[DeTomaso] Tesla Drivers???
Konrad Szwab
kszwab at gmail.com
Sun Sep 4 17:36:00 EDT 2022
They are trying bigger elements than the 18650 but yes, they are somewhat
small elements in series and parallel modules. The internal balancers can
determine which module can be swapped out but still quite a crapshoot.
Batteries suck.
On Sun, Sep 4, 2022, 3:06 PM Ken Green via DeTomaso <
detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
> I have been told that the EV batteries are a bunch of little batteries
> in one housing. The bad batteries can be replaced. If we knew the
> failure mode this would mean a lot more.
>
> On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 10:11:10 AM PDT, Bill Lewis
> <lotus0005 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Will, what does "...the battery pack died...." mean.
> An ICE engine can be rebuilt with new parts, etc. So, the battery
> can't be rebuilt internally?? Maybe they will invent a new "potion"
> to
> pour into the battery? Possibly, that will be a whole new local
> industry, like a local auto repair shop?
> That is a lot of miles on a car, by the way! ---BILL L
> __________________________________________________________________
> From: DeTomaso <[1]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
> behalf of
> Will Kooiman <[2]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2022 12:38 PM
> To: Julian Kift <[3]julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Konrad Szwab
> <[4]kszwab at gmail.com>; Detomaso List
> <[5]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>;
> Larry Stock <[6]larrys at panteraparts.com>; Ken Green
> <[7]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tesla Drivers???
> The batteries are a real problem.
> My 2001 Honda Insight got 73mpg when it was new. It drove like a
> typical compact.
> The battery pack died at 70K miles. The cost to replace was $4K at
> the
> dealer. I did it myself for $1.2K. As stated, you can buy a lot of
> gas for $1.2K.
> The second battery pack died after another 60K miles. This time I
> replaced it with a "better battery". It was $1K.
> The third battery pack died after another 60K miles. I replaced it
> one
> final time. This one lasted about 50K miles.
> We put 250K miles on the Insight. We loved the car. I just got
> turned
> off at having to change batteries, plus as they age, they take longer
> to charge. That's from my experience, anyway.
> Those doing math realize 70K + 60K + 60K + 50K = 240K. For the other
> 10K, we drove with a dead battery. Yes, you can do that on this type
> of hybrid. The battery only serves as to boost the engine under high
> load situations - acceleration, passing, etc. It's a real turd
> without
> the battery.
> Btw, I don't know if they're still doing it, but there was a company
> that converted Honda Insights to a Honda S2000 drivetrain - and they
> still got 40-45mpg!! So, a big part of the Insight's MPG is the
> aero,
> plus the weight. They were under 2,000 lbs.
> On 9/3/22, 7:56 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Julian Kift"
> <[8]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
> [9]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Although EV batteries are expensive, the invoice is for a
> first-generation Chevy Volt NiMH battery, it's an antique for
> which GM
> no longer supports or manufacturers the battery. If you are
> determined
> to keep an old obsolete antique on the road it can add
> up.....!
> Some of the OEM's are developing swappable cells so there
> won't
> be a
> need to replace the whole unit for a defective cell. The
> average
> modern
> Li-ion battery has 3,500+ charge life, with a range of 400
> miles,
> that's 1.4M miles or 93 years for the average driver of
> 15,000
> miles
> annually.
> Julian
> __________________________________________________________________
> From: DeTomaso <[10]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
> on
> behalf of
> Ken Green via DeTomaso <[11]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2022 3:30 PM
> To: Konrad Szwab <[12]kszwab at gmail.com>; Detomaso List
> <[13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>; Larry Stock
> <[14]larrys at panteraparts.com>
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tesla Drivers???
> You can buy a lot of gas for $27,000:
> On Friday, September 2, 2022 at 01:57:05 PM PDT, Larry
> Stock
> <[15]larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
> I think Electric cars have their place in society just like
> Trucks and
> golf carts do.
> Larry
> On 9/2/22, 1:49 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Konrad Szwab"
> <[16]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
> [17]kszwab at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think electric cars are the way of the future, for
> better or
> worse,
> due to governmental regulation. I hate my cars being
> demonized by
> these
> arrogant "holier than thou" hypocrites, personally,
> although at
> some
> point I do plan to get an electric car just to get used
> to
> it. I
> think
> as commuter cars for going to work they are great and
> that
> is
> about it.
