[DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
Bill Lewis
lotus0005 at hotmail.com
Sun Dec 27 18:47:00 EST 2009
Will, there has to be some way in this modern, hyper-tech world of America, for J DeRyke to send a signal up to a satellite, then beam back down to you, and you stick some type of camera-doohickey in your spark plug holes, and then he can look and see what your internal problems are. Larry (from Cleveland), you can jump in here and medically explain this. ---Bill
> From: wkooiman at earthlink.net
> To: teampantera at yahoo.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:25:17 -0600
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
>
> 1. Russ Phelps is too far away.
> 2. I can see the pics on the camera, but I can't upload them. I've
> tried the USB cable on the camera. I've also tried putting the SAN Disk
> card in the reader on our HP printer. Neither one will allow me to upload
> the files. I've considered buying a special card reader from the computer
> store, but it hasn't been high enough priority yet.
> 3. I have a spare 4-bolt block - 2 actually, if you count my original
> block that needs a sleeve.
>
>
>
> Update:
>
>
>
> I removed the intake. There were small bits of metal in the valley, plus
> milky white/brown oil. Yes, I know. That means there's water in the oil.
> They don't call me Mr. Valdez for nothing.
>
>
>
> I looked into the ports, but couldn't see anything out of the ordinary. The
> #8 port was sucking a little bit of air - small black streak into the port.
> At least that tells me why #8 wasn't sucking enough through the Weber
> throat.
>
>
>
> I removed the headers. All of the exhaust ports were dry except for #4.
> Aha - it's #4.
>
>
>
> I removed the passenger's head. #4 has a split cylinder, plus the piston is
> cocked sideways in the bore - not quite 90deg - more like 45deg.
>
>
>
> I can take a pic if someone can host it.
>
>
>
> One more thing - all of the outer head bolts were loose. Most were around
> 65 lb/ft. The inner bolts were closer to 95 lb/ft. That's on both sides -
> not just the side the grenaded. Note to self: Retorque head bolts SEVERAL
> times - not just once.
>
>
>
> Known:
>
>
>
> a) I overheated the engine slightly just before it starting sounding
> weird. Slightly means about 220deg at the front of the block (manual
> Autometer gauge).
>
> b) It made a weird sound, but it didn't run weird, nor was there water
> in the oil - I changed the oil just a couple of days ago. It was ok.
>
> c) I hit the rev limiter a couple of times. The MSD has the 7500 chip
> (I think - I'm about to go verify)
>
> d) The block is 0.030. The crank is 3.7 offset ground 351C.
>
> e) The head gasket does not look blown. I'm about to take a closer
> look.
>
> f) I think that's it.
>
>
>
> So, what happened?
>
> a) Did the cylinder split?
>
> b) Did I over-rev the engine?
>
>
>
> Good news is the heads are fine. The only damage is a closed spark plug
> gap. The bad news is the piston and block are toast. I don't know about
> the rod or crank.
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Mad Dog Antenucci [mailto:teampantera at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:13 PM
> To: Will Kooiman; detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
>
>
>
> Pleeeze....You play and you work hard.....flying R/C planes and cars is a
> hobby.....racing a GRENADE (aka Cleveland) is as much an obsession as Tiger
> Woods having 8-10 girlfriends. Its WONDERFUL until it breaks (aka busted)
> then its end of the world words like "never again", "I'm retiring, "I quit"
> "I'm buying a new Camaro", "she is my best friend and we never fight"....
>
>
>
> Mad Dawg Antenucci
> Team Pantera Racing
>
> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
> www.teampanteraracing.com
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Will Kooiman <wkooiman at earthlink.net>
> To: Mad Dog Antenucci <teampantera at yahoo.com>; detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Sun, December 27, 2009 7:09:30 AM
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
>
> Actually, it isn't that big of a deal. It's embarrassing, yes. It's
> frustrating, but not too bad.
>
> I want my 351C, and I want it to stay together. I just got off the 351C vs.
> 4.6 DOHC fence. Don't make me get back on.
>
> Remember, this is a hobby. You fly R/C planes until they crash. You drive
> R/C cars until the wheels fall off. And THEN you stop. At least that's how
> I play.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com] On
> Behalf Of Mad Dog Antenucci
> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:03 AM
> To: Will Kooiman; detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
>
> I don't need to tell a fellow former survivor of working on a chicken farm
> that this hurt in your heart that you feel is only temporary....as someone
> said a while back if you run hard enough and long enough eventually sooner
> or later you are gonna break something.
