[DeTomaso] Overheating problem
George B
gkb1968 at hotmail.com
Mon Jul 15 18:03:14 EDT 2024
If you have an adjustable timing light, you can dial in any degree of advance you want and just line it up to TDC mark.
I took several data points and was able to map out my mechanical advance curve in nice detail. Was able to verify weights and springs assembly are working properly in real time and setup that curve on an aftermarket distributor very easily.
George
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
________________________________
From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2024 5:17:22 PM
To: George B <gkb1968 at hotmail.com>
Cc: John Neal <jrnealjr at aol.com>; georgesekula at outlook.com <georgesekula at outlook.com>; MikeLDrew at aol.com <MikeLDrew at aol.com>; detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Overheating problem
+1 Recommended
In my case I used a small tapered punch and smacked a dimple on the flywheel for TDC. I then put one at 10 and again at 32 (if I recall; I may be wrong on the final dimple). I think I may have also used alpha-numeric punches to say which was which. Been a long time and the flywheel went to Steve Lisa along with the rest of the car. 😁
That made it so much easier to track timing without taking the bulkhead cover out.
Asa Jay
Sent via radio waves
> On Jul 15, 2024, at 13:48, George B <gkb1968 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Next time you have the bulkhead off you could mark the flywheel. Put
> crank to TDC on damper (or use a piston stop if you don't trust it or
> don't want to remove interior). Then Sharpie a line on the OD of
> flywheel with a corresponding dot/line on the inner edge of the bell
> housing inspection hole. Use an adjustable timing light which is very
> inexpensive these days. Then you can check time properly in minutes no
> tools required.
>
> I've used this technique since 2001 with very good results and a lot
> less cursing about taking the roll cage and seats out for a 5min job.
>
> George
>
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> Get [1]Outlook for Android
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
> John Neal via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2024 1:47:59 PM
> To: georgesekula at outlook.com <georgesekula at outlook.com>;
> mikeldrew at aol.com <mikeldrew at aol.com>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Overheating problem
>
> Retarded Timing can cause overheating and dieseling when the engine is
> turned off. I adjusted mine so the engine is hard to turn over when
> hot and then backed the timing off until the engine cranks freely when
> hot.
> Way less work then pulling the seats and bulkhead to connect a timing
> light.
> In a message dated 7/15/2024 11:57:44 AM Central Standard Time,
> georgesekula at outlook.com writes:
> Thank you all for your help. Dozens of attempts, three times I could
> idle for 30 minutes without an excursion, then 10 minutes on the
> highway and the temperature climbs. Drained oil and found no
> contamination. No smoke out the tailpipe. No little air bubble,
> just
> volcano like eruptions. Did a combustion-gas-in-coolant test four
> times with no combustion gas detected. When I did a cylinder leak
> down
> test on cylinder 3, pointer was in the red and coolant was
> overflowing
> the pressure tank. I have some work to do, hoping it is just the
> head
> gasket.
> __________________________________________________________________
> From: Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 5:05 PM
> To: George Sekula <georgesekula at outlook.com>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Overheating problem
> George,
> The symptoms you describe are consistent with a lot of trapped air in
> the system. Filling and bleeding the system is normally an iterative
> process that can take several days (for complete cooldown between
> bleeds).
> With the radiator bleeder open, and the rear of the car elevated, the
> pressure tank should be filled while the engine is running. When the
> thermostat opens it will gulp water from the tank, practically
> emptying
> it, at which point you should top it off.
> This will make a big fat mess.
> Bleeding the air from the bleeder and topping off the tank after the
> thermostat has opened will enable you to get it mostly full. Then
> install a new cap on the pressure tank and ensure the overflow is
> about
> half full.
> When the car cools off it may suck water from the overflow so the
> pressure tank remains full but the overflow level is reduced. If your
> cap is leaking it will just suck air, so the pressure tank level will
> be down and the overflow will remain the same.
> After a few cycles it should resolve itself.
> As a technique I sometimes overfill the overflow bottle, knowing that
> it will dump excess coolant overboard. Route a long hose from the
> overflow to the rear of the car so it doesn't get onto the tire.
> It will dump upon engine shutdown. This can be embarrassing but
> eventually it will reach its happy spot and stop dumping.
> Good luck and please keep us posted!
