[DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
Will Kooiman
wkooiman at earthlink.net
Sun Dec 27 19:26:53 EST 2009
My current theory is I spun a rod bearing a week ago. It didn't sound like
a spun bearing, though. A spun bearing makes a tick-tick-tick sound. This
was a knocking sound, and only at certain rpm's.
When I spun it up to 7,000 rpm's, it broke the rod in half. The rest of the
damage can be explained by half a rod going up-and-down the cylinder.
I checked the MSD. It had the 7000 chip - not the 7500.
I hope to pull the engine this coming weekend. I cleared out a spot in my
garage this evening.
Once I get the engine on a stand, I'll tip it over, pull the pan, and see
what else is wrong.
By the way, it won't help to look in the spark plug holes. The passenger's
head is off the engine.
-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Bill Lewis
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 5:47 PM
To: PANTERA - WillKolman; teampantera at yahoo.com; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
Will, there has to be some way in this modern, hyper-tech world of America,
for J DeRyke to send a signal up to a satellite, then beam back down to you,
and you stick some type of camera-doohickey in your spark plug holes, and
then he can look and see what your internal problems are. Larry (from
Cleveland), you can jump in here and medically explain this. ---Bill
> From: wkooiman at earthlink.net
> To: teampantera at yahoo.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:25:17 -0600
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
>
> 1. Russ Phelps is too far away.
> 2. I can see the pics on the camera, but I can't upload them. I've
> tried the USB cable on the camera. I've also tried putting the SAN Disk
> card in the reader on our HP printer. Neither one will allow me to upload
> the files. I've considered buying a special card reader from the computer
> store, but it hasn't been high enough priority yet.
> 3. I have a spare 4-bolt block - 2 actually, if you count my original
> block that needs a sleeve.
>
>
>
> Update:
>
>
>
> I removed the intake. There were small bits of metal in the valley, plus
> milky white/brown oil. Yes, I know. That means there's water in the oil.
> They don't call me Mr. Valdez for nothing.
>
>
>
> I looked into the ports, but couldn't see anything out of the ordinary.
The
> #8 port was sucking a little bit of air - small black streak into the
port.
> At least that tells me why #8 wasn't sucking enough through the Weber
> throat.
>
>
>
> I removed the headers. All of the exhaust ports were dry except for #4.
> Aha - it's #4.
>
>
>
> I removed the passenger's head. #4 has a split cylinder, plus the piston
is
> cocked sideways in the bore - not quite 90deg - more like 45deg.
>
>
>
> I can take a pic if someone can host it.
>
>
>
> One more thing - all of the outer head bolts were loose. Most were around
> 65 lb/ft. The inner bolts were closer to 95 lb/ft. That's on both sides
-
> not just the side the grenaded. Note to self: Retorque head bolts
SEVERAL
> times - not just once.
>
>
>
> Known:
>
>
>
> a) I overheated the engine slightly just before it starting sounding
> weird. Slightly means about 220deg at the front of the block (manual
> Autometer gauge).
>
> b) It made a weird sound, but it didn't run weird, nor was there
water
> in the oil - I changed the oil just a couple of days ago. It was ok.
>
> c) I hit the rev limiter a couple of times. The MSD has the 7500
chip
> (I think - I'm about to go verify)
>
> d) The block is 0.030. The crank is 3.7 offset ground 351C.
>
> e) The head gasket does not look blown. I'm about to take a closer
> look.
>
> f) I think that's it.
>
>
>
> So, what happened?
>
> a) Did the cylinder split?
>
> b) Did I over-rev the engine?
>
>
>
> Good news is the heads are fine. The only damage is a closed spark plug
> gap. The bad news is the piston and block are toast. I don't know about
> the rod or crank.
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Mad Dog Antenucci [mailto:teampantera at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:13 PM
> To: Will Kooiman; detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
>
>
>
> Pleeeze....You play and you work hard.....flying R/C planes and cars is a
> hobby.....racing a GRENADE (aka Cleveland) is as much an obsession as
Tiger
> Woods having 8-10 girlfriends. Its WONDERFUL until it breaks (aka busted)
> then its end of the world words like "never again", "I'm retiring, "I
quit"
> "I'm buying a new Camaro", "she is my best friend and we never fight"....
>
>
>
> Mad Dawg Antenucci
> Team Pantera Racing
>
> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
> www.teampanteraracing.com
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Will Kooiman <wkooiman at earthlink.net>
> To: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>; detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Sun, December 27, 2009 7:09:30 AM
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
>
> Actually, it isn't that big of a deal. It's embarrassing, yes. It's
> frustrating, but not too bad.
>
> I want my 351C, and I want it to stay together. I just got off the 351C
vs.
> 4.6 DOHC fence. Don't make me get back on.
