[DeTomaso] 12 cylinder Pantera

Charles McCall charlesmccall at gmail.com
Tue Jun 16 06:29:54 EDT 2009 

Jan - you are mostly right. There are easier things to do than to fit a v-12
in a Pantera. There are cheaper, faster, and simpler solutions to getting
power. 

The only real justification for doing it is for the challenge. "Why climb
Mt. Everest? Because it's there". 

"Why install a V-12? Why not?" 

That's one of the great things about our hobby - people do a lot of things
that aren't entirely logical, and I think it's wonderful! 

The DeTomasos that are trouble free and reliable are those that follow the
KISS principle, as you state. But there are also people who like to
experiment. The DeTomaso is a great lab for doing so, I think!

(nice work you do, by the way...) 

Charles McCall
1985 DeTomaso Pantera GT5-S #9375
"Raising Pantera Awareness Across Europe"
http://www.poca.com/index.php/gallery/?g2_itemId=2323

-----Mensaje original-----
De: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] En
nombre de Jan Krakevik
Enviado el: martes, 16 de junio de 2009 12:06
Para: Torbjørn Harlem; Thomas Tornblom
CC: detomaso at realbig.com
Asunto: Re: [DeTomaso] 12 cylinder Pantera

it dont make sense to change engine..the old V8 with some mods is plenty 
fast enough.
i have a sunbeam tiger here with a mod 289, and its a screamer:)
All modification take 10 times longer time to do than you will think.

i think i saw in one of the profile magazines a statement from Bjørn Carlson

: K.I.S.S  and it means keep it simple stupid.:))
dont make changes just in the sake of makeing changes, there is a lot of 
other things to spend time and money :)
Best regards,

Jan Einar Krakevik
Director
JAN CAR FACTORY, UAB
Sirokomles g. 38, Nemezis, LT-13262, Vilniaus raj., Lithuania
tel: +370 685 50623
+474 106 3733
e-mail: jan at jancarfactory.com
www.jancarfactory.com
http://picasaweb.google.com/Jancarfactory
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Torbjørn Harlem" <torbjorn.harlem at elverhoy.no>
To: "Thomas Tornblom" <Thomas.Tornblom at hax.se>
Cc: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] 12 cylinder Pantera


>I haven't looked at that engine.
> Very interesting thou
>
> I also would like a V12 engine, and I gave it up when I start measuring 
> the engine bay.
> Perhaps I better look at that engine from Bentley.
>
> It can be done, but with a lot of work. And I would like to get the car on

> the street within reasonable time.
>
> My car is totally dismantled, and I'll soon start the rust welding 
> process. Some pics here :  http://picasaweb.google.com/harlempantera
>
>
> And my 351 C is rebuilt so I stick with it.
>
> Espen Graffer comes visit me in this weekend .With his nice blue 85 
> Deauville.
> We have a nice De Tomaso talk over a cup of coffee. And a visit in my 
> workshop so he could see my project.
>
> His red early PB Pantera ( door handles switch) have its engine out, so he

> has some work to do as well.
>
>
> Best reg.
> Torbjorn
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Opprinnelig melding-----
> Fra: Thomas Tornblom [mailto:Thomas.Tornblom at hax.se]
> Sendt: 16. juni 2009 10:31
> Til: Torbjørn Harlem
> Kopi: boyd casey; detomaso at realbig.com
> Emne: Re: [DeTomaso] 12 cylinder Pantera
>
> Torbjørn Harlem skrev:
>> Hi.
>>
>>
>> I'll think you have to move the rear wheel backwards, because a 12 
>> cylinder engine is much longer than a V8.
>>
>> The angel of the drive shaft most be so straight ( 90 degree at the 
>> transaxle)as possible because otherwise the axl`s will be rapidly worn 
>> out.
>>
>> An other option is to use some other transaxle that is "shorter" like 
>> some of the Audi cars have.
>>
>> The third option must be the Lambo way.
>> Engine mounted across the engine bay.
>> Very few gearboxes to choose from. (That can stand against torque and 
>> amount of HP from the engine.)  And a big rebuilt session to.
>
> A fourth option is to look into the VW/Audi/Bentley W12 engines. This
> engine is actually shorter than a Cleveland, 57cm IIRC. Looking at the
> oilpan it appears very wide though, so I'm not sure it could be dropped
> in between the rails. It is a dry-sump motor, so perhaps this can be 
> fixed.
>
> I have been very interested in a W12 swap, but it will not be a trivial
> operation.
>
> Cheers,
> Thomas
>
>>
>>
>> If you want a modern V8 you have to look at BMW, Audi, Merc, Porsche, and

>> the newest Ford have to offer ( Chevy ( Good forbid) is no option in my 
>> eyes)
>>
>> An if you search it's possible to find even more engines with specs that 
>> will " play at 500 +++ hp"
>>
>>   Just some thoughts
>>
>> Torbjorn # 2215
>>
>> (Sorry for my spelling)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Opprinnelig melding-----
>> Fra: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] 
>> På vegne av boyd casey
>> Sendt: 16. juni 2009 09:01
>> Til: detomaso at realbig.com
>> Emne: [DeTomaso] 12 cylinder Pantera
>>
>> Knowing that some day I will have to rebuild or replace my 351 Cleveland 
>> I
>> am always thinking about interesting alternatives to push rod  based
>> engines. . I am not aware of  many  high horsepower engines with  DOHC 
>> and 4
>> valves per cylinder alternatives available to the Pantera. ( aside from 
>> the
>> Ford modular engines)  I don't think that I would ever actually attempt
>> starting  with a Mercedes Benz  (they are incredibly expensive to
>> obtain,  maintain
>> and is also  extremely complex .. I don't know if it could be squeezed in
>> but does anyone know of anyone ever attempting to install one of the 6 
>> liter
>> 12 cylinder Mercedes engines from the 600 sl ( that turn out around 620 
>> hp )
>> into a Pantera?
>>
>> Boyd
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>
>
> -- 
> Real life:   Thomas Törnblom             Email:  Thomas.Tornblom at Hax.SE
> Snail mail:  Banvallsvägen 14            Phone:    +46 18 444 33 21
>              S - 754 40 Uppsala, Sweden  Cellular: +46 70 261 1372
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