> Mike
> Sent from my iPad
>>> On Jul 1, 2024, at 13:35, George Sekula <georgesekula at outlook.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I am struggling with overheating after I changed the water pump
> and
>> thermostat. New water pump is an Edelbrock 8844 with a new
> overdrive
>> pully. The thermostat is a Robertshaw 333 from Flowkooler via
> Summit
>> Racing. I tested the operating temperature on the thermostat
> several
>> times and it opens at exactly at180F. The dimensions match their
>> website. The original bypass restrictor is still installed, with
> a
>> 3/4" hole; the thermostat plunger is 11/16". It acts like there
> is
>> water in the engine that does not get circulated until you shut
> the
>> engine off. Hot water violently flows into the overflow tank and
> the
>> water temperature instantly raises 30F. When you start the engine
>> everything acts normal. You can feel the water start to flow in
> the
>> tube at 180F, radiator warms up, fans turn on and the temperature
> holds
>> perfect for a while. Then the temperature slowly climbs. Driving
> the
>> car, the temperature will slowly climb higher, maybe 210F. The two
>> radiator fan temperature switches work as they should, but they
> are
> not
>> detecting this hot water. When I filled the system, the bleeder
> on
> top
>> of the radiator was open with 3 ft of clear tubing to get it
> higher
>> than the block and tanks. The temperature sender in the top of
> the
>> block was removed until coolant flowed out (wish I had added
> tubing).
>> Tried raising the back, then tried raising the front while topping
> off
>> the tank. The leaking pump that I replaced was a Wieland and it
> was
> not
>> drilled for the bypass circuit, the thermostat was a Gates 180
> that
> I
>> installed 30 years ago. Radiator is a 3-pass aluminum with two
> large
>> pusher fans. What is the best method for filling the system to
> prevent
>> trapped air? Are there other things that I need to check?
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
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>
> 1. https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg
> 2. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso_______________________________________________
> 3. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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-------------- next part --------------
If you have an adjustable timing light, you can dial in any degree of
advance you want and just line it up to TDC mark.
I took several data points and was able to map out my mechanical
advance curve in nice detail. Was able to verify weights and springs
assembly are working properly in real time and setup that curve on an
aftermarket distributor very easily.
George
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Get [1]Outlook for Android
__________________________________________________________________
From: Asa Jay Laughton <asajay at asajay.com>
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2024 5:17:22 PM
To: George B <gkb1968 at hotmail.com>
Cc: John Neal <jrnealjr at aol.com>; georgesekula at outlook.com
<georgesekula at outlook.com>; MikeLDrew at aol.com <MikeLDrew at aol.com>;
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Overheating problem
+1 Recommended
In my case I used a small tapered punch and smacked a dimple on the
flywheel for TDC. I then put one at 10 and again at 32 (if I recall; I
may be wrong on the final dimple). I think I may have also used
alpha-numeric punches to say which was which. Been a long time and the
flywheel went to Steve Lisa along with the rest of the car.
That made it so much easier to track timing without taking the bulkhead
cover out.
Asa Jay
Sent via radio waves
> On Jul 15, 2024, at 13:48, George B <gkb1968 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Next time you have the bulkhead off you could mark the flywheel.
Put
> crank to TDC on damper (or use a piston stop if you don't trust it
or
> don't want to remove interior). Then Sharpie a line on the OD of
> flywheel with a corresponding dot/line on the inner edge of the
bell
> housing inspection hole. Use an adjustable timing light which is
very
> inexpensive these days. Then you can check time properly in minutes
no
> tools required.
>
> I've used this technique since 2001 with very good results and a
lot
> less cursing about taking the roll cage and seats out for a 5min
job.
>
> George
>
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> Get [1]Outlook for Android
>
__________________________________________________________________
>
> From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
of
> John Neal via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2024 1:47:59 PM
> To: georgesekula at outlook.com <georgesekula at outlook.com>;
> mikeldrew at aol.com <mikeldrew at aol.com>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Overheating problem
>
> Retarded Timing can cause overheating and dieseling when the engine
is
> turned off. I adjusted mine so the engine is hard to turn over
when
> hot and then backed the timing off until the engine cranks freely
when
> hot.
> Way less work then pulling the seats and bulkhead to connect a
timing
> light.