> I still recall about a year ago the pissed off looks a
> Tesla
> driving
> dude was giving me when my now dead truck was idling
> nicely with
> the
> exhaust perfectly placed near his open window at a
> stoplight. The
> V8
> being a straight pipe the noise was an added factor for
> Konrad
> enjoying
> himself being a total ass :)
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 3:42 PM Julian Kift
> <[1][18]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> A A Yes, I see that often now, there's a
> proliferation
> of
> Tesla's
> here in
> A A Reno with the Gigafactory close by.
> A A I drove my first Tesla about a month ago in
> Montreal,
> rental
> cars were
> A A in high demand, and all they had available was a
> Tesla 3.
> Once
> I
> A A figured out the card (key) swipe to make it work
> it
> was
> easy. I
> have to
> A A say that rush and pinning to the seat as you
> press
> the go
> pedal
> hard is
> A A exhilarating, but (and it's a big butt)
> everything
> else
> was
> just
> A A boring, there is literally nothing else to get
> excited
> about,
> it has no
> A A soul, it gets you from A to B in a utilitarian
> there's an
> 'app
> for
> A A that' kind of way. On the interaction side I
> found
> it
> annoying
> more
> A A than anything (in a kind of nagging wife way)
> and I
> ended
> up
> navigating
> A A using my iPhone for a more direct route.
> A A So, to answer your question, I think it's more
> of a
> case
> of the
> only
> A A pleasure one can derive from driving a Tesla is
> the
> instantaneous
> A A torque away from the lights, after that the
> battery
> efficiency
> warning
> A A light comes on and one is chastised into
> fictitiously
> saving
> the planet
> A A once more.
> A A Julian
> A A
> A
> __________________________________________________________________
> A A From: DeTomaso
> <[2][19]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
> behalf of
> A A Corey Price <[3][20]coreyjprice at gmail.com>
> A A Sent: Friday, September 2, 2022 12:52 PM
> A A To: Detomaso List
> <[4][21]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
> A A Subject: [DeTomaso] Tesla Drivers???
> A A So reading about Konrad's unfortunate
> experience,
> he
> mentioned
> A A something about Tesla drivers. I have had
> multiple
> Tesla
> drivers
> A A wanting to race me since I got my Pantera on the
> street.
> The
> first one
> A A was interesting and I let him go, not wanting to
> race on
> the
> street.
> A A The next few got annoying and I wanted nothing
> to
> do with
> that.
> I'll
> A A enjoy my car the way I want to, thank you.
> Anyone
> else
> experienced this
> A A sudden desire of Tesla owners to race you?
> A A Corey
> A A _______________________________________________
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-------------- next part --------------
They are trying bigger elements than the 18650 but yes, they are
somewhat small elements in series and parallel modules. The internal
balancers can determine which module can be swapped out but still quite
a crapshoot.
Batteries suck.
On Sun, Sep 4, 2022, 3:06 PM Ken Green via DeTomaso
<[1]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com> wrote:
A A I have been told that the EV batteries are a bunch of little
batteries
A A in one housing.A The bad batteries can be replaced.A If we
knew the
A A failure mode this would mean a lot more.
A A On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 10:11:10 AM PDT, Bill Lewis
A A <[2]lotus0005 at hotmail.com> wrote:
A A A Will, what does "...the battery pack died...." mean.
A A A An ICE engine can be rebuilt with new parts, etc.A So, the
battery
A A A can't be rebuilt internally?? Maybe they will invent a new
"potion"
A A to
A A A pour into the battery?A Possibly, that will be a whole new
local
A A A industry, like a local auto repair shop?
A A A That is a lot of miles on a car, by the way!A A ---BILL L
A A A
A __________________________________________________________________
A A A From: DeTomaso
<[1][3]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
A A behalf of
A A A Will Kooiman <[2][4]will.kooiman at gmail.com>
A A A Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2022 12:38 PM
A A A To: Julian Kift <[3][5]julian_kift at hotmail.com>; Konrad
Szwab
A A A <[4][6]kszwab at gmail.com>; Detomaso List
A A <[5][7]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>;
A A A Larry Stock <[6][8]larrys at panteraparts.com>; Ken Green
A A <[7][9]kenn_green at yahoo.com>
A A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tesla Drivers???
A A A The batteries are a real problem.
A A A My 2001 Honda Insight got 73mpg when it was new.A It drove
like a
A A A typical compact.
A A A The battery pack died at 70K miles.A The cost to replace
was $4K at
A A the
A A A dealer.A I did it myself for $1.2K.A As stated, you can
buy a lot of
A A A gas for $1.2K.
A A A The second battery pack died after another 60K miles.A This
time I
A A A replaced it with a "better battery".A It was $1K.
