[DeTomaso] Odd problem - Current source for Cleveland T-stat?
jderyke at aol.com
jderyke at aol.com
Sat May 13 17:32:41 EDT 2023
FWIW, until I did the new Fluidyne aluminum radiator swap (from a Detroit Radiator brass clone of the OEM) into my stock rad-frame, I was getting about a year or maybe 5000 miles from an OEM-type thermostat before it exhibited unstable behavior. I added the big Fluidyne and burped it several times, then let the thing set overnight. That morning, I burped it again and Judy & I left for Las Vegas- a 450-mile trip from Sunnyvale near San Jose CA.
The car ran flawlessly at 190-200F with only a few bursts to triple digit speeds. After supper in the 'Vegas parking garage, I burped the thing AGAIN and got a little more air! We had fun at the 3-day Fun Rally, then drove over to an old autocross friend's home in Pahrump (about 50 miles) and spent the day & evening with them. The next day before we left for home, I burped the rad a SIXTH time and got no air- finally! So don't think it's a simple process or some magic doo-hicky will quickly de-aerate your coolant in a Pantera! Just keep at it until you finally succeed. YMMV- J DeRyke
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike & Elizabeth <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
To: 'Christopher Kimball' <ChrisVKimball at msn.com>; 'Julian Kift' <julian_kift at hotmail.com>; 'Forest Goodhart' <forestg at att.net>; 'MIKE DREW' <mikeldrew at aol.com>
Cc: 'Pantera Owners Club of America' <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sat, May 13, 2023 1:15 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Odd problem - Current source for Cleveland T-stat?
We'll need to source the correct T-stat in case that is the issue. Chris,
you'll also need to get three gallons of your coolant of choice so we can
refill and burp the system. Also drain pans and plastic bottles of some
type to drain the coolant into. We won't need to completely drain the
system, just enough to pull the pipe off of the T-stat to see if there is an
issue. You will also need a T-stat gasket, should come with a new unit.
Who sources the correct T-stat for a Cleveland these days?
Mike Thomas
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On Behalf Of
Christopher Kimball
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 9:40 PM
To: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Forest Goodhart
<forestg at att.net>; MIKE DREW <mikeldrew at aol.com>
Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Odd problem
That makes sense. A couple of guys from PNW are coming over a week from
tomorrow to help me remove the thermostat so I can determine what kind I
need to get to replace it. We'll also look at why the passenger door no
longer opens from the outside...
I just hate having to keep asking for help from everyone all the time.
Thank you!
Sincerely,
Chris
________________________________
From: Julian Kift <julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 7:30 PM
To: Christopher Kimball <ChrisVKimball at msn.com>; Forest Goodhart
<forestg at att.net>; MIKE DREW <mikeldrew at aol.com>
Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Odd problem
So, it may all be working as designed and we are trying to find a solution
to a problem that doesn't exist.....
What is your thermostat rating? If the thermostat is 185F, it sounds like
the gauge in the block is reading the correct temperature, then once the
thermostat opens it allows a rush of cooler coolant and the gauges typically
drop. If the second fan thermostatic switch is 185F as original the second
fan might not come on as the coolant in the radiator is being cooled and
slightly colder.
Julian
________________________________
From: DeTomaso <detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf of
Christopher Kimball <ChrisVKimball at msn.com>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 5:51 PM
To: Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net>; MIKE DREW <mikeldrew at aol.com>
Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Odd problem
Ah, that's good information! The 1st fan turned on, the 2nd one however
didn't.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S9+, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Forest Goodhart <forestg at att.net>
Date: 5/12/23 5:42 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: MIKE DREW <mikeldrew at aol.com>, Christopher Kimball
<ChrisVKimball at msn.com>
Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Odd problem
Chris,
The fan sensors are located in the radiator. If the T stat is stuck closed
the hot coolant is trapped in the engine and does not make it to the
radiator and sensors, thus no fan.
Forest
On Friday, May 12, 2023 at 05:32:05 PM PDT, Christopher Kimball
<chrisvkimball at msn.com> wrote:
I have heard stories such as that, and that's one of the reasons why I
added that 2nd gauge because the stock gauge goes to the swirl tank
which always seems silly to me for the very reasons you state!
The gauge going to the block was reading higher than it normally does,
however. At normal times the block gauge never goes above 160 or 170.
This time it was above 185 and appeared to be climbing. Someone said a
stuck thermostat could be the problem, and that seems to be a good
idea, but it doesn't explain why my 2nd radiator fan didn't come on.
What is the best way to check to see if a radiator fan is going to
turn on when it should? Do I just let the car sit in the driveway and
idle until the gauge gets really hot and if the fan hasn't turned on
then I know the little sensor isn't working? Or is there a more
effective way? Thank you for your help.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S9+, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable
smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: MIKE DREW <mikeldrew at aol.com<mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com>>
Date: 5/12/23 5:22 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: Christopher Kimball
<chrisvkimball at msn.com<mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com>>
Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America
<detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Odd problem
Chris,
Is your primary sender still located in the pressure tank?