>
> You have so gawd damn much passion Will I know you will be back....don't
> make me tell the story again about the 2 teenage girls who fell into the
> chicken shit pond on the chicken farm and no one would jump in to save
> them.....okay finally someone threw them some lumber.....you know the rest
> of the story....
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mad Dawg Antenucci - Former chicken farm alumni bro' of Will Kooiman
> Team Pantera Racing
> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
> www.teampanteraracing.com
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Will Kooiman <wkooiman at earthlink.net>
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Sat, December 26, 2009 9:07:59 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] Another Grenade Job - (sorry long)
>
> FYI - I grenaded my engine - again. I'm going to write a book. 50 ways to
> blow your 351C. (I started to say Cleveland - don't you bet Larry would
> love that one?)
>
>
>
> How many times is this for me? 3? 4? I've lost count. I had a Thai
> friend in high school that used to say, "Run good boy, but don't last long."
> Whatever.
>
>
>
> Here's what happened...
>
>
>
> I was taking it for a drive this morning. Oh wait. Before the drive, I had
> a conversation with a guy whose dad used to race T-bolts. We went at it for
> an hour trying to top each other's story. He was shocked when I told him
> you can still buy Panteras in the $35-40K range. I still think they're a
> fantastic deal on exotic cars - even though mine is garage art now (fire
> away Nolan).
>
>
>
> At any rate, here's what happened... I took it for a drive. It was running
> great. I checked the timing yesterday and discovered it was on 12deg
> initial. I upped it to 15deg initial, 21 adv, for 36 total. I heard a
> slight knocking. The same noise I've been hearing. It wasn't pinging. It
> was hitting on all 8. Oil pressure was on 50psi at 2000rpm. Nothing was
> popping out the Webers. Nothing was popping out the exhaust. I checked the
> valve lash yesterday. Everything was exactly where I left it. I have a
> high volume (Rob McQ. sp?) fuel pump. I figured the high volume pump was
> knocking behind the timing cover. It has a heavier spring, so maybe that
> was the source of the knocking. That's what it sounded like anyway.
>
>
>
> I decided to turn around and head back home. I couldn't resist, though. I
> pushed it about 1/2 way down. The tires immediately lit up. And then, it
> happened. It sounded like I knocked a 2" hole in one of the header pipes.
> Very loud - like BRAAAP BRAAAP BRAAAP. Sorry - it's hard to describe. I
> coasted for a while, found a good place to pull off, and called AAA.
>
>
>
> By the way, I'm still amazed at the difference with the Webers. It ran
> great with the Holley, but the Webers feel like it adds another 75hp to the
> midrange. When I push it 1/2 way down, without popping the clutch, in 1st,
> it hits the rev-limiter almost immediately. I can't tell you what it does
> in 2nd or higher. All I can say is I'm hooked. I can only imagine what
> it's like in one of the EFI cars (Kirby's GT40, Mad Dawg's, etc.). Oh yeah,
> it's also smoother, and quieter - more exotic - less muscle car (rumpity
> rump).
>
>
>
> My guess is it dropped another valve. That's the only thing I can come up
> with without opening it up. I feel like Dr. House. "It's
> circumflatulosis." "Start it on a 50cc of corkulene."
>
>
>
> I should mention that I have the 7500 pill in the MSD. With everything I
> have in the bottom end, I figured I could pull more than 6000rpm. Maybe
> not. If it's another valve issue, though, the bottom end has nothing to do
> with it.
>
>
>
> I should also mention that I'm running the springs recommended by CompCams.
> It has 7000 series stainless one-piece Ferrea valves. The heads were set
> up, CC'ed, etc. by a local shop that does work for NASCAR teams. If it
> really did drop another valve, I'm going to drop kick the whole mess to a
> real engine builder - i.e. not me.
>
>
>
> I should also also mention that I was going to pull the engine anyway.
> Really. I want to get it painted in January. The paint job will include
> fixing rust issues behind the fuel tank, which as everyone knows includes
> pulling the gas tank and the engine. So, yes, I really was going to pull
> the engine.
>
>
>
> No promises on when I'll pull the engine. I've used up my share of kitchen
> passes. It may be a couple of weeks. I promise I'll take pics this time,
> though. Actually I took pics the last time, but the memory card in the
> camera is corrupt. I can see the pics in the camera, but I can't upload them
> to the computer. The memory card was probably made by Lucas.
>
>
>
> Will (bummed in Texas)
>
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