>
> Remember, this is a hobby. You fly R/C planes until they crash. You
drive
> R/C cars until the wheels fall off. And THEN you stop. At least that's
how
> I play.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]
On
> Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:03 AM
> To: Will Kooiman; detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
>
> I don't need to tell a fellow former survivor of working on a chicken farm
> that this hurt in your heart that you feel is only temporary....as
someone
> said a while back if you run hard enough and long enough eventually sooner
> or later you are gonna break something.
>
> You have so gawd damn much passion Will I know you will be back....don't
> make me tell the story again about the 2 teenage girls who fell into the
> chicken shit pond on the chicken farm and no one would jump in to save
> them.....okay finally someone threw them some lumber.....you know the rest
> of the story....
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mad Dawg Antenucci - Former chicken farm alumni bro' of Will Kooiman
> Team Pantera Racing
> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
> www.teampanteraracing.com
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Will Kooiman <wkooiman at earthlink.net>
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Sat, December 26, 2009 9:07:59 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
>
> FYI - I grenaded my engine - again. I'm going to write a book. 50 ways
to
> blow your 351C. (I started to say Cleveland - don't you bet Larry would
> love that one?)
>
>
>
> How many times is this for me? 3? 4? I've lost count. I had a Thai
> friend in high school that used to say, "Run good boy, but don't last
long."
> Whatever.
>
>
>
> Here's what happened...
>
>
>
> I was taking it for a drive this morning. Oh wait. Before the drive, I
had
> a conversation with a guy whose dad used to race T-bolts. We went at it
for
> an hour trying to top each other's story. He was shocked when I told him
> you can still buy Panteras in the $35-40K range. I still think they're a
> fantastic deal on exotic cars - even though mine is garage art now (fire
> away Nolan).
>
>
>
> At any rate, here's what happened... I took it for a drive. It was
running
> great. I checked the timing yesterday and discovered it was on 12deg
> initial. I upped it to 15deg initial, 21 adv, for 36 total. I heard a
> slight knocking. The same noise I've been hearing. It wasn't pinging.
It
> was hitting on all 8. Oil pressure was on 50psi at 2000rpm. Nothing was
> popping out the Webers. Nothing was popping out the exhaust. I checked
the
> valve lash yesterday. Everything was exactly where I left it. I have a
> high volume (Rob McQ. sp?) fuel pump. I figured the high volume pump was
> knocking behind the timing cover. It has a heavier spring, so maybe that
> was the source of the knocking. That's what it sounded like anyway.
>
>
>
> I decided to turn around and head back home. I couldn't resist, though.
I
> pushed it about 1/2 way down. The tires immediately lit up. And then, it
> happened. It sounded like I knocked a 2" hole in one of the header pipes.
> Very loud - like BRAAAP BRAAAP BRAAAP. Sorry - it's hard to describe. I
> coasted for a while, found a good place to pull off, and called AAA.
>
>
>
> By the way, I'm still amazed at the difference with the Webers. It ran
> great with the Holley, but the Webers feel like it adds another 75hp to
the
> midrange. When I push it 1/2 way down, without popping the clutch, in
1st,
> it hits the rev-limiter almost immediately. I can't tell you what it does
> in 2nd or higher. All I can say is I'm hooked. I can only imagine what
> it's like in one of the EFI cars (Kirby's GT40, Mad Dawg's, etc.). Oh
yeah,
> it's also smoother, and quieter - more exotic - less muscle car (rumpity
> rump).
>
>
>
> My guess is it dropped another valve. That's the only thing I can come up
> with without opening it up. I feel like Dr. House. "It's
> circumflatulosis." "Start it on a 50cc of corkulene."
>
>
>
> I should mention that I have the 7500 pill in the MSD. With everything I
> have in the bottom end, I figured I could pull more than 6000rpm. Maybe
> not. If it's another valve issue, though, the bottom end has nothing to
do
> with it.
>
>
>
> I should also mention that I'm running the springs recommended by
CompCams.
> It has 7000 series stainless one-piece Ferrea valves. The heads were set
> up, CC'ed, etc. by a local shop that does work for NASCAR teams. If it
> really did drop another valve, I'm going to drop kick the whole mess to a
> real engine builder - i.e. not me.
>
>
>
> I should also also mention that I was going to pull the engine anyway.
> Really. I want to get it painted in January. The paint job will include
> fixing rust issues behind the fuel tank, which as everyone knows includes
> pulling the gas tank and the engine. So, yes, I really was going to pull
> the engine.
>
>
>
> No promises on when I'll pull the engine. I've used up my share of
kitchen
> passes. It may be a couple of weeks. I promise I'll take pics this time,
> though. Actually I took pics the last time, but the memory card in the
> camera is corrupt. I can see the pics in the camera, but I can't upload
them
> to the computer. The memory card was probably made by Lucas.
>
>
>
> Will (bummed in Texas)
>
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