[DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)

Will Kooiman wkooiman at earthlink.net
Sun Dec 27 15:59:00 EST 2009


Update:

 

The #4 rod is broken in half.

 

FYI - I torqued the rods to the specs they came with.  I don't remember the
specs.  I still have the specs, but they're not in front of me.  They are 6"
SCAT h-beam Chevy rods.  I measured the bolt length before/after.  They
stretched 0.004".

 

I won't know any more until next week - maybe.  I'm quitting for the day.

 

  _____  

From: Will Kooiman [mailto:wkooiman at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:25 PM
To: 'Mad Dog Antenucci'; 'detomaso at realbig.com'
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)

 

1.	Russ Phelps is too far away.
2.	I can see the pics on the camera, but I can't upload them.  I've
tried the USB cable on the camera.  I've also tried putting the SAN Disk
card in the reader on our HP printer.  Neither one will allow me to upload
the files.  I've considered buying a special card reader from the computer
store, but it hasn't been high enough priority yet.
3.	I have a spare 4-bolt block - 2 actually, if you count my original
block that needs a sleeve.

 

Update:

 

I removed the intake.  There were small bits of metal in the valley, plus
milky white/brown oil.  Yes, I know.  That means there's water in the oil.
They don't call me Mr. Valdez for nothing.

 

I looked into the ports, but couldn't see anything out of the ordinary.  The
#8 port was sucking a little bit of air - small black streak into the port.
At least that tells me why #8 wasn't sucking enough through the Weber
throat.

 

I removed the headers.  All of the exhaust ports were dry except for #4.
Aha - it's #4.

 

I removed the passenger's head.  #4 has a split cylinder, plus the piston is
cocked sideways in the bore - not quite 90deg - more like 45deg.

 

I can take a pic if someone can host it.

 

One more thing - all of the outer head bolts were loose.  Most were around
65 lb/ft.  The inner bolts were closer to 95 lb/ft.  That's on both sides -
not just the side the grenaded.  Note to self:  Retorque head bolts SEVERAL
times - not just once.

 

Known:

 

a)       I overheated the engine slightly just before it starting sounding
weird.  Slightly means about 220deg at the front of the block (manual
Autometer gauge).

b)       It made a weird sound, but it didn't run weird, nor was there water
in the oil - I changed the oil just a couple of days ago.  It was ok.

c)       I hit the rev limiter a couple of times.  The MSD has the 7500 chip
(I think - I'm about to go verify)

d)       The block is 0.030.  The crank is 3.7 offset ground 351C.

e)       The head gasket does not look blown.  I'm about to take a closer
look.

f)         I think that's it.

 

So, what happened?

a)       Did the cylinder split?

b)       Did I over-rev the engine?

 

Good news is the heads are fine.  The only damage is a closed spark plug
gap.  The bad news is the piston and block are toast.  I don't know about
the rod or crank.

 

  _____  

From: Mad Dog Antenucci [mailto:teampantera at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:13 PM
To: Will Kooiman; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)

 

Pleeeze....You play and you work hard.....flying R/C planes and cars is a
hobby.....racing a GRENADE (aka Cleveland) is as much an obsession as Tiger
Woods having 8-10 girlfriends. Its WONDERFUL until it breaks (aka busted)
then its end of the world words like "never again", "I'm retiring, "I quit"
"I'm buying a new Camaro", "she is my best friend and we never fight"....

 

Mad Dawg Antenucci 
Team Pantera Racing 

The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing 
www.teampanteraracing.com

 

 

  _____  

From: Will Kooiman <wkooiman at earthlink.net>
To: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>; detomaso at realbig.com
Sent: Sun, December 27, 2009 7:09:30 AM
Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)

Actually, it isn't that big of a deal.  It's embarrassing, yes.  It's
frustrating, but not too bad.

I want my 351C, and I want it to stay together.  I just got off the 351C vs.
4.6 DOHC fence.  Don't make me get back on.

Remember, this is a hobby.  You fly R/C planes until they crash.  You drive
R/C cars until the wheels fall off.  And THEN you stop.  At least that's how
I play.

-----Original Message-----
From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:03 AM
To: Will Kooiman; detomaso at realbig.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)

I don't need to tell a fellow former survivor of working on a chicken farm
that this hurt in your heart  that you feel is only temporary....as someone
said a while back if you run hard enough and long enough eventually sooner
or later you are gonna break something. 

