[DeTomaso] Techno question: Windsor engines and Pantera headers

[Mike Drew]

   Chuck,

   Ah, I didn't realize you were having an issue like that. Certainly you
   should be able to get the bolt head where it needs to go. It sounds
   like the welder got a bit rambunctious and there is a glob of weld
   blocking access?  If so, a bit of judicious grinding or filing should
   take care of it?  I seem to recall also resorting to some quality time
   with a hammer and a punch to distort the header tube near the flange to
   allow proper access on one of them.

   Mike
   Sent from my iPad

     On Jul 21, 2023, at 10:52, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:

   Dear Mike and Larry,


                   Good news: you're right.  ARP does make those 5/16ths
   inch wrench-size bolts.


                   Bad news: the bolt head flange is still, according to
   ARP tech,  1/2" diameter.


                    Good news: it is better than the current bolts.
   Progress


                               Thanks,  Chuck Engles


   From: Mike Drew [mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com]
   Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 8:41 PM
   To: Charles Engles
   Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
   Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: Windsor engines and Pantera
   headers


   Chuck,


   You don't have a header problem. You have a header BOLT problem.


   Wise people will heave their standard header boots over a hedge and
   replace them with ARP bolts which have a 3/8 inch shank but use a
   smaller 5/16 wrench. This makes a massive difference.


                               <image001.jpg>

   [1]ARP 100-1110 ARP Chromoly Header Bolt Kits

   [2]summitracing.com



   Having said that, the Windsor headers are constructed such that if you
   are incautious with installation, and cinch down certain bolts before
   having inserted other bolts, you then can't get the remaining bolts
   started. As a general rule, you feed the bolts through the holes on the
   inside of the pipe bends first. Get all those bolts started in the
   threads, then tighten them down (loosely).


   Then install the bolts on the outside of the bends, tighten them down
   loosely. Tighten the inside bolts fully then the outside ones.


   Having studs and nuts on two holes on each side is a good idea. They
   need to be outside-the-bend holes as the nuts are, if memory serves,
   7/16 or maybe even 1/2.


   Cheers!


   Mike


   Sent from my iPhone

   On Jul 20, 2023, at 20:55, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:

     Dear Forum,
                  All of my Pantera experience has been with Clevelands.
     Currently, I am working on my brother's Pantera with a 427 Windsor
     stroker in it.  I have just removed the headers and observed that
   while
     the access to the exhaust bolts was not bad, the problem was very
     little clearance between the proximal primary tube and the hex bolt
     head.
                 Several of the bolts required slow, tedious removal with
     approximately 1/6 to 1/12^th  of a turn needed to remove it.
                 I had an appropriately sized socket head bolt and it had
     the same interference issues as the hex bolt.
                 I tried an exhaust stud, but.....the twelve point small
     7/16^th inch nuts had the same fitment issues.
                 The headers are from P.I. M.
                  Can Windsor powered Pantera owners tell me if this is
     inherent with Windsor engines and Pantera headers or are there better
     headers out there?
                             Curious,  Chuck Englesl
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References

   1. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-1110
   2. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-1110