[DeTomaso] Sorta NPC, goodbye internal combustion engines

Wed Jan 18 21:23:00 EST 2012

Ken, as far as the Toxicity of Black tar oil or Black San oil see the
following links;

http://www.sierraclub.org/crp/downloads/SierraClub-Beyond%20Oil-Tarsands.pdf

Sand Tar oil toxicity<http://cahr.uvic.ca/nearbc/documents/2009/Alberta-Tar-Sands-Industry-Pollute.pdf>

I think you searched for "Black Oil" which covers any crude oil

According to the info I found here;
 http://conversableeconomist.blogspot.com/2011/12/us-is-already-net-exporter-of-oil.html<http://US
already net exporter of oil fuels>
We (the US are importing 2.2 million barrels of oil a day and exporting 3.1
million barrels a day *of Oil Fuels (Gasoline ,Diesel and oil based Fuels
(not including plastics) This number apparently also doesn't include
liquefied natural gas but as the technology improves that number will
increase too!*
*
*
*Boyd*

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 8:00 PM, Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:

> OK, I'll ask, what does it mean to be a net exporter of "petroleum
> products"?  All I hear is that we use twice the oil we produce.  When you
> say "Petroleum products" do you include anything that includes oil, for
> example, plastics?  Just seems like a bad way to look at the issue.  I read
> we import almost 10 million barrels a day, so that's about a billion $s a
> day.  We also are subject to international blackmail because our country
> would really take a big hit if we had to stop importing oil tomorrow.
>
> I searched to black oil and toxic and didn't find anything, can you
> provide a link?
>
> Back in the 90s the environmentalists convinced Clinton and Congress
> etc. that we had to stop cutting trees to save the spotted owl.  Jobs were
> lost, families broken, companies went out of business, towns
> disappeared.  Guess what, now they think the problem was not logging, it
> was the barrel owl that killed spotted owls.  The environmentalists never
> apologized for all the lives they destroyed.  I guess that one example
> makes me think that environmentalist can not be trusted.  They view humans
> as the problem and don't particuarly care whom they hurt.
>
> Working 24 years in aerospace I saw a lot of college professors looking
> for grants.  They were good at sharing the results that supported their
> requests, but terrible and making real contributions.  I have a feeling
> that a lot of the global warming etc. comes from ivory tower types looking
> for million $ grants to pay for their research.  It's like James Carville
> flying around the world in his private jet and telling us to quit driving
> our cars to stop global warming.  Something about that just isn't right.
>
> Ken
>
>   *From:* boyd casey <boyd411 at gmail.com>
> *To:* Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> *Cc:* kenn_green at yahoo.com; De Tomaso List <detomaso at realbig.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 18, 2012 4:10 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [DeTomaso] Sorta NPC, goodbye internal combustion engines
>
> Dear Pantera brothers,
> I don't want to be branded as "A Panty wearing Liberal" just because I may
> share a view different from someone else's. In my humble opinion any one
> who prefaces or ends a statement supporting their opinion by insulting the
> manhood of another is suffering from self esteem issues or is perhaps
> worried about there own level of "Machismo". My understanding is not that
> Obama is against the new oil pipeline , but doesn't want to make a decision
> until all the environmental questions have been answered. We are not
> talking about a "normal" oil pipeline here. This is a pipeline to transport
> "Black Sand oil" which is one of the most (if not the most" toxic oil
> products known to man. There have already been some environmentally
> disastrous spills in Minnesota, and Nebraska wanted the pipeline re-routed
> out of their state. So I believe there are valid questions and concerns
> that need to be looked at before we move forward. By the way how many of
> you know that the US was a net* EXPORTER* of petroleum products in 2011.
> So we are selling more oil products then we are importing. If things were
> really that desperate how would that be possible?  If you doubt this fact
> let me know and I will post the evidence and statistics I have.I don't
> really like discussing political hot potatoes on this forum but I believe
> this one is very important. If we are going to engage in a discussion of
> this subject I propose we keep it intelligent, base it on facts, not
> opinions and leave the name calling scrawled on the wall next to your crib.
> Hugh Boyd Casey
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>
> Yeah, but it's not just the internal combustion engine..... I like to
> refer people to an old commercial by Occidental Peroleum entitled
> "Hydrocarbon Man" which highlights our dependence on hydrocarbon derived
> products. One can argue either way; I agree we need alternatives, but they
> need to be viable on both cost & environmental fronts.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D0kWskiRdQ
>
> So who is prepared to "do the right thing" and sell their Pantera to buy a
> Prius? I have potential buyers lined up that I have been helping look for
> good Pantera's :>), I might even buy another myself. My theory is the more
> cars in my garage the more I'm doing for the economy and the environment.
> For the economy I pay registration on all the cars, however I can only
> drive one at a time so I'm actively reducing the carbon footprint in
> comparison to if those cars were owned by 9 individuals al driving at the
> same time :>)
>
> Julian ("Earth first......we'll mine other planets later")
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 13:11:28 -0800
> > From: kenn_green at yahoo.com
> > To: detomaso at realbig.com
> > Subject: [DeTomaso] Sorta NPC, goodbye internal combustion engines
>  >
> > I assume everyone has seen that Obama killed the oil pipeline from
> Canada because environmentalists are worried that the method of production
> (in Canada) may be bad for the environment (Canada will just sell the oil
> to China).  This would also apply to recovering natural gas and oil in the
> US using similar methods.  Basically, a policy that will eventually end the
> use of the internal combustion engine in America when gas is priced out of
> reach and our economy crashes even worse because of energy costs.
> >
> > I agree that politics should be avoided in the discussion group, but if
> the direction of the country is not corrected soon, all we will be able to
> do is tell our grandchildren what it was like to be able to hop in a car
> and go where you want to.
> >
> > Anyone watch "Atlas Shrugged"?  It frighteningly foresaw this.
> >
> > Ken
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