[DeTomaso] MDs Radiators (1985 to 2008)

Mon Jun 16 12:25:04 EDT 2008

Thanks Ken for the Specs....now everyone knows stoopid! ;-]>

  Seriously thanks again for supporting the out of the box thinking on the cooling challenges
  I'd agree with Ron Davis that there are better options for a aftermarket radiator then what we used but for whatever reasons we have labored here on the List they work. 

  Definately agree with Richard, Goran and others on the subject of flow of air over and out of the radiator. Purpose of beating everyone over the head on the RAD subject was to get everyone including our List Professors to think out of the box on the challenges of cooling.

  As Mike Trusty says everything on a street Pantera is a compromise. So all I wanted was the  most effective cooling at ALL speeds. My Pantera is not a race car. The radiator ALONE did not get us there, neither did adding taller gears....Neither did the hood or mods to water pump etc. 

  My compromises were that I needed the cooling system to not just work on the street but to work in SoCal or Nevada or the better Texas stop-n-go traffic ;-] 
  but  also work at 150-180 mph on a 100F day headed into a 15-30 mph headwind with a 550-600 HP iron blocked Cleveland. 

  One correction to your last statement here and that is regarding my previous radiators. They did in fact all work well from 85-05 with the following 'qualifications';

  Stock Rad - Worked great as long as the car was moving! Added Hall Phoenix unit in 95..think it was built in LA for Hall by Griffith <?>...all of them were leakers

  Hall Phoenix #1 - Brass Radiator purpose built by Gary Hall...Worked great for Silver State (200-210F) up to 150 mph and 20 minute track conditions but was marginal for the street....temps with 2 fans working was 230-240F. NOTE: Ran the front 'hood-stops' up an inch on advise of Junior Wilson at my first ORR.

  Hall Phoenix #2 - Added a 3rd fan (sound familiar?) for the street - no difference in cooling...BUT now it is running 10-20F hotter at WOT in open road race conditions (140-165 mph)...again ran the hood-stops up an inch. 

  Hall Phoenix #3 - Added due to continued QA/leaking problems...added Hall hood vents...NO DIFFERENCE in cooling in traffic, track or orr conditions

  Fluidyne Rad #4 - ALUMINUM FLUIDYNE with 2 suckers on backside. Actually ran COOLER on the street and in heavy/hot traffic and did okay in open road race conditions but ran HOTTER then the brass radiator on speeds above 150....flow could not keep up with conditions and orr temps would go to 240F before I would back off. This was with taller gears, a vented stock hood but NOT the hood I have been using since 2006

  Ron Davis #5 - ALUMINIUM (Ron Davis Craftman Truck Series) as Ken described below added in 2006
  180-190F in normal traffic.......going to as hot as 200-210F in stop-n-go heavy traffic but NO higher even after an hour....running 180-190F in open track and 200-210 in ORR up to 180 Mph where as water temp actually started going DOWN UNDER 200F above 160-165 mph.
  No additional changes to gears and there was no difference in temps going to IR-EFI system.

  Dawg

Ken Green <kenn_green at yahoo.com> wrote:

Several people have asked about the radiator Dennis has been running the past 2 years. I picked up two of these as targets of opportunity. The seller said they were new Ron Davis radiators from a Craftsman Truck team that made some changes. I also talked to the Tech guy at Ron Davis. They are as follows:

Single pass
4 core (comes out to 6 inches thick
30 1/4 inches wide at the widest point (the bottom side are tapered some)
16 inches tall

They barely fit, and required removing any metal brackets around them, and maybe a little metal pounding.

They are specifically super speedway radiators, made for high speed use at 200 + MPH

The guy at Ron Davis did NOT recommend them for street use because it would be hard to draw enough air through them to keep them cool below 100 MPH.

Maybe Dennis can add some more, from his recent posts it appears that they work great at all speeds, but that's in his car, your results may vary. I think Dennis switched to this radiator without motor changes, and the results were better than hoped for. But, Dennis also opened up his hood to allow a portion if the radiator air flow to escape. I think I was talking to Richard Barkley Saturday, and he said when he ran his engine with the hood open the fans did not come on, and with the hood closed, the engine heated up, and they came on. The suggests that for Dennis's results, you need to open up the hood.

My theory is that a big single pass radiator is good in a Pantera because there is less restriction to flow (the long pipes probably add enough restriction), and the large volume provides a long dwell time. This goes against the logic that you need a high flow velocity to get turbulent flow, but maybe the design helps that. At idle, it seems like the flow would be really slow, But then there is the long dwell time to offset the loss of mixing from turbulence (just guessing).

It is my understanding that no previous radiator worked for Dennis the way these do. So if you want to cruise at 170 for 100 miles, it may be a solution. 

Ken
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