[DeTomaso] radiator fluid- coolant that drops temperature
Pantdino
pantdino at aol.com
Wed Jan 25 23:40:46 EST 2012
By "water" I assume you mean distilled or deionized water, not tap. :-)
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
To: bluebugman2 <bluebugman2 at sbcglobal.net>; michael <michael at michaelshortt.com>
Cc: De Tomaso List <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 8:21 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] radiator fluid- coolant that drops temperature
ike,
Do you know roughly what water-glycol concentration you are running currently?
f not you don't have to drain the whole system, for less than $10 you can get a
ydrometer which will tell you the strength and then you can calculate how much
ater replacement is required to get where you need to be and just drain that
mount and fill back with water.
Julian
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 16:33:55 -0800
rom: bluebugman2 at sbcglobal.net
ubject: Re: [DeTomaso] radiator fluid- coolant that drops temperature
o: michael at michaelshortt.com; julian_kift at hotmail.com
C: detomaso at realbig.com
ike Ok thats sounds fine with me and shall try it- Im just tired of pulling off
he hatch draining the system and putting it back.
I do have a fluidyne laydown type radiator, mirah (2 ea -14" sp fans), and a
ustom shroud
hanks Mike V
eed an Home Inspection with Thermal Imaging/Infrared Technology/Mold Testing
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rom: "michael at michaelshortt.com" <michaelsavga at gmail.com>
o: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
c: bluebugman2 at sbcglobal.net; De Tomaso List <detomaso at realbig.com>
ent: Wed, January 25, 2012 3:38:27 PM
ubject: Re: [DeTomaso] radiator fluid- coolant that drops temperature
"Water alone is a better coolant than a water -glycol mix"
re we really going to do all of this again?
K, here is more info, I stand by my mix, if it's good enough for airplanes,
t's good enough for me.
watch my car go from 210 to 170 with no other changes other than having the
adiator cleaned and changing the mix.
t runs so cool now that I have put race tape on the grill on trips to keep it
ear 180.
ichael
oolant Mix and Overheating
The problem:
ometimes a water-cooled engine such as the Rotax 582 seems to run hotter than
t should, for no apparent reason. An identical engine installed the same way in
nother plane may be fine, but one runs hot, and the other doesn't. This problem
an cause no small amount of hand-wringing and head scratching, but as
ysterious as it may seem, it may be quite simple to fix.
ow, more precisely, the situation we're talking about is this: the coolant
emperatures may run up to the 180 - 190 F range as opposed to the more
easonable 165 - 175 F. Our radiator may be no smaller than someone else's that
orks just fine, and the thermostat is not stuck or obstructed. It just runs
ot.
he problem might be that the coolant mix is too rich. That is, too much
antifreeze" and not enough water. And to no one's surprise, what you do to fix
t is take out some of the antifreeze and replace it with water. Reducing the
ix ratio can easily lower the temperature by 15 F.
Why a rich mix gives less cooling:
irst of all, in this article, we refer to the stuff you buy simply as
antifreeze.” It comes under many different trade names, and for automotive
pplications, is usually ethylene glycol. We'll just call it “antifreeze.”
ow if you've ever poured the stuff into a radiator, you no doubt observed that
t is much “syrup-i-er” than water. That is, it has a much higher viscosity.
his means that it will not flow as fast through the system as water, and the
ooling effect will be less.
urther, the specific heat of antifreeze is less than that of water. This means
hat for a given temperature change, the antifreeze will carry less heat each
ime it circulates from engine to radiator and back.
o, if the mix is too rich, the cooling efficiency will be reduced because (1)
he flow rate is less, and (2) less heat is transferred per cycle of the
oolant.
The manufacturer's recommendation:
he standard recommendation is to use a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water. This
epresents a compromise between cooling efficiency and the ability to prevent
he mix from freezing during cold weather. After all, the initial purpose of
ntifreeze is to prevent freezing.
ut a 50/50 mix does not give the best cooling. For improved cooling in hot
eather, we should use less antifreeze and more water, perhaps going to a 25/75
r a 20/80 mix ratio.
veryone knows antifreeze prevents corrosion, and corrosion is bad. True enough.
ut, even a 10/90 ratio of antifreeze to water will serve the puproses of
nhibiting corrosion, at least according to one source of information.
More is better!
ot in this case. When you're adding the coolant to an engine, especially to an
ircraft engine, you want to do it as good as it can be done. Cut no corners!
on't use just a little if a lot will do. After all, the stuff coming out of the
ug looks high-tech and scientific, and it's expensive, so it must be good.
herefore, use a lot!
es, the stuff is good, high-tech, and all that, but it's physical properties
re not as good as plain, pure water when viewed from the point of cooling.
herefore, you must resist the temptation to put in more just because more seems
ike it should be better.
