[DeTomaso] Sorta NPC, goodbye internal combustion engines

Wed Jan 18 21:23:16 EST 2012

Dear Lyn,
I didn't say Tar Oil was among the most toxic substances known to man ( How
about Plutonium, Dioxin, Ricin to name a few ) I said  (and this is a
copied and pasted quote)""Black Sand oil" which is one of the most (if not
the most" toxic oil
> products known to man." This may have been a slight overstatement, but
according to the Sierra Club "*Tar sands oil* is the most *toxic* fossil
fuel on the planet".See the following link.
http://www.sierraclub.org/crp/downloads/SierraClub-Beyond%20Oil-Tarsands.pdf
I know the Sierra Club is a suspect source for this kind of fact but I have
not had a chance to research it thoroughly.

Thanks for sharing your views in such a calm manner.

Boyd

On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 8:15 PM, <cars at wt-inc.com> wrote:

> Holy cow....
>
> First,
>
> Michael....take it down a notch will you????
>
> Michael I am far from a liberal.  I own guns, lots of cars, vote republican
> (if they are the better person) and like to eat the meet that my neighbors
> shot and am definitely NOT a fan of our current president.  I must say that
> your name calling and vitriolic attitude have firmly disqualified you from
> someone I think could participate in a reasonable discussion on this, or
> any, political topic.  I had a professor that used to say "if you can't
> think of a good argument against your point of view, that alone is a good
> argument against your point of view"
>
> I love discussion that might teach me something new and expand my
> perspective.  I'm not sure that I can rely on you for that.
>
> Second,
> Boyd,
> Thanks for a reasoned and calm response.  A couple of items I respectfully
> disagree with.
>
> 1.  This pipeline has been in the environmental study stage for 3 years.
>  It
> is purely political to delay it further based on the need for "further
> study" and that is from the Federal view.  The states have been studying
> this as well in a parallel approach.  If it was 10 years in environmental
> study he would have delayed it since he needs, and is counting on, the
> political support from the environmentalists.  That is just being honest.
> Even the most jaded politico would agree with that.  I just watched the
> Democratic governor from Montana admit that and we was struggling to
> support
> President Obama's decision since he is in support of the pipeline.
>
> 2.  Yes this is thick tar sands but far from "one of the most toxic
> substance known to man".  It is very thick and originates from the tar
> sands
> in Canada.  It is perfectly suitable for pipeline transportation and is one
> of the easiest things to clean up in the event of a rupture.  The viscosity
> alone ensures that.  Ask a petroleum expert.  While I don't have
> documentation to support this, I work and live with experts on pipelines
> and
> oil transportation (and I slept at a Holiday Inn ;>)  )
>
> 3.  Yes we are a net exporter of petroleum products but that is based on
> the
> type of oil related to the type of refining abilities we have.  Our oil is
> better suited to be made into some products while the Mid east oil is
> better
> suited to be refined into gas.  That statistic, while accurate, can be a
> little misleading especially when you factor in natural gas.  This is a
> fact
> that becomes convenient depending on what side of the argument you are on.
> I have heard both repubs and dems spout this same argument.  I will try to
> find the article I read on this.  If I can locate it I will forward it to
> you.
>
> Thanks for your time and thanks for sharing your thoughts.
>
> Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
>
> Lynn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
> On
> Behalf Of michael at michaelshortt.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 4:19 PM
> To: boyd casey
> Cc: kenn_green at yahoo.com; De Tomaso List
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Sorta NPC, goodbye internal combustion engines
>
> If you're going to drag my self esteem and crib into it while insulting me
> with your peace and love message., then two words for you Boyd.
>
> Typical "passive - aggressive" liberal panty wearing behavior.
> On Jan 18, 2012 7:11 PM, "boyd casey" <boyd411 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Pantera brothers,
> > I don't want to be branded as "A Panty wearing Liberal" just because I
> may
> > share a view different from someone else's. In my humble opinion any one
> > who prefaces or ends a statement supporting their opinion by insulting
> the
> > manhood of another is suffering from self esteem issues or is perhaps
> > worried about there own level of "Machismo". My understanding is not that
> > Obama is against the new oil pipeline , but doesn't want to make a
> decision
> > until all the environmental questions have been answered. We are not
> > talking about a "normal" oil pipeline here. This is a pipeline to
> transport
> > "Black Sand oil" which is one of the most (if not the most" toxic oil
> > products known to man. There have already been some environmentally
> > disastrous spills in Minnesota, and Nebraska wanted the pipeline
> re-routed
> > out of their state. So I believe there are valid questions and concerns
> > that need to be looked at before we move forward. By the way how many of
> > you know that the US was a net* EXPORTER* of petroleum products in 2011.
> So
> > we are selling more oil products then we are importing. If things were
> > really that desperate how would that be possible?  If you doubt this fact
> > let me know and I will post the evidence and statistics I have.I don't
> > really like discussing political hot potatoes on this forum but I believe
> > this one is very important. If we are going to engage in a discussion of
> > this subject I propose we keep it intelligent, base it on facts, not
> > opinions and leave the name calling scrawled on the wall next to your
> crib.
> > Hugh Boyd Casey
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 6:42 PM, Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Yeah, but it's not just the internal combustion engine..... I like to
> > > refer people to an old commercial by Occidental Peroleum entitled
> > > "Hydrocarbon Man" which highlights our dependence on hydrocarbon
> derived
> > > products. One can argue either way; I agree we need alternatives, but
> > they
> > > need to be viable on both cost & environmental fronts.
> > >
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D0kWskiRdQ
> > >
> > > So who is prepared to "do the right thing" and sell their Pantera to
> buy
> > a
> > > Prius? I have potential buyers lined up that I have been helping look
> for
> > > good Pantera's :>), I might even buy another myself. My theory is the
> > more
> > > cars in my garage the more I'm doing for the economy and the
> environment.
> > > For the economy I pay registration on all the cars, however I can only
> > > drive one at a time so I'm actively reducing the carbon footprint in
> > > comparison to if those cars were owned by 9 individuals al driving at
> the
> > > same time :>)
> > >
> > > Julian ("Earth first......we'll mine other planets later")
> > >
> > >
> > > > Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2012 13:11:28 -0800
> > > > From: kenn_green at yahoo.com
> > > > To: detomaso at realbig.com
> > > > Subject: [DeTomaso] Sorta NPC, goodbye internal combustion engines
> > > >
> > > > I assume everyone has seen that Obama killed the oil pipeline from
> > > Canada because environmentalists are worried that the method of
> > production
> > > (in Canada) may be bad for the environment (Canada will just sell the
> oil
> > > to China).  This would also apply to recovering natural gas and oil in
> > the
> > > US using similar methods.  Basically, a policy that will eventually end
> > the
> > > use of the internal combustion engine in America when gas is priced out
> > of
> > > reach and our economy crashes even worse because of energy costs.
> > > >
> > > > I agree that politics should be avoided in the discussion group, but
> if
> > > the direction of the country is not corrected soon, all we will be able
> > to
> > > do is tell our grandchildren what it was like to be able to hop in a
> car
> > > and go where you want to.
> > > >
> > > > Anyone watch "Atlas Shrugged"?  It frighteningly foresaw this.
> > > >
> > > > Ken
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