You have so gawd damn much passion Will I know you will be back....don't
make me tell the story again about the 2 teenage girls who fell into the
chicken shit pond on the chicken farm and no one would jump in to save
them.....okay finally someone threw them some lumber.....you know the rest
of the story....






Mad Dawg Antenucci - Former chicken farm alumni bro' of Will Kooiman 
Team Pantera Racing 
The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing 
www.teampanteraracing.com




________________________________
From: Will Kooiman <wkooiman at earthlink.net>
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Sent: Sat, December 26, 2009 9:07:59 PM
Subject: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)

FYI - I grenaded my engine - again.  I'm going to write a book.  50 ways to
blow your 351C.  (I started to say Cleveland - don't you bet Larry would
love that one?)



How many times is this for me?  3?  4?  I've lost count.  I had a Thai
friend in high school that used to say, "Run good boy, but don't last long."
Whatever.



Here's what happened...



I was taking it for a drive this morning.  Oh wait.  Before the drive, I had
a conversation with a guy whose dad used to race T-bolts.  We went at it for
an hour trying to top each other's story.  He was shocked when I told him
you can still buy Panteras in the $35-40K range.  I still think they're a
fantastic deal on exotic cars - even though mine is garage art now (fire
away Nolan).



At any rate, here's what happened...  I took it for a drive.  It was running
great.  I checked the timing yesterday and discovered it was on 12deg
initial.  I upped it to 15deg initial, 21 adv, for 36 total.  I heard a
slight knocking.  The same noise I've been hearing.  It wasn't pinging.  It
was hitting on all 8.  Oil pressure was on 50psi at 2000rpm.  Nothing was
popping out the Webers.  Nothing was popping out the exhaust.  I checked the
valve lash yesterday.  Everything was exactly where I left it.  I have a
high volume (Rob McQ. sp?) fuel pump.  I figured the high volume pump was
knocking behind the timing cover.  It has a heavier spring, so maybe that
was the source of the knocking.  That's what it sounded like anyway.



I decided to turn around and head back home.  I couldn't resist, though.  I
pushed it about 1/2 way down.  The tires immediately lit up.  And then, it
happened.  It sounded like I knocked a 2" hole in one of the header pipes.
Very loud - like BRAAAP BRAAAP BRAAAP.  Sorry - it's hard to describe.  I
coasted for a while, found a good place to pull off, and called AAA.



By the way, I'm still amazed at the difference with the Webers.  It ran
great with the Holley, but the Webers feel like it adds another 75hp to the
midrange.  When I push it 1/2 way down, without popping the clutch, in 1st,
it hits the rev-limiter almost immediately.  I can't tell you what it does
in 2nd or higher.  All I can say is I'm hooked.  I can only imagine what
it's like in one of the EFI cars (Kirby's GT40, Mad Dawg's, etc.).  Oh yeah,
it's also smoother, and quieter - more exotic - less muscle car (rumpity
rump).



My guess is it dropped another valve.  That's the only thing I can come up
with without opening it up.  I feel like Dr. House.  "It's
circumflatulosis."  "Start it on a 50cc of corkulene."



I should mention that I have the 7500 pill in the MSD.  With everything I
have in the bottom end, I figured I could pull more than 6000rpm.  Maybe
not.  If it's another valve issue, though, the bottom end has nothing to do
with it.



I should also mention that I'm running the springs recommended by CompCams.
It has 7000 series stainless one-piece Ferrea valves.  The heads were set
up, CC'ed, etc. by a local shop that does work for NASCAR teams.  If it
really did drop another valve, I'm going to drop kick the whole mess to a
real engine builder - i.e. not me.



I should also also mention that I was going to pull the engine anyway.
Really.  I want to get it painted in January.  The paint job will include
fixing rust issues behind the fuel tank, which as everyone knows includes
pulling the gas tank and the engine.  So, yes, I really was going to pull
the engine.



No promises on when I'll pull the engine.  I've used up my share of kitchen
passes.  It may be a couple of weeks.  I promise I'll take pics this time,
though.  Actually I took pics the last time, but the memory card in the
camera is corrupt. I can see the pics in the camera, but I can't upload them
to the computer.  The memory card was probably made by Lucas.



Will (bummed in Texas)

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