[DeTomaso] Sorta NPC, goodbye internal combustion engines

[Ken Green]

OK, I'll ask, what does it mean to be a net exporter of "petroleum products"?  All I hear is that we use twice the oil we produce.  When you say "Petroleum products" do you include anything that includes oil, for example, plastics?  Just seems like a bad way to look at the issue.  I read we import almost 10 million barrels a day, so that's about a billion $s a day.  We also are subject to international blackmail because our country would really take a big hit if we had to stop importing oil tomorrow.
 
I searched to black oil and toxic and didn't find anything, can you provide a link?  
 
Back in the 90s the environmentalists convinced Clinton and Congress etc. that we had to stop cutting trees to save the spotted owl.  Jobs were lost, families broken, companies went out of business, towns disappeared.  Guess what, now they think the problem was not logging, it was the barrel owl that killed spotted owls.  The environmentalists never apologized for all the lives they destroyed.  I guess that one example makes me think that environmentalist can not be trusted.  They view humans as the problem and don't particuarly care whom they hurt.  
 
Working 24 years in aerospace I saw a lot of college professors looking for grants.  They were good at sharing the results that supported their requests, but terrible and making real contributions.  I have a feeling that a lot of the global warming etc. comes from ivory tower types looking for million $ grants to pay for their research.  It's like James Carville flying around the world in his private jet and telling us to quit driving our cars to stop global warming.  Something about that just isn't right.
 
Ken


________________________________
From: boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
To: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com> 
Cc: kenn_green at yahoo.com; De Tomaso List <detomaso at realbig.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sorta NPC, goodbye internal combustion engines


Dear Pantera brothers, 
I don't want to be branded as "A Panty wearing Liberal" just because I may share a view different from someone else's. In my humble opinion any one who prefaces or ends a statement supporting their opinion by insulting the manhood of another is suffering from self esteem issues or is perhaps worried about there own level of "Machismo". My understanding is not that Obama is against the new oil pipeline , but doesn't want to make a decision until all the environmental questions have been answered. We are not talking about a "normal" oil pipeline here. This is a pipeline to transport "Black Sand oil" which is one of the most (if not the most" toxic oil products known to man. There have already been some environmentally disastrous spills in Minnesota, and Nebraska wanted the pipeline re-routed out of their state. So I believe there are valid questions and concerns that need to be looked at before we move forward. By the way how many of you know that the US
 was a netEXPORTER of petroleum products in 2011. So we are selling more oil products then we are importing. If things were really that desperate how would that be possible?  If you doubt this fact let me know and I will post the evidence and statistics I have.I don't really like discussing political hot potatoes on this forum but I believe this one is very important. If we are going to engage in a discussion of this subject I propose we keep it intelligent, base it on facts, not opinions and leave the name calling scrawled on the wall next to your crib.
Hugh Boyd Casey


On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:


>Yeah, but it's not just the internal combustion engine..... I like to refer people to an old commercial by Occidental Peroleum entitled "Hydrocarbon Man" which highlights our dependence on hydrocarbon derived products. One can argue either way; I agree we need alternatives, but they need to be viable on both cost & environmental fronts.
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D0kWskiRdQ
>
>So who is prepared to "do the right thing" and sell their Pantera to buy a Prius? I have potential buyers lined up that I have been helping look for good Pantera's :>), I might even buy another myself. My theory is the more cars in my garage the more I'm doing for the economy and the environment. For the economy I pay registration on all the cars, however I can only drive one at a time so I'm actively reducing the carbon footprint in comparison to if those cars were owned by 9 individuals al driving at the same time :>)
>
>Julian ("Earth first......we'll mine other planets later")
>
>
>> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 13:11:28 -0800
>> From: kenn_green at yahoo.com
>> To: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Subject: [DeTomaso] Sorta NPC, goodbye internal combustion engines
>
>>
>> I assume everyone has seen that Obama killed the oil pipeline from Canada because environmentalists are worried that the method of production (in Canada) may be bad for the environment (Canada will just sell the oil to China).  This would also apply to recovering natural gas and oil in the US using similar methods.  Basically, a policy that will eventually end the use of the internal combustion engine in America when gas is priced out of reach and our economy crashes even worse because of energy costs.
>>
>> I agree that politics should be avoided in the discussion group, but if the direction of the country is not corrected soon, all we will be able to do is tell our grandchildren what it was like to be able to hop in a car and go where you want to.
>>
>> Anyone watch "Atlas Shrugged"?  It frighteningly foresaw this.
>>
>> Ken
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