[DeTomaso] Techno question: Windsor engines and Pantera headers
Charles Engles
cengles at cox.net
Fri Jul 21 10:52:14 EDT 2023
Dear Mike and Larry,
Good news: you’re right. ARP does make those 5/16ths inch wrench-size bolts.
Bad news: the bolt head flange is still, according to ARP tech, ½” diameter.
Good news: it is better than the current bolts. Progress
Thanks, Chuck Engles
From: Mike Drew [mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 8:41 PM
To: Charles Engles
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: Windsor engines and Pantera headers
Chuck,
You don’t have a header problem. You have a header BOLT problem.
Wise people will heave their standard header boots over a hedge and replace them with ARP bolts which have a 3/8 inch shank but use a smaller 5/16 wrench. This makes a massive difference.
arp-100-1110_xl.jpg
<https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-1110> ARP 100-1110 ARP Chromoly Header Bolt Kits
<https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-1110> summitracing.com
Having said that, the Windsor headers are constructed such that if you are incautious with installation, and cinch down certain bolts before having inserted other bolts, you then can’t get the remaining bolts started. As a general rule, you feed the bolts through the holes on the inside of the pipe bends first. Get all those bolts started in the threads, then tighten them down (loosely).
Then install the bolts on the outside of the bends, tighten them down loosely. Tighten the inside bolts fully then the outside ones.
Having studs and nuts on two holes on each side is a good idea. They need to be outside-the-bend holes as the nuts are, if memory serves, 7/16 or maybe even 1/2.
Cheers!
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 20, 2023, at 20:55, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
Dear Forum,
All of my Pantera experience has been with Clevelands.
Currently, I am working on my brother's Pantera with a 427 Windsor
stroker in it. I have just removed the headers and observed that while
the access to the exhaust bolts was not bad, the problem was very
little clearance between the proximal primary tube and the hex bolt
head.
Several of the bolts required slow, tedious removal with
approximately 1/6 to 1/12^th of a turn needed to remove it.
I had an appropriately sized socket head bolt and it had
the same interference issues as the hex bolt.
I tried an exhaust stud, but.....the twelve point small
7/16^th inch nuts had the same fitment issues.
The headers are from P.I. M.
Can Windsor powered Pantera owners tell me if this is
inherent with Windsor engines and Pantera headers or are there better
headers out there?
Curious, Chuck Englesl
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Dear Mike and Larry,
Good news: you're right. ARP does make those 5/16ths
inch wrench-size bolts.
Bad news: the bolt head flange is still, according to
ARP tech, 1/2" diameter.
Good news: it is better than the current bolts.
Progress
Thanks, Chuck Engles
From: Mike Drew [mailto:MikeLDrew at aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2023 8:41 PM
To: Charles Engles
Cc: detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Techno question: Windsor engines and Pantera
headers
Chuck,
You don't have a header problem. You have a header BOLT problem.
Wise people will heave their standard header boots over a hedge and
replace them with ARP bolts which have a 3/8 inch shank but use a
smaller 5/16 wrench. This makes a massive difference.
arp-100-1110_xl.jpg
[1]ARP 100-1110 ARP Chromoly Header Bolt Kits
[2]summitracing.com
Having said that, the Windsor headers are constructed such that if you
are incautious with installation, and cinch down certain bolts before
having inserted other bolts, you then can't get the remaining bolts
started. As a general rule, you feed the bolts through the holes on the
inside of the pipe bends first. Get all those bolts started in the
threads, then tighten them down (loosely).
Then install the bolts on the outside of the bends, tighten them down
loosely. Tighten the inside bolts fully then the outside ones.
Having studs and nuts on two holes on each side is a good idea. They
need to be outside-the-bend holes as the nuts are, if memory serves,
7/16 or maybe even 1/2.
Cheers!
Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 20, 2023, at 20:55, Charles Engles <cengles at cox.net> wrote:
Dear Forum,
All of my Pantera experience has been with Clevelands.
Currently, I am working on my brother's Pantera with a 427 Windsor
stroker in it. I have just removed the headers and observed that
while
the access to the exhaust bolts was not bad, the problem was very
little clearance between the proximal primary tube and the hex bolt
head.
Several of the bolts required slow, tedious removal with
approximately 1/6 to 1/12^th of a turn needed to remove it.
I had an appropriately sized socket head bolt and it had
the same interference issues as the hex bolt.
I tried an exhaust stud, but.....the twelve point small
7/16^th inch nuts had the same fitment issues.
The headers are from P.I. M.
Can Windsor powered Pantera owners tell me if this is
inherent with Windsor engines and Pantera headers or are there better
headers out there?
Curious, Chuck Englesl
_______________________________________________
Detomaso Email List is not managed by POCA
Posted emails must not exceed 1.5 Megabytes
DeTomaso mailing list
DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe, etc.)
use the links above.
Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward any
message posted here to all past, current, or future members of the
list. They also grant the list owner permission to maintain an archive
or approve the archiving of list messages.
References
1. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-1110
2. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-1110
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