You say the secondary sender is on the block and that gauge was reading
normal at all times. I would regard that one as Truth and the
fluctuating one as Rumor.
What's your water level like?
When I first got my Pantera I drove it down to Jack DeRyke's house. On
the way I noticed the temp gauge rising alarmingly, but then it came
down again. Then it went way down, and then the motor started rattling
and steam came out, so I pulled over on the freeway.
Mike DeRyke came ti the rescue with a 5-gallon can of water. We topped
it off, I drove a but further, topped it off again etc until I got to
their house.
A hose clamp had come loose and one of the radiator hoses under the car
had partially come off. It was a simple matter to put it back into
place and tighten it up and then refill the system. But it showed me
the value of having the e gone temperature measured on the engine, not
the bottle. As the fluid level dropped the car started overheating
which reflected on the gauge. As it further dropped, the tank became
empty and themselves started reading ambient air temperature which is
why the gauge fell. In the meantime the engine was cooking itself.
Lucky it started steaming and rattling before it just blew up entirely!
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On May 12, 2023, at 14:53, Christopher Kimball
<chrisvkimball at msn.com<mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi folks, a funny thing happened on the way to the Rotary meeting.
My
> car's heat gauge began to show hotter and hotter and was in the red
> pretty deep. The secondary gauge I have installed which comes from
the
> block showed the temperature getting to about 185 or so. My first
fan
> kicked on, but the 2nd fan never did. Normally it comes on shortly
> after the first one. I don't know if the gages were reading
> incorrectly or what, but it seemed as though the gauges were
continuing
> to climb.
>
> On my way home the same thing happened until about half way home
when
> all of a sudden both gauges dropped down to their normal range. Any
> ideas?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S9+, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable
> smartphone
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
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-------------- next part --------------
FWIW, until I did the new Fluidyne aluminum radiator swap (from a
Detroit Radiator brass clone of the OEM) into my stock rad-frame, I was
getting about a year or maybe 5000 miles from an OEM-type thermostat
before it exhibited unstable behavior. I added the big Fluidyne and
burped it several times, then let the thing set overnight. That
morning, I burped it again and Judy & I left for Las Vegas- a 450-mile
trip from Sunnyvale near San Jose CA.
The car ran flawlessly at 190-200F with only a few bursts to triple
digit speeds. After supper in the 'Vegas parking garage, I burped the
thing AGAIN and got a little more air! We had fun at the 3-day Fun
Rally, then drove over to an old autocross friend's home in Pahrump
(about 50 miles) and spent the day & evening with them. The next day
before we left for home, I burped the rad a SIXTH time and got no air-
finally! So don't think it's a simple process or some magic doo-hicky
will quickly de-aerate your coolant in a Pantera! Just keep at it until
you finally succeed. YMMV- J DeRyke
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike & Elizabeth <mbefthomas2 at gmail.com>
To: 'Christopher Kimball' <ChrisVKimball at msn.com>; 'Julian Kift'
<julian_kift at hotmail.com>; 'Forest Goodhart' <forestg at att.net>; 'MIKE
DREW' <mikeldrew at aol.com>
Cc: 'Pantera Owners Club of America' <detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Sent: Sat, May 13, 2023 1:15 pm
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Odd problem - Current source for Cleveland
T-stat?
We'll need to source the correct T-stat in case that is the issue.
Chris,
you'll also need to get three gallons of your coolant of choice so we
can
refill and burp the system. Also drain pans and plastic bottles of
some
type to drain the coolant into. We won't need to completely drain the
system, just enough to pull the pipe off of the T-stat to see if there
is an
issue. You will also need a T-stat gasket, should come with a new
unit.
Who sources the correct T-stat for a Cleveland these days?
Mike Thomas
-----Original Message-----
From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> On Behalf
Of
Christopher Kimball
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 9:40 PM
To: Julian Kift <[2]julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Forest Goodhart
<[3]forestg at att.net>; MIKE DREW <[4]mikeldrew at aol.com>
Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America
<[5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Odd problem
That makes sense. A couple of guys from PNW are coming over a week
from
tomorrow to help me remove the thermostat so I can determine what kind
I
need to get to replace it. We'll also look at why the passenger door
no
longer opens from the outside...
I just hate having to keep asking for help from everyone all the time.
Thank you!
Sincerely,
Chris
________________________________
From: Julian Kift <[6]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 7:30 PM
To: Christopher Kimball <[7]ChrisVKimball at msn.com>; Forest Goodhart
<[8]forestg at att.net>; MIKE DREW <[9]mikeldrew at aol.com>
Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America
<[10]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Odd problem
So, it may all be working as designed and we are trying to find a
solution
to a problem that doesn't exist.....
