/60 3.2 4.8 33/66
2.6 5.4 25/75 2.0 6.0
20/80 1.6 6.4 10/90 0.8
7.2 If your system capacity is more than 8 units, say 10 for example, just
multiply each number in the table above by 10/8 = 1.25. If your system
capacity is less than 8 units, say 6 for example, just multiply each number in
the table above by 6/8 = 0.75. Reducing the mix, starting with a 50/50 mix
ratio: If the system is already filled with coolant, what you must do is drain
part of the mix and replace it with pure water. Based on a system whose total
volume is 8 units, here are the amounts to drain in order to lower the mix
ratio from 50/50: New Mix Ratio Drain and Replace 40/60
1.6 33/66 2.75 25/75
4.0 20/80 4.8 10/90
6.4 If your system capacity is more or less than 8 units, you can adjust
these numbers the same way as described above. Reducing the Mix, general
case: This involves draining a fraction of the coolant and replacing it with
pure water as before. The amount to be drained out can be calculated if we
know the mix ratio of the coolant presently in the system and the total system
volume. The calculation is illustrated in the following. First, express the
mix ratio as a percentage, like this: Mix Ratio Percentage 50/50
50 40/60 40 25/75 25 ....
and so forth. We have two different mix ratios to deal with. One is the mix
ratio of the coolant in the system now. We'll call this the OLD mix ratio.
The other is the mix ratio we're trying to get. We'll call it NEW. The formula
for finding how much to drain and replace with water is Drain = TotVol x ( 1 --
NEW / OLD ) where Drain is the amount to be drained out, and TotVol is the
total volume of the cooling system. Example: Suppose we have a system
whose total volume is 10 pints and the mix ratio of the coolant in it now is
60/40. That is, it has more antifreeze in it than water. We want to reduce the
mix to 20/80. How much of the coolantshould we drain and replace with water?
Mix ratios, in percent: OLD = 60 NEW = 20 TotVol = 10 pints
Drain = TotVol x ( 1 -- NEW / OLD ) = ( 10 pints ) x ( 1 -- 20 / 60 ) = (
10 pints ) x ( 1 -- 0.333 ) = ( 10 pints ) x 0.667 = 6.67 pints Therefore, if
we drain 6.67 pints of the original coolant and replace it with pure water,
the new mix ratio will be 20/80. And that's it. An obvious final comment: If
you live in an area where the temperatures fall below freezing, you will need
to increase the mix back to a higher value before winter sets in. Which is to
say, you will need the antifreeze to prevent the system from freezing up. But in
cooler weather, it is unlikely that overheating will be a problem. It would be a
shame to forget to change the mix. Credits: Thanks to my instructor and
flying buddy, Mr. Ted Clement, for sharing this information. He's a gentleman,
a scholar, and he doesn't fly all that bad either. On Wed, Jan 25, 2012
at 6:10 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote: rDo you have
overheating issues? Maybe there is something in the cooling system that
requires addressing first? Bear in mind the engine temperature is dictated by
the thermostat opening temperature, so if all is well you won't see any
decrease in temperature with any of these aids, although cooling efficiency may
be improved. The product may have been No-Rosion? www.no-rosion.com It's a
corrosion inhibitor, so does that part of the job that glycol does, but offers
no freeze protection. Water alone is a better heat conducter than a
water-glycol mix so will aid in cooling. Julian > Date: Wed, 25 Jan
2012 15:00:54 -0800 > From: bluebugman2 at sbcglobal.net > To:
detomaso at realbig.com > Subject: [DeTomaso] radiator fluid- coolant that drops
temperature > > Hi guys there was an article a while back that somebody was
using something > like water-wetter but better as they stated in 1 small bottle
( think it was a > quart) it dropped the radiator/engine temperature by 15% +,
I was wondering if > anybody new what the name was or the Company > > thanks
in advance Mike #7042 > > thanks Mike V > > > Need an Home Inspection with
Thermal Imaging/Infrared Technology/Mold Testing > > We also do Termite
Inspections (+ repairs) & Pest Control > > Buying a foreclosure property ? >
> CALL US 1st > > "LET US SEE WHATS LURKING IN YOUR WALLS" > >
805-522-1054 > > > http://commercial-homeinfraredinspections.com/ >
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