[DeTomaso] Under car water pipes

Tue Jun 23 19:26:36 EDT 2009

The hole in the frame isn't really necessary, in my opinion. I don't  
plan on implementing that part.
I think John was trying to 'straighten out' the flow paths. I'll let  
him elaborate here on this point.

What's really important is to get the filling point on the low  
pressure side. I would ALWAYS puke fluid after backing off from  
7,000rpm even with a 24lb cap on my Pantera. It did it for years. All  
because the fill tank/whatever you want to call it today is on the  
high pressure side of the coolant system.
That's one of the dumbest things about the Pantera cooling system.

Look at any other modern car today.

In addition, what I found on my GT40 was that I don't get the large  
movements in temperature. i.e., when traveling down the road, I would  
see the water temp drop as the thermostat opened. Then, as the engine  
would heat back up, the temperature would rise and the cycle would  
start over. Circulating through the tubes to the remote thermostat in  
the front reduces that to the point I can't see it anymore. Which  
means to me the system is damped better and more consistent.

As for the parts required, I used a mid 90's Mustang remote thermostat  
housing. Wasn't hard to get at all. Ford had it in stock.

And, if you just happen to have EFI, you can run the fans off of the  
block sensor as opposed to the radiator.
That makes a difference as well since the fans turn on when the engine  
gets warm enough; not later. It's been in the high 90's here and I've  
not had a problem.

Once again.... the most important part is getting the fill point on  
the low pressure side plus the remote thermostat.

Engineer the crap out of how it is bad or not right or whatever. I can  
attest to the fact that it works.
And, as I said, I'll modify the system the same way once I get my  
Pantera back. I told Quella I'd do that myself.

It IS silver and black again! Woohoo!

Later,
Kirby

On 23 Jun 2009, at 5:39 PM, asajay at asajay.com wrote:

> I for one have read through John's article and though thorough, it's a
> bit of work to implement.  There are quite a few other parts to
> procure, pipes to modify, a hole in the frame that needs to be
> created, etc.  There is way too much there for me to bite off in one
> chuck.
>
> The comment that it is logical from an engineering point of view
> interests me of course.  So my question is, what exactly about the
> change contributes to the more effective cooling?
>
> Where can corners be cut to make improvements?
> If I don't install an oil cooler that cuts down a little.
> What about doing away with the heater altogether?  (not that I'm going
> to do that).
>
> I'm just thinking what are the simple mods I can do to help improve
> the situation.
>
> Asa Jay
>
> Quoting Kirby Schrader <kirby.schrader at gmail.com>:
>
>> I've been intrigued by this thread. The subject of the Pantera  
>> cooling
>> system comes up time and again and it's kind of like the old dead  
>> horse
>> story...
>> Why are more people not implementing the system John Taphorn used  
>> on his
>> car? John was advised on how to do this by Mike Trusty (who has  
>> applied it
>> on Panteras, Countachs, Renaults, etc.) and the modification/design  
>> works.
>>
>> Very successful, fairly easy to implement, no larger pipes  
>> required, etc.
>> etc.
>>
>> I have done something very similar on my GT40 and it made a big  
>> difference.
>> It's even logical and makes sense from an engineering point of  
>> view. It's
>> the first thing I'm going to do to my Pantera when I get it back. I  
>> used a
>> different thermostat housing, but the result was the same.
>>
>> The article John wrote can be found here.
>>
>> http://www.spacecitypanteras.com/technical.html
>>
>> Click on the 'new approach' link and the diagram to get all the  
>> info you
>> need.
>> The article was also published in one of the POCA magazines, but I  
>> forget
>> which one...
>>
>> I hope this helps some.
>>
>> FWIW,
>> Kirby
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:17 PM, <JDeRyke at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> History lesson: back in April 1980, a few weeks before we  
>>> purchased our '72
>>> L, Armand Gosselin of Orlando FL converted his '72 Pantera from  
>>> 1-3/8" OD
>>> cooling tubes to 2". He did the ENTIRE system, not just the long  
>>> under-car
>>> tubes! With the help of a local MIdas Muffler shop, Armand had  
>>> them bend
>>> replicas of all the water tubes in the car, also changing the  
>>> radiator
>>> inlet and
>>> outlet spigots and the spigots on both water tanks to 2". He had  
>>> some
>>> trouble opening up the underbody grommet holes and support block  
>>> for the
>>> much
>>> larger tubes- there's not much metal left when you do this! He  
>>> also had
>>> trouble
>>> getting the larger diameter 2" tube to wrap around the gearshift rod
>>> without
>>> rattling and rubbing. But he finally prevailed- see PI Tech Info  
>>> Group 27,
>>> Article 10.
>>>
>>> The Pantera responded by running pretty much as it had before.  
>>> Some time
>>> before the work was started, there was a long discussion as to the  
>>> possible
>>> benefits, and one contributor said that it should make little  
>>> difference
>>> because as the ID of the tubes increases, the speed of water flow  
>>> decreases
>>> with
>>> the same pump & pulley, thus maintaining about the same flow  
>>> volume. I
>>> can't
>>> find the discussion in P.I, but it turned out he was correct. And  
>>> besides
>>> the water tubes, there are two other places in the cooling system  
>>> where
>>> flow
>>> is restricted: the stock radiator and the thermostat (possibly by  
>>> design).
>>> If those are not enlarged, all you've done with bigger water pipes  
>>> is
>>> slightly increase the cooling system volume.
>>>
>>> An aluminum radiator with its 3X larger internal water tubes DOES  
>>> increase
>>> the flow rate of water thru it, but the thermostat then remains as  
>>> the
>>> primary impediment to higher water flow through our cooling  
>>> systems. I'm
>>> working
>>> on that.... FWIW- J Deryke, defacto Historian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> **************
>>> Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the
>>> grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004)
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