[DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)

Bill Lewis lotus0005 at hotmail.com
Sun Dec 27 18:47:00 EST 2009


Will, there has to be some way in this modern, hyper-tech world of America, for J DeRyke to send a signal up to a satellite, then beam back down to you, and you stick some type of camera-doohickey in your spark plug holes, and then he can look and see what your internal problems are.  Larry (from Cleveland), you can jump in here and medically explain this.    ---Bill





> From: wkooiman at earthlink.net
> To: teampantera at yahoo.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:25:17 -0600
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
> 
> 1.	Russ Phelps is too far away.
> 2.	I can see the pics on the camera, but I can't upload them.  I've
> tried the USB cable on the camera.  I've also tried putting the SAN Disk
> card in the reader on our HP printer.  Neither one will allow me to upload
> the files.  I've considered buying a special card reader from the computer
> store, but it hasn't been high enough priority yet.
> 3.	I have a spare 4-bolt block - 2 actually, if you count my original
> block that needs a sleeve.
> 
>  
> 
> Update:
> 
>  
> 
> I removed the intake.  There were small bits of metal in the valley, plus
> milky white/brown oil.  Yes, I know.  That means there's water in the oil.
> They don't call me Mr. Valdez for nothing.
> 
>  
> 
> I looked into the ports, but couldn't see anything out of the ordinary.  The
> #8 port was sucking a little bit of air - small black streak into the port.
> At least that tells me why #8 wasn't sucking enough through the Weber
> throat.
> 
>  
> 
> I removed the headers.  All of the exhaust ports were dry except for #4.
> Aha - it's #4.
> 
>  
> 
> I removed the passenger's head.  #4 has a split cylinder, plus the piston is
> cocked sideways in the bore - not quite 90deg - more like 45deg.
> 
>  
> 
> I can take a pic if someone can host it.
> 
>  
> 
> One more thing - all of the outer head bolts were loose.  Most were around
> 65 lb/ft.  The inner bolts were closer to 95 lb/ft.  That's on both sides -
> not just the side the grenaded.  Note to self:  Retorque head bolts SEVERAL
> times - not just once.
> 
>  
> 
> Known:
> 
>  
> 
> a)       I overheated the engine slightly just before it starting sounding
> weird.  Slightly means about 220deg at the front of the block (manual
> Autometer gauge).
> 
> b)       It made a weird sound, but it didn't run weird, nor was there water
> in the oil - I changed the oil just a couple of days ago.  It was ok.
> 
> c)       I hit the rev limiter a couple of times.  The MSD has the 7500 chip
> (I think - I'm about to go verify)
> 
> d)       The block is 0.030.  The crank is 3.7 offset ground 351C.
> 
> e)       The head gasket does not look blown.  I'm about to take a closer
> look.
> 
> f)         I think that's it.
> 
>  
> 
> So, what happened?
> 
> a)       Did the cylinder split?
> 
> b)       Did I over-rev the engine?
> 
>  
> 
> Good news is the heads are fine.  The only damage is a closed spark plug
> gap.  The bad news is the piston and block are toast.  I don't know about
> the rod or crank.
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: Mad Dog Antenucci [mailto:teampantera at yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:13 PM
> To: Will Kooiman; detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
> 
>  
> 
> Pleeeze....You play and you work hard.....flying R/C planes and cars is a
> hobby.....racing a GRENADE (aka Cleveland) is as much an obsession as Tiger
> Woods having 8-10 girlfriends. Its WONDERFUL until it breaks (aka busted)
> then its end of the world words like "never again", "I'm retiring, "I quit"
> "I'm buying a new Camaro", "she is my best friend and we never fight"....
> 
>  
> 
> Mad Dawg Antenucci 
> Team Pantera Racing 
> 
> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing 
> www.teampanteraracing.com
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: Will Kooiman <wkooiman at earthlink.net>
> To: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>; detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Sun, December 27, 2009 7:09:30 AM
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
> 
> Actually, it isn't that big of a deal.  It's embarrassing, yes.  It's
> frustrating, but not too bad.
> 
> I want my 351C, and I want it to stay together.  I just got off the 351C vs.
> 4.6 DOHC fence.  Don't make me get back on.
> 
> Remember, this is a hobby.  You fly R/C planes until they crash.  You drive
> R/C cars until the wheels fall off.  And THEN you stop.  At least that's how
> I play.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
> Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:03 AM
> To: Will Kooiman; detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
> 
> I don't need to tell a fellow former survivor of working on a chicken farm
> that this hurt in your heart  that you feel is only temporary....as someone
> said a while back if you run hard enough and long enough eventually sooner
