[DeTomaso] Odd problem

Wed May 17 10:24:38 EDT 2023

Thank you Mike.  Or rather I'll then have one to replace the one currently in my engine before it goes back in the car.
Mike T.

-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On Behalf Of Mike Drew via DeTomaso
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2023 10:29 PM
To: MIKE DREW <MikeLDrew at aol.com>
Cc: Email List Address For Posting <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Larry Finch <fresnofinches at aol.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Odd problem

All,

My Summit package arrived today, and as expected, it contained a standard 351C Robertshaw thermostat, the BRA 333-180, and NOT the ‘substitute’ version they also sell with an undersized block off plate. Summit lists the right part number and the wrong description for the part on their website,  but ships the correct part. 

Assuming Chris ordered these same parts, he will get what he needs. And Mike Thomas had me send him some from my stock so they will have twice as many as they need!

Mike

Sent from my iPad

> On May 15, 2023, at 08:35, Mike Drew <mikeldrew at aol.com> wrote:
> 
> All,
> 
> I was convinced to ship a gasket and thermostat from my stock to Mike Thomas, who will then pay for the substitute (hah!) I get from Summit. I just packed and shipped mine to him, and ordered the new ones from Summit. They will likely arrive here tomorrow and then we will know for sure what’s going on there. 
> 
> If Chris doesn’t get his in time Mike will let him use his.
> 
> Stay tuned…
> 
> Mike
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On May 13, 2023, at 17:12, MIKE DREW via DeTomaso <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>> 
>>    Larry,
>> 
>>  Thank you for that. I failed to note that Summit was listing the  
>> `substitute' thermostat in place of the proper one. At first glance,  
>> they don't seem to carry the standard Cleveland replacement.  There 
>> is  more to the story however.
>> 
>>  Robertshaw does still make and sell the proper unit, with the 
>> original  BRA 333-180 part number. Here is the direct link:
>> 
>>  [1]Robertshaw 333 Series hi flow balanced sleeve thermostat  
>> [2]flowkoolerwaterpumps.com  
>> [3]robertshaw_333_series_thermostats_351c_400m_351_grande.jpg
>>  It seems that the `substitute' unit assembly consists of a regular  
>> Windsor thermostat (without the hat) and a bypass plate with a 
>> smaller  orifice intended to allow proper function with it. They also 
>> list that  on their website.
>> 
>>  The description of the Flowkooler website link above for the BRA
>>  333-180 specifies that it is the proper size, and the part drawing  
>> measurements confirm this.  Their description says,
>> 
>>  ` The OE Robertshaw thermostats for the OE bypass is available again.
>>  It's made in the USA.  Yes this is a real Robertshaw 333 series. '
>> 
>>   I have several of them in hand, both old and new, as well as Ford 
>> and  other aftermarket units and they all have the same 11/16" `hat' 
>> pressed  onto the end.
>> 
>>  I still maintain that the right answer is to just buy the right  
>> thermostat rather than the hokey substitute design.
>> 
>>  Interestingly, on their website Flowkooler/Robertshaw only lists the  
>> `substitute' unit as an assembly, with the thermostat and associated  
>> smaller bypass plate together in a single box. They don't list that  
>> thermostat alone (at least not labelled as such) on their website.
>> 
>>  It could very well be that Summit has simply goofed up the title, as  
>> the part number they have listed for the unit they describe in the  
>> title as a stand-alone small-diameter `substitute' model, is in fact  
>> the BRA 333-180 part number for the normal, standard replacement 351C  
>> unit.
>> 
>>  The only way to find out is to order one, and as I'm already buried  
>> with them I'll let somebody else make that experiment. I'd be willing  
>> to bet that if you ordered the BRA 333-180 from Summit you would  
>> receive a correct one, and not the `substitute' minus the plate.
>> 
>>  The other alternative is to just order the correct one directly from  
>> Flowkooler using the link above.  You could also order it from TMeyer.
>>  I have had a TMeyer unit pass through my hands recently and it was 