Results:
emperature drops ranging from 10 - 15 F are typically obtained by decreasing
he mix from 50/50 down to 25/75 or perhaps 20/80. It is not possible to give
recise numbers here because of uncertainty in knowing exactly what the initial
ix was, and so forth.
n one instance, the original mix in a newly-purchased plane appeared to be pure
ntifreeze. When the mix was changed to 25/75, the temperatures dropped by 20 F!
ere's the email that reported the results:
Hi Doc,
Well it worked perfectly and I got a 20 degree reduction in water temp by
ecreasing the mix to 25/75. By the looks of the stuff that came out, I really
hink that it was full strength antifreeze.
nfortunately it will not be running any time soon. I had an engine failure due
o a poor gas tank vent design and didn't see a two strand barbwire fence on the
anding. I caught the left landing gear on a post and ripped it off. Needless to
ay, the rest is self evident. But then that is another story.Thanks Again,
l
djusting the mix, starting from scratch:
etermining the amounts of antifreeze and water is not particularly difficult if
ou're filling a completely empty cooling system. The following amounts are
alculated for a system whose total volume is 8 units, whether pints, liters,
uarts, or whatever. (The total volume of a Rotax 582 system is about 8 pints in
ypical installations.)
ix Ratio Antifreeze Water
50/50 4 4
40/60 3.2 4.8
33/66 2.6 5.4
25/75 2.0 6.0
20/80 1.6 6.4
10/90 0.8 7.2
If your system capacity is more than 8 units, say 10 for example, just multiply
ach number in the table above by 10/8 = 1.25.
f your system capacity is less than 8 units, say 6 for example, just multiply
ach number in the table above by 6/8 = 0.75.
Reducing the mix, starting with a 50/50 mix ratio:
f the system is already filled with coolant, what you must do is drain part of
he mix and replace it with pure water. Based on a system whose total volume is
units, here are the amounts to drain in order to lower the mix ratio from
0/50:
ew Mix Ratio Drain and Replace
40/60 1.6
33/66 2.75
25/75 4.0
20/80 4.8
10/90 6.4
If your system capacity is more or less than 8 units, you can adjust these
umbers the same way as described above.
Reducing the Mix, general case:
his involves draining a fraction of the coolant and replacing it with pure
ater as before. The amount to be drained out can be calculated if we know the
ix ratio of the coolant presently in the system and the total system volume.
he calculation is illustrated in the following.
irst, express the mix ratio as a percentage, like this:
ix Ratio Percentage
50/50 50
40/60 40
25/75 25 .... and so forth.
We have two different mix ratios to deal with. One is the mix ratio of the
oolant in the system now. We'll call this the OLD mix ratio.
he other is the mix ratio we're trying to get. We'll call it NEW.
he formula for finding how much to drain and replace with water is
rain = TotVol x ( 1 -- NEW / OLD )
here Drain is the amount to be drained out, and TotVol is the total volume of
he cooling system.
Example:
uppose we have a system whose total volume is 10 pints and the mix ratio of the
oolant in it now is 60/40.
hat is, it has more antifreeze in it than water. We want to reduce the mix to
0/80. How much of the coolantshould we drain and replace with water?
ix ratios, in percent: OLD = 60 NEW = 20
otVol = 10 pints
rain = TotVol x ( 1 -- NEW / OLD )
= ( 10 pints ) x ( 1 -- 20 / 60 )
( 10 pints ) x ( 1 -- 0.333 ) = ( 10 pints ) x 0.667
6.67 pints
herefore, if we drain 6.67 pints of the original coolant and replace it with
ure water, the new mix ratio will be 20/80. And that's it.
n obvious final comment:
f you live in an area where the temperatures fall below freezing, you will need
o increase the mix back to a higher value before winter sets in. Which is to
ay, you will need the antifreeze to prevent the system from freezing up. But in
ooler weather, it is unlikely that overheating will be a problem. It would be a
hame to forget to change the mix.
Credits: Thanks to my instructor and flying buddy, Mr. Ted Clement, for sharing
his information. He's a gentleman, a scholar, and he doesn't fly all that bad
ither.
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 6:10 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
Do you have overheating issues? Maybe there is something in the cooling system
hat requires addressing first? Bear in mind the engine temperature is dictated
y the thermostat opening temperature, so if all is well you won't see any
ecrease in temperature with any of these aids, although cooling efficiency may
e improved.
The product may have been No-Rosion? www.no-rosion.com It's a corrosion
nhibitor, so does that part of the job that glycol does, but offers no freeze
rotection. Water alone is a better heat conducter than a water-glycol mix so
ill aid in cooling.
Julian
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 15:00:54 -0800
From: bluebugman2 at sbcglobal.net
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: [DeTomaso] radiator fluid- coolant that drops temperature
Hi guys there was an article a while back that somebody was using something
like water-wetter but better as they stated in 1 small bottle ( think it was a
quart) it dropped the radiator/engine temperature by 15% +, I was wondering if
anybody new what the name was or the Company
thanks in advance Mike #7042
thanks Mike V
Need an Home Inspection with Thermal Imaging/Infrared Technology/Mold Testing
We also do Termite Inspections (+ repairs) & Pest Control
Buying a foreclosure property ?
CALL US 1st
"LET US
SEE WHATS LURKING IN YOUR WALLS"
805-522-1054
http://commercial-homeinfraredinspections.com/
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