> or later you are gonna break something. 
> 
> You have so gawd damn much passion Will I know you will be back....don't
> make me tell the story again about the 2 teenage girls who fell into the
> chicken shit pond on the chicken farm and no one would jump in to save
> them.....okay finally someone threw them some lumber.....you know the rest
> of the story....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Dawg Antenucci - Former chicken farm alumni bro' of Will Kooiman 
> Team Pantera Racing 
> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing 
> www.teampanteraracing.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Will Kooiman <wkooiman at earthlink.net>
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Sat, December 26, 2009 9:07:59 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
> 
> FYI - I grenaded my engine - again.  I'm going to write a book.  50 ways to
> blow your 351C.  (I started to say Cleveland - don't you bet Larry would
> love that one?)
> 
> 
> 
> How many times is this for me?  3?  4?  I've lost count.  I had a Thai
> friend in high school that used to say, "Run good boy, but don't last long."
> Whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's what happened...
> 
> 
> 
> I was taking it for a drive this morning.  Oh wait.  Before the drive, I had
> a conversation with a guy whose dad used to race T-bolts.  We went at it for
> an hour trying to top each other's story.  He was shocked when I told him
> you can still buy Panteras in the $35-40K range.  I still think they're a
> fantastic deal on exotic cars - even though mine is garage art now (fire
> away Nolan).
> 
> 
> 
> At any rate, here's what happened...  I took it for a drive.  It was running
> great.  I checked the timing yesterday and discovered it was on 12deg
> initial.  I upped it to 15deg initial, 21 adv, for 36 total.  I heard a
> slight knocking.  The same noise I've been hearing.  It wasn't pinging.  It
> was hitting on all 8.  Oil pressure was on 50psi at 2000rpm.  Nothing was
> popping out the Webers.  Nothing was popping out the exhaust.  I checked the
> valve lash yesterday.  Everything was exactly where I left it.  I have a
> high volume (Rob McQ. sp?) fuel pump.  I figured the high volume pump was
> knocking behind the timing cover.  It has a heavier spring, so maybe that
> was the source of the knocking.  That's what it sounded like anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> I decided to turn around and head back home.  I couldn't resist, though.  I
> pushed it about 1/2 way down.  The tires immediately lit up.  And then, it
> happened.  It sounded like I knocked a 2" hole in one of the header pipes.
> Very loud - like BRAAAP BRAAAP BRAAAP.  Sorry - it's hard to describe.  I
> coasted for a while, found a good place to pull off, and called AAA.
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, I'm still amazed at the difference with the Webers.  It ran
> great with the Holley, but the Webers feel like it adds another 75hp to the
> midrange.  When I push it 1/2 way down, without popping the clutch, in 1st,
> it hits the rev-limiter almost immediately.  I can't tell you what it does
> in 2nd or higher.  All I can say is I'm hooked.  I can only imagine what
> it's like in one of the EFI cars (Kirby's GT40, Mad Dawg's, etc.).  Oh yeah,
> it's also smoother, and quieter - more exotic - less muscle car (rumpity
> rump).
> 
> 
> 
> My guess is it dropped another valve.  That's the only thing I can come up
> with without opening it up.  I feel like Dr. House.  "It's
> circumflatulosis."  "Start it on a 50cc of corkulene."
> 
> 
> 
> I should mention that I have the 7500 pill in the MSD.  With everything I
> have in the bottom end, I figured I could pull more than 6000rpm.  Maybe
> not.  If it's another valve issue, though, the bottom end has nothing to do
> with it.
> 
> 
> 
> I should also mention that I'm running the springs recommended by CompCams.
> It has 7000 series stainless one-piece Ferrea valves.  The heads were set
> up, CC'ed, etc. by a local shop that does work for NASCAR teams.  If it
> really did drop another valve, I'm going to drop kick the whole mess to a
> real engine builder - i.e. not me.
> 
> 
> 
> I should also also mention that I was going to pull the engine anyway.
> Really.  I want to get it painted in January.  The paint job will include
> fixing rust issues behind the fuel tank, which as everyone knows includes
> pulling the gas tank and the engine.  So, yes, I really was going to pull
> the engine.
> 
> 
> 
> No promises on when I'll pull the engine.  I've used up my share of kitchen
> passes.  It may be a couple of weeks.  I promise I'll take pics this time,
> though.  Actually I took pics the last time, but the memory card in the
> camera is corrupt. I can see the pics in the camera, but I can't upload them
> to the computer.  The memory card was probably made by Lucas.
> 
> 
> 
> Will (bummed in Texas)
> 
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