What is your thermostat rating? If the thermostat is 185F, it sounds
like
the gauge in the block is reading the correct temperature, then once
the
thermostat opens it allows a rush of cooler coolant and the gauges
typically
drop. If the second fan thermostatic switch is 185F as original the
second
fan might not come on as the coolant in the radiator is being cooled
and
slightly colder.
Julian
________________________________
From: DeTomaso <[11]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on behalf
of
Christopher Kimball <[12]ChrisVKimball at msn.com>
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2023 5:51 PM
To: Forest Goodhart <[13]forestg at att.net>; MIKE DREW
<[14]mikeldrew at aol.com>
Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America
<[15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Odd problem
Ah, that's good information! The 1st fan turned on, the 2nd one
however
didn't.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S9+, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable
smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Forest Goodhart <[16]forestg at att.net>
Date: 5/12/23 5:42 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: MIKE DREW <[17]mikeldrew at aol.com>, Christopher Kimball
<[18]ChrisVKimball at msn.com>
Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America
<[19]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Odd problem
Chris,
The fan sensors are located in the radiator. If the T stat is stuck
closed
the hot coolant is trapped in the engine and does not make it to the
radiator and sensors, thus no fan.
Forest
On Friday, May 12, 2023 at 05:32:05 PM PDT, Christopher Kimball
<[20]chrisvkimball at msn.com> wrote:
I have heard stories such as that, and that's one of the reasons why
I
added that 2nd gauge because the stock gauge goes to the swirl tank
which always seems silly to me for the very reasons you state!
The gauge going to the block was reading higher than it normally
does,
however. At normal times the block gauge never goes above 160 or 170.
This time it was above 185 and appeared to be climbing. Someone said
a
stuck thermostat could be the problem, and that seems to be a good
idea, but it doesn't explain why my 2nd radiator fan didn't come on.
What is the best way to check to see if a radiator fan is going to
turn on when it should? Do I just let the car sit in the driveway and
idle until the gauge gets really hot and if the fan hasn't turned on
then I know the little sensor isn't working? Or is there a more
effective way? Thank you for your help.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S9+, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable
smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: MIKE DREW <[21]mikeldrew at aol.com<mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com>>
Date: 5/12/23 5:22 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: Christopher Kimball
<[22]chrisvkimball at msn.com<mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com>>
Cc: Pantera Owners Club of America
<[23]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com<mailto:detomaso at server.detomasoli
st.com>>
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Odd problem
Chris,
Is your primary sender still located in the pressure tank?
You say the secondary sender is on the block and that gauge was
reading
normal at all times. I would regard that one as Truth and the
fluctuating one as Rumor.
What's your water level like?
When I first got my Pantera I drove it down to Jack DeRyke's house.
On
the way I noticed the temp gauge rising alarmingly, but then it came
down again. Then it went way down, and then the motor started
rattling
and steam came out, so I pulled over on the freeway.
Mike DeRyke came ti the rescue with a 5-gallon can of water. We
topped
it off, I drove a but further, topped it off again etc until I got to
their house.
A hose clamp had come loose and one of the radiator hoses under the
car
had partially come off. It was a simple matter to put it back into
place and tighten it up and then refill the system. But it showed me
the value of having the e gone temperature measured on the engine,
not
the bottle. As the fluid level dropped the car started overheating
which reflected on the gauge. As it further dropped, the tank became
empty and themselves started reading ambient air temperature which is
why the gauge fell. In the meantime the engine was cooking itself.
Lucky it started steaming and rattling before it just blew up
entirely!
Mike
Sent from my iPad
> On May 12, 2023, at 14:53, Christopher Kimball
<[24]chrisvkimball at msn.com<mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi folks, a funny thing happened on the way to the Rotary
meeting.
My
> car's heat gauge began to show hotter and hotter and was in the
red
> pretty deep. The secondary gauge I have installed which comes from
the
> block showed the temperature getting to about 185 or so. My first
fan
> kicked on, but the 2nd fan never did. Normally it comes on
shortly
> after the first one. I don't know if the gages were reading
> incorrectly or what, but it seemed as though the gauges were
continuing
> to climb.
>
> On my way home the same thing happened until about half way home
when
> all of a sudden both gauges dropped down to their normal range.
Any
> ideas?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S9+, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable
> smartphone
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
> Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
> DeTomaso mailing list
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References
1. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
2. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
3. mailto:forestg at att.net
4. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
5. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
6. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
7. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
8. mailto:forestg at att.net
9. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
10. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
11. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
12. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
13. mailto:forestg at att.net
14. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
15. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. mailto:forestg at att.net
17. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
18. mailto:ChrisVKimball at msn.com
19. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
20. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
21. mailto:mikeldrew at aol.com
22. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
23. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
24. mailto:chrisvkimball at msn.com
25. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
26. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detom
27. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listi
28. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
29. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fserver.detom
30. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listi
31. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
32. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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