A A A The third battery pack died after another 60K miles.A I
replaced it
A A one
A A A final time.A This one lasted about 50K miles.
A A A We put 250K miles on the Insight.A We loved the car.A I
just got
A A turned
A A A off at having to change batteries, plus as they age, they
take longer
A A A to charge.A That's from my experience, anyway.
A A A Those doing math realize 70K + 60K + 60K + 50K = 240K.A For
the other
A A A 10K, we drove with a dead battery.A Yes, you can do that on
this type
A A A of hybrid.A The battery only serves as to boost the engine
under high
A A A load situations - acceleration, passing, etc.A It's a real
turd
A A without
A A A the battery.
A A A Btw, I don't know if they're still doing it, but there was a
company
A A A that converted Honda Insights to a Honda S2000 drivetrain -
and they
A A A still got 40-45mpg!!A So, a big part of the Insight's MPG
is the
A A aero,
A A A plus the weight.A They were under 2,000 lbs.
A A A On 9/3/22, 7:56 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of Julian Kift"
A A A <[8][10]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf
of
A A A [9][11]julian_kift at hotmail.com> wrote:
A A A A A A A Although EV batteries are expensive, the invoice
is for a
A A A A A A A first-generation Chevy Volt NiMH battery, it's
an antique for
A A A which GM
A A A A A A A no longer supports or manufacturers the battery.
If you are
A A A determined
A A A A A A A to keep an old obsolete antique on the road it
can add
A A up.....!
A A A A A A A Some of the OEM's are developing swappable cells
so there
A A won't
A A A be a
A A A A A A A need to replace the whole unit for a defective
cell. The
A A average
A A A modern
A A A A A A A Li-ion battery has 3,500+ charge life, with a
range of 400
A A A miles,
A A A A A A A that's 1.4M miles or 93 years for the average
driver of
A A 15,000
A A A miles
A A A A A A A annually.
A A A A A A A Julian
A A
A __________________________________________________________________
A A A A A A A From: DeTomaso
<[10][12]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com>
A A on
A A A behalf of
A A A A A A A Ken Green via DeTomaso
<[11][13]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
A A A A A A A Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2022 3:30 PM
A A A A A A A To: Konrad Szwab <[12][14]kszwab at gmail.com>;
Detomaso List
A A A A A A A <[13][15]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>;
Larry Stock
A A A A A A A <[14][16]larrys at panteraparts.com>
A A A A A A A Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Tesla Drivers???
A A A A A A A You can buy a lot of gas for $27,000:
A A A A A A A A A On Friday, September 2, 2022 at 01:57:05
PM PDT, Larry
A A Stock
A A A A A A A <[15][17]larrys at panteraparts.com> wrote:
A A A A A A A I think Electric cars have their place in
society just like
A A A Trucks and
A A A A A A A golf carts do.
A A A A A A A Larry
A A A A A A A On 9/2/22, 1:49 PM, "DeTomaso on behalf of
Konrad Szwab"
A A A A A A
A <[16][18]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com on behalf of
A A A A A A A [17][19]kszwab at gmail.com> wrote:
A A A A A A A A A A I think electric cars are the way of
the future, for
A A A better or
A A A A A A A worse,
A A A A A A A A A A due to governmental regulation. I hate
my cars being
A A A demonized by
A A A A A A A these
A A A A A A A A A A arrogant "holier than thou" hypocrites,
personally,
A A A although at
A A A A A A A some
A A A A A A A A A A point I do plan to get an electric car
just to get used
A A to
A A A it. I
A A A A A A A think
A A A A A A A A A A as commuter cars for going to work they
are great and
A A that
A A A is
A A A A A A A about it.
A A A A A A A A A A I still recall about a year ago the
pissed off looks a
A A A Tesla
A A A A A A A driving
A A A A A A A A A A dude was giving me when my now dead
truck was idling
A A A nicely with
A A A A A A A the
A A A A A A A A A A exhaust perfectly placed near his open
window at a
A A A stoplight. The
A A A A A A A V8
A A A A A A A A A A being a straight pipe the noise was an
added factor for
A A A Konrad
A A A A A A A enjoying
A A A A A A A A A A himself being a total ass :)
A A A A A A A A A A On Fri, Sep 2, 2022 at 3:42 PM Julian
Kift
A A A A A A A <[1][18][20]julian_kift at hotmail.com>
A A A A A A A A A A wrote:
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A Yes, I see that often now,
there's a
A A proliferation
A A A of
A A A A A A A Tesla's
A A A A A A A A A A A here in
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A Reno with the Gigafactory
close by.