>> just  a regular Robertshaw 333-180. It seems he is either buying them 
>> from  Flowkooler, or from the manufacturer that Flowkooler uses 
>> (that's what  he is claiming on his website):
>> 
>>  ` This is the identical thermostat as the famous "Robertshaw 333-"
>>  thermostats. The Track Boss thermostat is manufactured by the same  
>> company that currently makes the current Robertshaw thermostats.'
>> 
>>  When Flowkooler initially discontinued this line several years ago I  
>> bought and resold their entire existing inventory, at cost. At that  
>> time, they told me they were being made for them by a company in  
>> Mexico, and Flowkooler management had decided to stop supporting the  
>> 351C. I believe TMeyer then contracted with the Mexicans to supply 
>> him  directly, and now it appears Flowkooler has changed their minds 
>> and is  also buying and selling them once more, from the same source.
>> 
>>  Thanks for causing me to research this further!
>> 
>>  Mike
>> 
>>  Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>    On May 13, 2023, at 12:54, Larry Finch via DeTomaso
>>    <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  All,
>>  This is VERY important!!!!
>>  The thermostat at Summit recommended by Mike Drew is NOT the correct  
>> thermostat for the OEM brass bypass plate installed in a stock  
>> Cleveland!!!
>>  This is the link shared by Mike:
>>  <image3.jpeg>
>>  You can visit the flowcooler website for more details, but I will 
>> give  you the basics of what they have done.
>>  In the Flowcooler website description, they share how they 
>> discontinued  the 333 Cleveland-correct series of thermostats due to 
>> low demand. Once  they found Pantera owner Marlin was machining the 
>> proper hat to add to  the 330 series (making it a 333 series) and he 
>> was machining correct  replacement bypass plates, flowcooler decided 
>> they would get back into  the game and make their own money.
>>  What is being sold by Summit racing is labeled as a SUBSTITUTE. It 
>> is  called a substitute because it is NOT CORRECT for an OEM 
>> Cleveland  bypass plate. It is designed to only work properly with a 
>> new bypass  plate designed and sold by.....Flowcooler.
>>  What they have done is taken a standard hi-flo 330 series thermostat  
>> (with no hat) and machined a proprietary bypass plate that is matched  
>> to the smaller piston found in their SUBSTITUTE 330-series thermostat.
>>  Note the suffix to the part number is SUB.
>>  The two-part assembly is pictured below. Note how the piston is a 
>> very  tight (too tight???) fit to their proprietary bypass plate  
>> <image1.jpeg>  If you have a stock bypass plate and you install the 
>> SUBSTITUTE  thermostat (with no hat), you will wind up letting too 
>> much coolant  remain inside the engine block and not enough coolant 
>> being sent to the  radiator.
>>  The solution to this problem is very easy.
>>  Order the correct thermostat from Tim Meyer, who showed the 
>> initiative  and invested his time and money to provide the original 
>> and correct  thermostat and he also reproduces the correct OEM bypass plate.
>>  <image2.jpeg>
>>  Flowcooler dropped the ball when they discontinued Cleveland  
>> thermostats, and now back in the game they have only served to muck  
>> things up with their redesigned bypass plate.
>>  Please share this with all the fellow owners you come in contact with.
>>  And do not recommend buying a thermostat - or bypass plate - direct  
>> from flowcooler, summit or jegs or any place other than Tim Meyer.
>>  Larry
>>  Sent from me using a magic, handheld electronic gizmo.
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>> References
>> 
>>  Visible links
>>  1. 
>> https://flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/products/robertshaw-333-180-thermost
>> at  2. 
>> https://flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/products/robertshaw-333-180-thermost
>> at  3. 
>> https://flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/products/robertshaw-333-180-thermost
>> at
>> 
>>  Hidden links:
>>  5. 
>> https://flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/products/robertshaw-333-180-thermost
>> at _______________________________________________
>> 
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