> In a message dated 7/15/2024 11:57:44 AM Central Standard Time,
> georgesekula at outlook.com writes:
> Thank you all for your help. Dozens of attempts, three times I
could
> idle for 30 minutes without an excursion, then 10 minutes on the
> highway and the temperature climbs. Drained oil and found no
> contamination. No smoke out the tailpipe. No little air bubble,
> just
> volcano like eruptions. Did a combustion-gas-in-coolant test
four
> times with no combustion gas detected. When I did a cylinder
leak
> down
> test on cylinder 3, pointer was in the red and coolant was
> overflowing
> the pressure tank. I have some work to do, hoping it is just the
> head
> gasket.
>
__________________________________________________________________
> From: Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 5:05 PM
> To: George Sekula <georgesekula at outlook.com>
> Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Overheating problem
> George,
> The symptoms you describe are consistent with a lot of trapped
air in
> the system. Filling and bleeding the system is normally an
iterative
> process that can take several days (for complete cooldown between
> bleeds).
> With the radiator bleeder open, and the rear of the car elevated,
the
> pressure tank should be filled while the engine is running. When
the
> thermostat opens it will gulp water from the tank, practically
> emptying
> it, at which point you should top it off.
> This will make a big fat mess.
> Bleeding the air from the bleeder and topping off the tank after
the
> thermostat has opened will enable you to get it mostly full. Then
> install a new cap on the pressure tank and ensure the overflow is
> about
> half full.
> When the car cools off it may suck water from the overflow so the
> pressure tank remains full but the overflow level is reduced. If
your
> cap is leaking it will just suck air, so the pressure tank level
will
> be down and the overflow will remain the same.
> After a few cycles it should resolve itself.
> As a technique I sometimes overfill the overflow bottle, knowing
that
> it will dump excess coolant overboard. Route a long hose from the
> overflow to the rear of the car so it doesn't get onto the tire.
> It will dump upon engine shutdown. This can be embarrassing but
> eventually it will reach its happy spot and stop dumping.
> Good luck and please keep us posted!
> Mike
> Sent from my iPad
>>> On Jul 1, 2024, at 13:35, George Sekula <georgesekula at outlook.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I am struggling with overheating after I changed the water pump
> and
>> thermostat. New water pump is an Edelbrock 8844 with a new
> overdrive
>> pully. The thermostat is a Robertshaw 333 from Flowkooler via
> Summit
>> Racing. I tested the operating temperature on the thermostat
> several
>> times and it opens at exactly at180F. The dimensions match their
>> website. The original bypass restrictor is still installed, with
> a
>> 3/4" hole; the thermostat plunger is 11/16". It acts like there
> is
>> water in the engine that does not get circulated until you shut
> the
>> engine off. Hot water violently flows into the overflow tank and
> the
>> water temperature instantly raises 30F. When you start the engine
>> everything acts normal. You can feel the water start to flow in
> the
>> tube at 180F, radiator warms up, fans turn on and the temperature
> holds
>> perfect for a while. Then the temperature slowly climbs. Driving
> the
>> car, the temperature will slowly climb higher, maybe 210F. The two
>> radiator fan temperature switches work as they should, but they
> are
> not
>> detecting this hot water. When I filled the system, the bleeder
> on
> top
>> of the radiator was open with 3 ft of clear tubing to get it
> higher
>> than the block and tanks. The temperature sender in the top of
> the
>> block was removed until coolant flowed out (wish I had added
> tubing).
>> Tried raising the back, then tried raising the front while topping
> off
>> the tank. The leaking pump that I replaced was a Wieland and it
> was
> not
>> drilled for the bypass circuit, the thermostat was a Gates 180
> that
> I
>> installed 30 years ago. Radiator is a 3-pass aluminum with two
> large
>> pusher fans. What is the best method for filling the system to
> prevent
>> trapped air? Are there other things that I need to check?
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
>> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
>> DeTomaso mailing list
>> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
>>
>
>
[1]https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserv
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er.detomasolist.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdetomaso&data=05%7C02%7C%7C6
>
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>
>
7C0%7C638554647307519594%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLC
>
>
JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=9CLYWQX
> uEiC4o4AUpK9QHsFbAdZ4UOrpdxKtaqk2noQ%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
> etc.)
> use the links above.
>>
>> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
> any message posted here to all past, current, or future members
of
> the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
> archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
> References
> 1.
>
[2]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso____________
> ___________________________________
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
> [3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
etc.)
> use the links above.
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any
> message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
> list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an
archive
> or approve the archiving of list messages.
>
> References
>
> 1. [2]https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg
> 2.
[3]http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso____________
___________________________________
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> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
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> DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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> To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
>
> Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
any message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
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2. https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg
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