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A I drove my first Tesla about a
month ago in
A A A Montreal,
A A A A A A A rental
A A A A A A A A A A A cars were
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A in high demand, and all they
had available was a
A A A Tesla 3.
A A A A A A A Once
A A A A A A A A A A A I
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A figured out the card (key)
swipe to make it work
A A it
A A A was
A A A A A A A easy. I
A A A A A A A A A A A have to
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A say that rush and pinning to
the seat as you
A A press
A A A the go
A A A A A A A pedal
A A A A A A A A A A A hard is
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A exhilarating, but (and it's a
big butt)
A A everything
A A A else
A A A A A A A was
A A A A A A A A A A A just
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A boring, there is literally
nothing else to get
A A A excited
A A A A A A A about,
A A A A A A A A A A A it has no
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A soul, it gets you from A to B
in a utilitarian
A A A there's an
A A A A A A A 'app
A A A A A A A A A A A for
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A that' kind of way. On the
interaction side I
A A found
A A A it
A A A A A A A annoying
A A A A A A A A A A A more
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A than anything (in a kind of
nagging wife way)
A A and I
A A A ended
A A A A A A A up
A A A A A A A A A A A navigating
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A using my iPhone for a more
direct route.
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A So, to answer your question, I
think it's more
A A of a
A A A case
A A A A A A A of the
A A A A A A A A A A A only
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A pleasure one can derive from
driving a Tesla is
A A the
A A A A A A A A A A A instantaneous
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A torque away from the lights,
after that the
A A battery
A A A A A A A efficiency
A A A A A A A A A A A warning
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A light comes on and one is
chastised into
A A A fictitiously
A A A A A A A saving
A A A A A A A A A A A the planet
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A once more.
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A Julian
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A
A A A A A A A A A A A A
A A
A __________________________________________________________________
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A From: DeTomaso
A A A A A A
A <[2][19][21]detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com> on
A A A A A A A A A A A behalf of
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A Corey Price
<[3][20][22]coreyjprice at gmail.com>
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A Sent: Friday, September 2,
2022 12:52 PM
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A To: Detomaso List
A A A <[4][21][23]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com>
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A Subject: [DeTomaso] Tesla
Drivers???
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A So reading about Konrad's
unfortunate
A A experience,
A A A he
A A A A A A A mentioned
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A something about Tesla drivers.
I have had
A A multiple
A A A Tesla
A A A A A A A A A A A drivers
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A wanting to race me since I got
my Pantera on the
A A A street.
A A A A A A A The
A A A A A A A A A A A first one
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A was interesting and I let him
go, not wanting to
A A A race on
A A A A A A A the
A A A A A A A A A A A street.
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A The next few got annoying and
I wanted nothing
A A to
A A A do with
A A A A A A A that.
A A A A A A A A A A A I'll
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A enjoy my car the way I want
to, thank you.
A A Anyone
A A A else
A A A A A A A A A A A experienced this
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A sudden desire of Tesla owners
to race you?
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A Corey
A A A A A A A A A A A AA A
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A 11. mailto:[103]detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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A 66.
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_______________________________________________
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[165]DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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To manage your subscription (change email address, unsubscribe,
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Members who post to this list grant license to the list to forward
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References
1. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
2. mailto:lotus0005 at hotmail.com
3. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
4. mailto:will.kooiman at gmail.com
5. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
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7. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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9. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
10. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
11. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
12. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
13. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
14. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
15. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
16. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
17. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
18. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
19. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
20. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
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23. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
24. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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60. http://ver.detomasolist.com/
61. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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67. http://rver.detomasolist.com/
68. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
69. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
70. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
71. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
72. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
73. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
74. mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com
75. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
76. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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92. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
93. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
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95. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
96. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
97. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
98. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
99. mailto:kenn_green at yahoo.com
100. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
101. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
102. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
103. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
104. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
105. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
106. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
107. mailto:larrys at panteraparts.com
108. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
109. mailto:kszwab at gmail.com
110. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
111. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
112. mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com
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118. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
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120. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
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122. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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129. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
130. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
131. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
132. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
133. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
134. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
135. mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com
136. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
137. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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141. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
142. https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fse
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145. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
146. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
147. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
148. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
149. mailto:julian_kift at hotmail.com
150. mailto:detomaso-bounces at server.detomasolist.com
151. mailto:coreyjprice at gmail.com
152. mailto:detomaso at server.detomasolist.com
153. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
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161. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
162. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
163. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
164. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
165. mailto:DeTomaso at server.detomasolist.com
166. http://server.detomasolist.com/mailman/listinfo/detomaso
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